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Are men not as flirtatious as they used to be

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The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Feb 2011, 6:15 pm

wefunction wrote:
Moog wrote:
What is a man though?


This is a crucial question. If one gets into what determines a man, one must get into what determines a woman. Since too often these two things are poised as opposites, instead of mutually exclusive genders, we end up with a very cisgendered and bigoted mindset. Logically, one would think that aspies and auties would be the first people in line to refuse strict definitions of individuals into groups, signaling out anyone who doesn't conform as "different" or "abnormal".


Funny, I find myself refusing some of those definitions.

I found out ,not very long ago, that widely in my culture , woman (إمرأة) is defined as a non-virgin girl and womanhood is achieved by losing virginity. So in other term, a girl (بنت) would stay a girl as long she didn't lose her virginity ,regardless of the age :?.

That shocked me a bit because I always thought that woman (إمرأة) is just the label used for the adult mature girl, last time I checked the definition of woman in Arabic , there's no mentioning of the hymen state. Linguistically speaking , the definition of woman is the adult female human, no less no more.


I actually found out this widely accepted concept by coincidence through a conversation with 2 girls (or "women"? haha), when one of them was talking about a health issue in her sister's vaginal area and she was saying that a surgery isn't yet possible because she still a 'girl'. I was like "what do you mean? of course she's a girl :-/" , both looked at me with a weird look and the other girl said "she means that her sister is not a woman yet". and I was like "she still a young teen, she can't be called a woman!". :lol:

and so they explained me that a non-virgin girl = woman and I was like "no f*** way , this is stupid ,what the hymen thing has anything to do with this appellation" but later I found out this how everyone define woman. Funny that a man is not defined by virginity ,so they're really not the opposite meanings as you're saying, not in our culture anyways.

Gawd, I really live in a bubble.



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25 Feb 2011, 7:21 pm

Moog wrote:
Maybe the Oestrogen they put in the water supply kicked in.



8O 8O



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25 Feb 2011, 8:47 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
wefunction wrote:
Moog wrote:
What is a man though?


This is a crucial question. If one gets into what determines a man, one must get into what determines a woman. Since too often these two things are poised as opposites, instead of mutually exclusive genders, we end up with a very cisgendered and bigoted mindset. Logically, one would think that aspies and auties would be the first people in line to refuse strict definitions of individuals into groups, signaling out anyone who doesn't conform as "different" or "abnormal".


Funny, I find myself refusing some of those definitions.

I found out ,not very long ago, that widely in my culture , woman (إمرأة) is defined as a non-virgin girl and womanhood is achieved by losing virginity. So in other term, a girl (بنت) would stay a girl as long she didn't lose her virginity ,regardless of the age :?.

That shocked me a bit because I always thought that woman (إمرأة) is just the label used for the adult mature girl, last time I checked the definition of woman in Arabic , there's no mentioning of the hymen state. Linguistically speaking , the definition of woman is the adult female human, no less no more.


I actually found out this widely accepted concept by coincidence through a conversation with 2 girls (or "women"? haha), when one of them was talking about a health issue in her sister's vaginal area and she was saying that a surgery isn't yet possible because she still a 'girl'. I was like "what do you mean? of course she's a girl :-/" , both looked at me with a weird look and the other girl said "she means that her sister is not a woman yet". and I was like "she still a young teen, she can't be called a woman!". :lol:

and so they explained me that a non-virgin girl = woman and I was like "no f*** way , this is stupid ,what the hymen thing has anything to do with this appellation" but later I found out this how everyone define woman. Funny that a man is not defined by virginity ,so they're really not the opposite meanings as you're saying, not in our culture anyways.

Gawd, I really live in a bubble.

