Is love only a biochemical reaction for aspies?

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Bethie
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07 Dec 2010, 3:20 pm

There's nothing to suggest the experience called love is anything other than a biochemical reaction for ANYONE.


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poopylungstuffing
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31 Dec 2010, 6:15 am

So it is unAspieish of me to think of love on more inexplicable and ethereal terms than a simple biochemical reaction. I have replayed in my mind the way it was when my now-boyfriend turned up at my birthday party..and how inexplicably nervous and excited and sorta flattered I was to see him there..even though I had mainly only known him as a somewhat distinctive face and someone who i had seen around but never really spoken to...I had not even clearly made the connection that he was in the Hawaiian band that had played at SHFL once before..at that point...and I wonder why his arrival at that time affected me differently than at any other time I happened to have seen him..and differently from the presence of any of the few other people who were there at the time, when he walked in as I frantically was rushing around trying to get the place ready...I remember sorta waving at him almost involuntarily when he came in..as I am generally not prone to do..and even made a garbled attempt to speak to him for some reason (also unlike me) as he stoically breezed past and took a seat on the back row of theater seats...I missed most of the movies that were being shown..because I was still making food..behind schedule...Then I spotted him once around the snack table getting animal crackers and then he sorta vanished...left early...I noticed after he left that he'd gone...and we more-or-less started corresponding the next day...after I posted a latent compliment to him on something he posted on his facebook wall...(ALSO unlike me)...There are parts of it that I am not completely rationalize...and also...um..well..does this mean that I am biochemically repelled by most other humans...if that thing that transpired that landed me in this here relationship which thus far is happier and more stable than anything I have been in in years...but really made an emotional mess of me in the very beginning....was no more than a biochemical reaction?



poopylungstuffing
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31 Dec 2010, 6:25 am

I guess an arguement in favor of the biochemical thing would be that my cat..who likes only a very few people...for some reason REALLY likes him...as well...while she tends to hiss at and bite most people who try to pet her...So Khali being arguably a basically instinct-driven...albeit..extremely selective animal...has decided that among other humans, this particular human is more likeable than all the other humans who she mostly regards with disdain...and her selective reaction towards him is also purely biochemical... :?



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31 Dec 2010, 6:53 am

I guess another argument in favor of the biochemical thing would be that the clarity of your passion for life is blinding with the most beautiful of colors. I am not a cat, but I can sense that you are very comfortable in your own skin inside and out. If this guy has anything to do with that process - then I wouldn't hiss or snap at him either.

You've came a long way - you deserve the best, and it seems as though you've finally found it. He looks good on you through and through. Biochemical, try oh chemical, die oh chemical or whatever label gets stuck on it, it's nowhere near as strong as the writing on the wall that is so obvious and wonderful to read for real.
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31 Dec 2010, 9:16 am

Alla wrote:
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Absolutely. Just a conglomeration of chemical reactions which at times change the neurological profile and alter your perception of reality for the time being.


Well, at least someone understands my reasoning. With such an understanding of what love it, don't you believe that it is taken waaayyy to seriously? I mean, it is obviously a powerful experience, but when you know the mechanics behind it, does it not loose some of it's magic?


Definitely yes, to everything you said. IMO it is highly overrated especially since we know it's nothing but a play of hormones making us feel elated - but some people seem to be addicted to oxytocin (the "love hormone") and thus thrive on it.

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The common symptoms of love, including sweaty palms, shaky knees and general restlessness, are caused by a natural chemical, Phenylethylamine (commonly dubbed the `love molecule'). Its release from the brain can be triggered from deceptively simple actions like the meeting of the eyes or touching of the hands. Heady emotions, racing pulses and heavy breathing results, and all these are (unfortunately) clinically explained as an overdose of this chemical. A very interesting thing is that chocolate is known to have very high level of this chemical…perhaps that’s the reason why it is considered a perfect gift for valentine. Or for your sweetheart.

