Girl, Four years younger than me is it a no-go?

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Moog
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05 Nov 2010, 2:14 pm

3 words. Bovine Growth Hormone.

Argue it all you like lads and ladies. The fact is that most people would consider it weird; you'll probably be suspected of being a pedophile and probably treated like one.

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Janissy
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05 Nov 2010, 2:22 pm

emlion wrote:

Asp-Z wrote:

emlion wrote:

Asp-Z wrote:

emlion wrote:

Bluntly? A 17 year old will (generally) want sex and a 13 year old isn't mentally or physically ready for that.

Oh, that's your problem with it.

I disagree about a 13 year not being mentally or physically ready, though obviously it'd be illegal in most countries (there are a few exceptions, Spain being one).

But if you think 13 year olds don't get up to things sexually, you're ignorant.

You think a 13 year old is physically ready for sex? How so?

& I don't think many 13 year olds are sexually active, or even aware.
Well shown by this site many members up to 30 years old aren't even doing things sexually.
Children are still innocent at 13 for the most part.
I wholeheartedly believe this. And call me ignorant if you want.

How are they not?

And ha, you're out of touch with reality if that's what you really believe. Honestly, by 13, most teenagers may not be sexually active (though many certainly want to be), but they are 100% aware of it all and, if they're lucky, they'll be exploring their sexuality somehow.

Well sex is for making babies and babies cannot be made until periods begin and they've not begun in most 13 year olds. Not ready. Also - i'm not sure if this would be true or not but surely they'd be pretty tiny down there at 13?

We're clearly not going to agree on this - but I feel like you're almost mocking me for thinking that 13 year olds have some innocence left.

When I was 13 I had no interest in boys - too busy having fun with dolls and playing tea parties and what not. Still very much at the 'ewww boys' stage. Much like some of my friends children are at now.
Then when I was 14, i had no choice in the matter, but i'm well aware thats not an issue, luckily, for most children.

But i'm going to stop contributing now as I feel uncomfortable with this discussion and with your kind of mocking attitude to me (with the 'ha' in your last post mostly and calling me ignorant.)

Unfortunately, periods actually have begun in most 13 year olds. And that's part of the problem. Most 13 year old girls are capable of getting pregnant but not capable of raising a baby and probably only marginally capable of using birth control properly. I do agree with you that 13 is much too young and agree with the consent laws that make it legally too young in so many countries. But I disagree that this is because 13 year old girls haven't started puberty yet. Most of them have. So pregnancy is a definate possibility.

Janissy
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05 Nov 2010, 2:25 pm

Moog wrote:

It is alarming. The age of puberty has dropped and there is good reason to suspect this is part of why. When it dropped after cheap, plentiful food but before Bovine Growth Hormone, the drop was attributed to better nutrition. And that makes good sense. But recently it has dropped even more, sometimes as low as 10 and growth hormones in cows and chickens are strong suspects.

Asp-Z
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05 Nov 2010, 2:31 pm

Janissy wrote:

Most 13 year old girls are capable of getting pregnant but not capable of raising a baby and probably only marginally capable of using birth control properly.

Teenagers are more likely to use protection than adults. Source.

menintights
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05 Nov 2010, 2:40 pm

Asp-Z wrote:

If a 30 year old goes out with a 26 year old, it ain't a problem, so why should there be a problem here?

Unfortunately, this is something you won't understand until you're 26...

Quote:

BS, I was in a relationship at 13 year old.

...and this will make it pretty hard for you to see why there's a problem with a relationship between a 13-year-old girl and a 17-year-old boy.

(Disclaimer: I work with middle-school kids, I'm not that out of touch with what they have in mind. I just think they don't know as much as they think they do.)

Last edited by menintights on 05 Nov 2010, 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Asp-Z
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05 Nov 2010, 2:41 pm

menintights wrote:

Asp-Z wrote:

If a 30 year old goes out with a 26 year old, it ain't a problem, so why should there be a problem here?

Unfortunately, this is something you won't understand until you're 26...

Quote:

BS, I was in a relationship at 13 year old.