Becoming a man/woman is more a euphemism for losing one's virginity than an actual identifier. In this case, they were identifying her as a girl and not a woman as a way of being subtle about her still having her virginity. Society at large, though, doesn't consider womanhood to begin with the loss of one's virginity. If we want to be technical, a male or female starts to become a man or woman when they enter puberty. Personally, I refer to everyone as "guy" or "girl," and don't really consider myself a man, as I believe a man is a guy who cares for and supports his family. Same thing with a woman, really.



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25 Feb 2011, 9:05 pm

Moog wrote:
Maybe the Oestrogen they put in the water supply kicked in.


Bisphenol-A



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25 Feb 2011, 9:41 pm

wefunction wrote:
nick007 wrote:
wefunction wrote:
nick007 wrote:
wefunction wrote:
Men and women need to be considerate of one another. Dating needs to be a nice meal. If a man wants to be with a woman, he should plan a special evening and pay all the expenses for it. He should treat her with respect, open doors, have manners and be genuinely interested in finding out if she's the kind of person he wants to continue to have in his life. If she's also interested in him, she should plan special evenings and occasions together, taking the expense to make those happen, and having good manners. One should always say "thank you" when the other does something nice for them. There should be a revealed interest in physical intimacy but there should be no pressure so that it happens when both people are ready for it and can continue the relationship afterward.

Lots of women do not go for a guy who's like that. They only like the guy as a friend. The shallow self-absorbed guys tend to have more women interested in em


See, that's a different issue altogether. The Why do girls date jerks? is the same issue as Why do guys like b--ches? In that, there is a psychological issue about self-esteem and control. People want to control someone, fix them, change them, and that stems from a need inside of them caused by someone like that who didn't love them and should have (ie parent). It's a pattern of behavior, almost an abusive cycle, of trying to "win" at something that's really impossible so they can prove to themselves (and the person who hurt them) that they are worthy of love. And, yeah, there are a lot of people like that.

Those weren't the people I was referring to in my comment, obviously.

My point is that women generally do NOT seem to go for nice guys so guys do not see the point in trying to friendly because they think women are not interested in that


Yeah. I understood your point and addressed it. You, however, are sticking to an inaccurate overgeneralized stereotype. Please reconsider my comment.

My opinions are formed based on what I personally see. I'm betting you don't live anywhere near me


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25 Feb 2011, 11:40 pm

Interesting topic with some interesting replies.

Personally, I don't flirt because I fear rejection, which I imagine is more likely to be the result of it in my case due to my extreme awkwardness and also because of the fact that by most peoples standards I am crazy. I have bi-polar, hypochondria, and paranoid personality disorder...that I know of. I have plenty of confidence in my looks but flirting can lead to more and more with me means having eventually to deal with my mental abberrations, which I think I can safely assume is something most women don't want to have to do, and so I do not even open the door for rejection (by flirting), which, in my case, whether sooner or later, always seems to come. It is easier for me to allow women to look at me and lust for me (as some do), and never open the door for them by flirting, because they may think they want me, but I know that a large majority of them wont anymore, once I've let them in, and so I assume that by so doing, I'm saving them the trouble and myself the heartache.


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26 Feb 2011, 4:56 pm

nick007 wrote:
wefunction wrote:
nick007 wrote:
wefunction wrote:
nick007 wrote:
wefunction wrote:
Men and women need to be considerate of one another. Dating needs to be a nice meal. If a man wants to be with a woman, he should plan a special evening and pay all the expenses for it. He should treat her with respect, open doors, have manners and be genuinely interested in finding out if she's the kind of person he wants to continue to have in his life. If she's also interested in him, she should plan special evenings and occasions together, taking the expense to make those happen, and having good manners. One should always say "thank you" when the other does something nice for them. There should be a revealed interest in physical intimacy but there should be no pressure so that it happens when both people are ready for it and can continue the relationship afterward.