The latest discovery is the arrangement of molecules in this chemicals and the whole world is excited because now, like the witches of the yore, we can actually concoct love potions. In other words, mankind could be on its way to isolating the chemical compound and making drugs that can induce these reactions in us, in other words….you take the drug, and you fall in love with the next person you see. Imagine the chaos that the world will face. But the scientists say that as of now, this discovery will be used to find out how it can help in some other chemical reactions, to cure disease or other, more useful pursuits and research (though everyone agrees what can be more useful than making someone fall with in love you!! !!)

At this point of time, research on the phenylethylamine molecule breakthrough could be extremely helpful in testing of chemicals related to mental illness. Parkinson’s disease could be one.

So what are we left with? Explanations, but nothing is still in our hands. What we know about love is still largely out of our control. For instance, infatuation. This is supposedly the first stage of falling in love, an unbearable attraction towards someone. This attraction causes a virtual explosion of nuerochemicals very similar to adrenalin. Assisted by Phenylethylamine (that speeds up the flow of information between cells), dopamine (that makes us glow and feel good), and norepinephrine (that stimulates the production of adrenalin), make our world go round, our eyes sparkle and our heart beat faster. Our entire existence then depends on the sight of the person who triggered these reactions to begin with, and as the addiction to the chemical grows stronger, our attraction becomes greater. At this stage we commit foolish mistakes which are the stuff puppy love stories are made of. Actually it is these three chemicals that combine to give us what we call infatuation. We feel we are energized, often floating on air…and the reason why people who are just falling in love can talk for hours on end… (the same person becomes boring at a later stage).

We can blame our chemicals for everything. We had a list of attributes ready for matching, but we just end up falling in love with the person who possesses none of them…it is , as they say, chemistry. Social obligations, other relationships, sense and sensibility, all take a back seat; our mind soars with these natural drugs. No wonder, a lover and a madman are said to be alike. Scientists also opine that this `clicking’ would be with a person with whom we can identify a parent-child situation. A person who, in our subconscious, will give us back something we feel we lost during our growing up years. For some it is security, for some others, it is warmth, and then others, just a spirit of adventure. This could be the reason why demure, well brought up girls usually fall for wastrels. This subconscious selection of mate gets our phenylethylamines and other chemicals moving. This period when our brain is awash with the love hormones lasts for different durations in different people, between six months to three years. In most of us, it settles down after that. For mercurial people, this high is missed and that’s the reason why they need another temporary high….another relationship, another chemical fix. If these love junkies stay married, they will need new relationships to keep their dope, and sometimes, bigger highs. hence bigger risks.

In this world of chemical signals, humans are not scientifically considered monogamous; we do not fall under the 3% of the species that are monogamous. The species that stick to one mate usually have a rich flow of another chemical called vasopressin, the monogamy chemical. Experiments done with males injected with this chemical brought out all the evidence needed. Isolating males before and after mating showed that before mating, he was indifferent to all females. But 24 hours after mating, he is hooked for life. The jealous husband syndrome sets in too.

Another interesting chemical is oxytoxin, the `cuddling ‘chemical. It promotes the need to be physically held, have close contact with he mate and makes both the sexes more caring. It can be released simply by a lover’s look, smell or even a fantasy.

So much for the chemistry of infatuation. When infatuation subsides, another chemical takes over, which is responsible for intimate relationships. These chemicals are created by endorphins. They make a relationship steadier, intimate, dependable, warm and a great sharing experience. They do not induce a giddy high, but calmness and stability…hence are the reason why people stay married. The longer they are married, the longer two people stay together, because this chemical is addictive. It is endorphins that trigger grief on a spouse’s death or long separation, those yearnings for togetherness. The two types of attachments can be summed up as follows…adrenaline love is being in love with the idea of being in love. While endorphins, we like loving someone.

So much for the magic of love and the realms written on it. It did come out of a bottle after all….and continues to afflict us….generations after generation.



Moog
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31 Dec 2010, 9:31 am

Booyakasha wrote:
some people seem to be addicted to oxytocin (the "love hormone") and thus thrive on it.


If certain theories about autism are correct, then we have less oxytocin than neurotypicals. That could set us up for addiction and compulsion over love.