...and this will make it pretty hard for you to see why there's a problem with a relationship between a 13-year-old girl and a 17-year-old boy.

Instead of saying "you won't understand", how's about explaining and making some actual points, eh?

menintights
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05 Nov 2010, 2:45 pm

Your lack of life experience and your still-in-progress brain just won't allow us to converse on the same level, sorry.

Asp-Z
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05 Nov 2010, 2:47 pm

menintights wrote:

I have no real points, so I'll take a cheap shot at you involving your age. Because you're younger than me, so I think I'm superior.

Fixed.

Janissy
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05 Nov 2010, 2:57 pm

Asp-Z wrote:

Janissy wrote:

Most 13 year old girls are capable of getting pregnant but not capable of raising a baby and probably only marginally capable of using birth control properly.

Teenagers are more likely to use protection than adults. Source.

As they should, since a lot of adult couples are actually trying to have a baby and birth control gets in the way of that.

But this does not mean that a 13 year old is going to be able to use it properly. Two things about your linked article:

1)The teens they interviewed were 14-17, none were 13. Each passing year brings more sense.

2)They lump all the teens together. 17 year olds are more mature and able to handle things properly than 14 year olds but this study just lumps them all together, giving the conclusion that since the 17 year olds are maturely practicing safe sex, then the 14 year olds must be just as mature. But although the study lumps them together, nature doesn't. 17 year olds really are more mature than 14 year olds, and certainly more mature than 13 year olds. In order for a sexual scenario to even be legal for a 13 year old (in most countries), it has to be between two 13 year olds or a 13 and 14 year old. A 17 year old, although mature enough to properly use birth control, had better not use it with the less mature 13 year old or risk arrest.

Last edited by Janissy on 05 Nov 2010, 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Moog
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05 Nov 2010, 2:58 pm

Asp-Z, all your points are technically correct, as far as I can see. But this issue is really all about how people feel about this sort of thing. You can't fight that with pedantry.

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Subotai
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05 Nov 2010, 3:01 pm

Do what you want.

Asp-Z
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05 Nov 2010, 3:05 pm

Janissy wrote:

Asp-Z wrote:

Janissy wrote:

Most 13 year old girls are capable of getting pregnant but not capable of raising a baby and probably only marginally capable of using birth control properly.

Teenagers are more likely to use protection than adults. Source.

As they should, since a lot of adult couples are actually trying to have a baby and birth control gets in the way of that.

But this does not mean that a 13 year old is going to be able to use it properly. Two things about your linked article:

1)The teens they interviewed were 14-17, none were 13. Each passing year brings more sense.

2)They lump all the teens together. 17 year olds are more mature and able to handle things properly than 14 year olds but this study just lumps them all together, giving the conclusion that since the 17 year olds are maturely practicing safe sex, then the 14 year olds must be just as mature. But although the study lumps them together, nature doesn't. 17 year olds really are more mature than 14 year olds, and certainly more mature than 13 year olds. In order for a sexual scenario to even be legal for a 14 year old (in most countries), it has to be between two 13 year olds or a 13 and 14 year old. A 17 year old, although mature enough to properly use birth control, had better not use it with the less mature 13 year old or risk arrest.

Fair points about the study lumping them all together, but if school teaches teenagers about this stuff at 13, they'll learn it at 13 (if they haven't already). That's what happens where I live and it works well IMO.

If the age of consent is over 13, it won't matter what age they are in most places if they're under that age - the consequences will be the same. But in reality, I imagine it's pretty hard to prove that sort of thing in court.

Moog wrote:

Asp-Z, all your points are technically correct, as far as I can see. But this issue is really all about how people feel about this sort of thing. You can't fight that with pedantry.

Well that's irrelevant, isn't it? The facts show there isn't a problem, so what other people think of it doesn't matter at all.

Janissy
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05 Nov 2010, 3:32 pm

Asp-Z wrote:

Moog wrote:

]Asp-Z, all your points are technically correct, as far as I can see. But this issue is really all about how people feel about this sort of thing. You can't fight that with pedantry.

Well that's irrelevant, isn't it? The facts show there isn't a problem, so what other people think of it doesn't matter at all.