Lots of women do not go for a guy who's like that. They only like the guy as a friend. The shallow self-absorbed guys tend to have more women interested in em


See, that's a different issue altogether. The Why do girls date jerks? is the same issue as Why do guys like b--ches? In that, there is a psychological issue about self-esteem and control. People want to control someone, fix them, change them, and that stems from a need inside of them caused by someone like that who didn't love them and should have (ie parent). It's a pattern of behavior, almost an abusive cycle, of trying to "win" at something that's really impossible so they can prove to themselves (and the person who hurt them) that they are worthy of love. And, yeah, there are a lot of people like that.

Those weren't the people I was referring to in my comment, obviously.

My point is that women generally do NOT seem to go for nice guys so guys do not see the point in trying to friendly because they think women are not interested in that


Yeah. I understood your point and addressed it. You, however, are sticking to an inaccurate overgeneralized stereotype. Please reconsider my comment.

My opinions are formed based on what I personally see. I'm betting you don't live anywhere near me


South Louisiana? Been there and a lot of other places. There's some great people in South Louisiana that I had a fun time talking to and sharing a drink with. I'm living in South Florida. I've lived in Chicago, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Tennessee and Germany. I'm sure my own personal experience as a woman and domestic abuse survivor plus my years volunteering at a women's shelter also contribute to my insight into why women do the things they do. But I suppose if you think you have some eye into our culture and explanation of women that I couldn't possibly have based on South Louisiana, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. You started arguing with me and I'm just putting out there what I know. Just know that you can't blame the women for your bachelor status forever. It's possible that you're not the "nice guy" you think you are.



nick007
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26 Feb 2011, 7:12 pm

wefunction wrote:
nick007 wrote:
wefunction wrote:
nick007 wrote:
wefunction wrote:
nick007 wrote:
wefunction wrote:
Men and women need to be considerate of one another. Dating needs to be a nice meal. If a man wants to be with a woman, he should plan a special evening and pay all the expenses for it. He should treat her with respect, open doors, have manners and be genuinely interested in finding out if she's the kind of person he wants to continue to have in his life. If she's also interested in him, she should plan special evenings and occasions together, taking the expense to make those happen, and having good manners. One should always say "thank you" when the other does something nice for them. There should be a revealed interest in physical intimacy but there should be no pressure so that it happens when both people are ready for it and can continue the relationship afterward.

Lots of women do not go for a guy who's like that. They only like the guy as a friend. The shallow self-absorbed guys tend to have more women interested in em


See, that's a different issue altogether. The Why do girls date jerks? is the same issue as Why do guys like b--ches? In that, there is a psychological issue about self-esteem and control. People want to control someone, fix them, change them, and that stems from a need inside of them caused by someone like that who didn't love them and should have (ie parent). It's a pattern of behavior, almost an abusive cycle, of trying to "win" at something that's really impossible so they can prove to themselves (and the person who hurt them) that they are worthy of love. And, yeah, there are a lot of people like that.

Those weren't the people I was referring to in my comment, obviously.

My point is that women generally do NOT seem to go for nice guys so guys do not see the point in trying to friendly because they think women are not interested in that


Yeah. I understood your point and addressed it. You, however, are sticking to an inaccurate overgeneralized stereotype. Please reconsider my comment.

My opinions are formed based on what I personally see. I'm betting you don't live anywhere near me


South Louisiana? Been there and a lot of other places. There's some great people in South Louisiana that I had a fun time talking to and sharing a drink with. I'm living in South Florida. I've lived in Chicago, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Tennessee and Germany. I'm sure my own personal experience as a woman and domestic abuse survivor plus my years volunteering at a women's shelter also contribute to my insight into why women do the things they do. But I suppose if you think you have some eye into our culture and explanation of women that I couldn't possibly have based on South Louisiana, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. You started arguing with me and I'm just putting out there what I know. Just know that you can't blame the women for your bachelor status forever. It's possible that you're not the "nice guy" you think you are.

I'm alone because I'm more like a woman than a man. Women like guys who are more dominating & I wish women would be more dominating


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26 Feb 2011, 8:14 pm

nick007 wrote:
I'm alone because I'm more like a woman than a man. Women like guys who are more dominating & I wish women would be more dominating


There's so much wrong there, man.... *deep breath* Okay...