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31 Dec 2010, 11:53 am

DaWalker wrote:
I guess another argument in favor of the biochemical thing would be that the clarity of your passion for life is blinding with the most beautiful of colors. I am not a cat, but I can sense that you are very comfortable in your own skin inside and out. If this guy has anything to do with that process - then I wouldn't hiss or snap at him either.

You've came a long way - you deserve the best, and it seems as though you've finally found it. He looks good on you through and through. Biochemical, try oh chemical, die oh chemical or whatever label gets stuck on it, it's nowhere near as strong as the writing on the wall that is so obvious and wonderful to read for real.
Real Eyes
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Real
lies

:thumleft:


Nope...not comfortable in skin...inside or out..not comfortable with brain..Tend to withdraw from many facets of life, which are overwhelming ..hence my presence on an AS board and my quantity of posts...He does make me feel balanced though...I feel more normal (in a good way) around him than I tend to otherwise...Since I don't get to be around him extremely often, I have plenty of time in the interim where I am nutters and dysfunctional and having meltdowns left and right...then, I am around him and bling...normal again...I write to him about my episodes..I write to him a lots...but I tend not to have episodes when I am around him....He does not trigger me in ways that compel me to hiss and snap...Buut I can tend to feel very self-conscious around him..likesay when he visits the messy cave o mine, which I am currently moving out of.........My cat crawls into his lap when he visits....which is weird,,,and not something she is prone to do...either that or she wants to sit between us....(this is a cat who has, in the past attacked people without provocation)...she is also prone to run up to him in greeting...and also occasionally walk him to the door when he leaves...
s'funny



poopylungstuffing
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31 Dec 2010, 11:56 am

Moog wrote:
Booyakasha wrote:
some people seem to be addicted to oxytocin (the "love hormone") and thus thrive on it.


If certain theories about autism are correct, then we have less oxytocin than neurotypicals. That could set us up for addiction and compulsion over love.


This part makes sense to me...I am prone to withdrawal symptoms....



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31 Dec 2010, 12:18 pm

Moog wrote:
Booyakasha wrote:
some people seem to be addicted to oxytocin (the "love hormone") and thus thrive on it.


If certain theories about autism are correct, then we have less oxytocin than neurotypicals. That could set us up for addiction and compulsion over love.


Yup though there seems to have been some research done with administering oxytocin to autistic individuals which improved their social reciprocity and cognition:

Quote:
Oxytocin may play a role in autism and may be an effective treatment for autism's repetitive and affiliative behaviors. Oxytocin treatments also resulted in an increased retention of affective speech in adults with autism. Two related studies in adults, in 2003 and 2007, found that oxytocin decreased repetitive behaviors and improved interpretation of emotions. More recently, intranasal administration of oxytocin was found to increase emotion recognition in children as young as 12 who are diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders Oxytocin has also been implicated in the etiology of autism with one report suggesting that autism is correlated with genomic deletion of the gene containing the oxytocin receptor gene (OXTR). Studies involving Caucasian and Finnish samples and Chinese Han families provide support for the relationship of OXTR with autism. Autism may also be associated by an aberrant methylation of OXTR, as reported by Gregory and colleagues. After treatment with inhaled oxytocin, autistic patients exhibit more appropriate social behavior. While this research suggests some promise, further clinical trials of oxytocin are required to demonstrate potential benefit and side effects in the treatment of autism.


but also it has been found that certain learning and memory functions are impaired when it was centrally administered. Also, systemic oxytocin administration can impair memory retrieval in certain aversive memory tasks. It seems that it facilitates learning and memory specifically and only for social information.

http://physrev.physiology.org/content/81/2/629.long

http://psychcentral.com/lib/2008/about-oxytocin/



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31 Dec 2010, 1:29 pm

poopylungstuffing wrote:
My cat crawls into his lap when he visits....which is weird,,,and not something she is prone to do...either that or she wants to sit between us....(this is a cat who has, in the past attacked people without provocation)...she is also prone to run up to him in greeting...and also occasionally walk him to the door when he leaves...
s'funny

Usually my pets have a better judge of character than I do.