Taking this back to the OP, we only have one fact to work with and that is that sex between a 13 year old and a 17 year old is illegal in most countries. The objection to a 17 year old asking out a 13 year old is the very legitimate concern that a 17 year old will want at least some sort of sexual contact and that this is both inappropriate and illegal. The OP may not do that at all. He may be very chaste. But it is a legitimate concern and the one that her parents are most likely to have. Which means that the mere act of asking her out is likely to make them pretty angry with him.

Your other facts aren't helpful to the OP. It isn't relevent if young teens are sexually active and use birth control or at least tell a Trojan interviewer that they do. Those may be facts but they are facts that actually make it more of a problem rather than less. A 13 year old girl may be willing to go along with sexual activity just because she wants to feel older and more independent from her parents and put some distance between herself and childhood. That would lead to a world of hurt for both her and the OP. It's best to just not go there at all which is why I say to the OP, if he's still reading.....

Don't ask her out. Nothing good can come of it and plenty of bad can.

Asp-Z
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05 Nov 2010, 3:39 pm

Janissy wrote:

Asp-Z wrote:

Moog wrote:

]Asp-Z, all your points are technically correct, as far as I can see. But this issue is really all about how people feel about this sort of thing. You can't fight that with pedantry.

Well that's irrelevant, isn't it? The facts show there isn't a problem, so what other people think of it doesn't matter at all.

All of this is the same stuff you can say about a 13 year old who dates another 13 year old...

You also seem to assume that the OP will pressure her into sex. Not only can, as I noted above, the same be said about another 13 year old, but she should simply refuse if he feels that way, and if that is the case (though I doubt it is), the OP isn't a nice person to be with anyway, regardless of age.

OP, ask her out if you like her, it's as simple as that. Ignore adults who try and force their stupid moral standards on you.

blueroses
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05 Nov 2010, 3:46 pm

Moog wrote:

Argue it all you like lads and ladies. The fact is that most people would consider it weird; you'll probably be suspected of being a pedophile and probably treated like one.

Agreed! If a 17 year-old guy had pursued me in any way, shape or form when I was 13, one of my male relatives would have beaten him into a bloody pulp.

Janissy
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05 Nov 2010, 3:55 pm

Asp-Z wrote:

Janissy wrote:

Asp-Z wrote:

Moog wrote:

]Asp-Z, all your points are technically correct, as far as I can see. But this issue is really all about how people feel about this sort of thing. You can't fight that with pedantry.

Well that's irrelevant, isn't it? The facts show there isn't a problem, so what other people think of it doesn't matter at all.

All of this is the same stuff you can say about a 13 year old who dates another 13 year old...]

No. Not the "illegal" part. Age-of-consent laws are written to protect young people from being taken advantage of by older people. Thus they have "same age" exceptions and many have exceptions if the older person is 2 or fewer years older.

Quote:

You also seem to assume that the OP will pressure her into sex.

No. What I said was "The OP may not do that. He may be very chaste." However, her parents will definately assume that. It's part of their job as parents to assume that. They are responsible for protecting her against predators. Fathers generally take this responsibility very seriously and unleash fury that can be quite surprising to the guy who thought it was "no big deal". Whether the OP is chaste or not, her father is not going to be happy at all with him asking her out. Why start out on such a bad foot when there are more age-appropriate girls?

Quote:

Not only can, as I noted above, the same be said about another 13 year old, but she should simply refuse if he feels that way, and if that is the case (though I doubt it is), the OP isn't a nice person to be with anyway, regardless of age.

OP, ask her out if you like her, it's as simple as that. Ignore adults who try and force their stupid moral standards on you.

I'm not trying to force moral standards on the OP. I'm trying to warn him away from a situation where he is likely to get into some sort of trouble or at leat be intensely disliked by her parents. It's just not worth it.

There is probably nobody on earth more emotionally volatile than a 13 year old girl. The risks are not worth the benefits. You don't see any risk. That's fine. But there are risks even if the OP stays chaste, purely due to the emotional volatility of 13 year old girls.

Last edited by Janissy on 05 Nov 2010, 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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