"dominating" is not a gender specific trait. Again, here we are with cisgendered prejudices instead of analyzing and valuing the individual. If I had a dime for every time that problem popped up on L&D, I'd upgrade my cable.

If you want an aggressive, independent assertive woman, find one. In the meanwhile, it's not a woman's fault if she doesn't want to be with someone who's not independent and assertive himself. The strong women that you're attracted to want strong partners. They don't want those men to "dominate" them - whatever the hell that's supposed to mean in the 21st century - they want a man who's an equal. If you're meek and weak, you're not her equal so it's logical that you'd be rejected. That's not her problem, that's yours. There's no country in the world that will compensate you for that. Claiming that you're "a nice guy" simply because you're meek and weak is a false statement and you can't claim women don't want you because you're a nice guy. You've got to work on yourself to become someone that a woman would want. You don't have to change who you are, but you have to become a better version of yourself.



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26 Feb 2011, 8:20 pm

wefunction wrote:
nick007 wrote:
I'm alone because I'm more like a woman than a man. Women like guys who are more dominating & I wish women would be more dominating


There's so much wrong there, man.... *deep breath* Okay...

"dominating" is not a gender specific trait. Again, here we are with cisgendered prejudices instead of analyzing and valuing the individual. If I had a dime for every time that problem popped up on L&D, I'd upgrade my cable.

If you want an aggressive, independent assertive woman, find one. In the meanwhile, it's not a woman's fault if she doesn't want to be with someone who's not independent and assertive himself. The strong women that you're attracted to want strong partners. They don't want those men to "dominate" them - whatever the hell that's supposed to mean in the 21st century - they want a man who's an equal. If you're meek and weak, you're not her equal so it's logical that you'd be rejected. That's not her problem, that's yours. There's no country in the world that will compensate you for that. Claiming that you're "a nice guy" simply because you're meek and weak is a false statement and you can't claim women don't want you because you're a nice guy. You've got to work on yourself to become someone that a woman would want. You don't have to change who you are, but you have to become a better version of yourself.

I don't think I claimed that I was a nice guy anywhere in this post. I think the problem is we do not have arranged marriages. I think a lot of women would like me if they gave me a chance


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26 Feb 2011, 8:30 pm

nick007 wrote:
wefunction wrote:
nick007 wrote:
I'm alone because I'm more like a woman than a man. Women like guys who are more dominating & I wish women would be more dominating


There's so much wrong there, man.... *deep breath* Okay...

"dominating" is not a gender specific trait. Again, here we are with cisgendered prejudices instead of analyzing and valuing the individual. If I had a dime for every time that problem popped up on L&D, I'd upgrade my cable.

If you want an aggressive, independent assertive woman, find one. In the meanwhile, it's not a woman's fault if she doesn't want to be with someone who's not independent and assertive himself. The strong women that you're attracted to want strong partners. They don't want those men to "dominate" them - whatever the hell that's supposed to mean in the 21st century - they want a man who's an equal. If you're meek and weak, you're not her equal so it's logical that you'd be rejected. That's not her problem, that's yours. There's no country in the world that will compensate you for that. Claiming that you're "a nice guy" simply because you're meek and weak is a false statement and you can't claim women don't want you because you're a nice guy. You've got to work on yourself to become someone that a woman would want. You don't have to change who you are, but you have to become a better version of yourself.

I don't think I claimed that I was a nice guy anywhere in this post. I think the problem is we do not have arranged marriages. I think a lot of women would like me if they gave me a chance


First, you would not be considered valuable enough for a father to give his daughter to you unless the dowry was HUGE and the family was in desperate need of it. I doubt you'd have the dowry needed. It's clear that you're not a strong provider and probably would not produce strong sons. That father would have better options for his daughter. In a society with arranged marriages, the classism is unapologetically worse than it is in our free society. You would be in a worse position than you are now.