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31 Dec 2010, 3:34 pm

I trust her judgement...



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31 Dec 2010, 7:13 pm

Booyakasha wrote:
Moog wrote:
Booyakasha wrote:
some people seem to be addicted to oxytocin (the "love hormone") and thus thrive on it.


If certain theories about autism are correct, then we have less oxytocin than neurotypicals. That could set us up for addiction and compulsion over love.


Yup though there seems to have been some research done with administering oxytocin to autistic individuals which improved their social reciprocity and cognition:

Quote:
Oxytocin may play a role in autism and may be an effective treatment for autism's repetitive and affiliative behaviors. Oxytocin treatments also resulted in an increased retention of affective speech in adults with autism. Two related studies in adults, in 2003 and 2007, found that oxytocin decreased repetitive behaviors and improved interpretation of emotions. More recently, intranasal administration of oxytocin was found to increase emotion recognition in children as young as 12 who are diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders Oxytocin has also been implicated in the etiology of autism with one report suggesting that autism is correlated with genomic deletion of the gene containing the oxytocin receptor gene (OXTR). Studies involving Caucasian and Finnish samples and Chinese Han families provide support for the relationship of OXTR with autism. Autism may also be associated by an aberrant methylation of OXTR, as reported by Gregory and colleagues. After treatment with inhaled oxytocin, autistic patients exhibit more appropriate social behavior. While this research suggests some promise, further clinical trials of oxytocin are required to demonstrate potential benefit and side effects in the treatment of autism.


but also it has been found that certain learning and memory functions are impaired when it was centrally administered. Also, systemic oxytocin administration can impair memory retrieval in certain aversive memory tasks. It seems that it facilitates learning and memory specifically and only for social information.

http://physrev.physiology.org/content/81/2/629.long

http://psychcentral.com/lib/2008/about-oxytocin/


Wow, that is very interesting. Food for thought. Thanks for sharing, Booyakasha.


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31 Dec 2010, 7:37 pm

You're welcome. :)



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31 Dec 2010, 9:07 pm

DaWalker wrote:
poopylungstuffing wrote:
My cat crawls into his lap when he visits....which is weird,,,and not something she is prone to do...either that or she wants to sit between us....(this is a cat who has, in the past attacked people without provocation)...she is also prone to run up to him in greeting...and also occasionally walk him to the door when he leaves...
s'funny

Usually my pets have a better judge of character than I do.


I am a horrid judge of character, and I get hurt all the time because of it...maybe I should run everyone i meet by Renesmee (cat) =^..^= My other cats and my dog are too socially promiscuous :) Nessie is picky...LOL.

~Kate


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31 Dec 2010, 10:50 pm

Even if it is biochemical, it is also biochemical for NTs...maybe not exactly the same, but I only say that because what makes aspies and NTs different is how our brains work. So I wouldn't call it specific to aspies. And I wouldn't say it's only a biochemical reaction for aspies or NTs, because regardless of what is happening in our brain, most people would say they find being in love to be a meaningful experience.

I talked with someone once who thought love was purely biochemistry...however, this person was neurotypical.


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01 Jan 2011, 7:59 pm

Meow101 wrote:
DaWalker wrote:
poopylungstuffing wrote:
My cat crawls into his lap when he visits....which is weird,,,and not something she is prone to do...either that or she wants to sit between us....(this is a cat who has, in the past attacked people without provocation)...she is also prone to run up to him in greeting...and also occasionally walk him to the door when he leaves...
s'funny

Usually my pets have a better judge of character than I do.


I am a horrid judge of character, and I get hurt all the time because of it...maybe I should run everyone i meet by Renesmee (cat) =^..^= My other cats and my dog are too socially promiscuous :) Nessie is picky...LOL.

~Kate


Did you see that movie There's Something About Marry? Mary's grandmother tells her that her dog is a great judge of character & a private investigator who has a thing for Marry overhears that & slips the dog some narcotic so he will be calm :lol: I don't think animals are great judges of character sometimes because some of em just like to be fed or something


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