With all that said, I think it's morally wrong to force any woman to marry you just because you're too afraid to better yourself.

And you were the one who brought up the nice guy thing. It's right here in the comments.



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26 Feb 2011, 8:46 pm

wefunction wrote:
nick007 wrote:
wefunction wrote:
nick007 wrote:
I'm alone because I'm more like a woman than a man. Women like guys who are more dominating & I wish women would be more dominating


There's so much wrong there, man.... *deep breath* Okay...

"dominating" is not a gender specific trait. Again, here we are with cisgendered prejudices instead of analyzing and valuing the individual. If I had a dime for every time that problem popped up on L&D, I'd upgrade my cable.

If you want an aggressive, independent assertive woman, find one. In the meanwhile, it's not a woman's fault if she doesn't want to be with someone who's not independent and assertive himself. The strong women that you're attracted to want strong partners. They don't want those men to "dominate" them - whatever the hell that's supposed to mean in the 21st century - they want a man who's an equal. If you're meek and weak, you're not her equal so it's logical that you'd be rejected. That's not her problem, that's yours. There's no country in the world that will compensate you for that. Claiming that you're "a nice guy" simply because you're meek and weak is a false statement and you can't claim women don't want you because you're a nice guy. You've got to work on yourself to become someone that a woman would want. You don't have to change who you are, but you have to become a better version of yourself.

I don't think I claimed that I was a nice guy anywhere in this post. I think the problem is we do not have arranged marriages. I think a lot of women would like me if they gave me a chance


First, you would not be considered valuable enough for a father to give his daughter to you unless the dowry was HUGE and the family was in desperate need of it. I doubt you'd have the dowry needed. It's clear that you're not a strong provider and probably would not produce strong sons. That father would have better options for his daughter. In a society with arranged marriages, the classism is unapologetically worse than it is in our free society. You would be in a worse position than you are now.

With all that said, I think it's morally wrong to force any woman to marry you just because you're too afraid to better yourself. It totally f#*king sux that

And you were the one who brought up the nice guy thing. It's right here in the comments.

I am NOT afraide to better myself I am doing what I can & I do the best that I can to put my partner 1st & take care of her if I was lucky enough to have one. I'm tired of people judging me unfairly. I've been misjudged by people my whole life. My nickname in high-school was Mr Garrison after the guy on SouthPark because I'm apparently secretly gay. I wish I was because it'll be a hell of a lot easier for people to accept me the way I am,


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26 Feb 2011, 9:17 pm

I miss the days when a date was ice cream and a soda. it was "keen". I'm agreeing with the voluntary arranged marriage idea. Maybe a system where you can purpose and she can accept ( and vice versa) arrangement service.


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27 Feb 2011, 12:41 am

This mage is related - at least for the people on some forums I browse.

Image

Image


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27 Feb 2011, 1:43 am

nick007 wrote:
wefunction wrote:
nick007 wrote:
I don't think I claimed that I was a nice guy anywhere in this post. I think the problem is we do not have arranged marriages. I think a lot of women would like me if they gave me a chance


First, you would not be considered valuable enough for a father to give his daughter to you unless the dowry was HUGE and the family was in desperate need of it. I doubt you'd have the dowry needed. It's clear that you're not a strong provider and probably would not produce strong sons. That father would have better options for his daughter. In a society with arranged marriages, the classism is unapologetically worse than it is in our free society. You would be in a worse position than you are now.

With all that said, I think it's morally wrong to force any woman to marry you just because you're too afraid to better yourself. It totally f#*king sux that

And you were the one who brought up the nice guy thing. It's right here in the comments.

I am NOT afraide to better myself I am doing what I can & I do the best that I can to put my partner 1st & take care of her if I was lucky enough to have one. I'm tired of people judging me unfairly. I've been misjudged by people my whole life. My nickname in high-school was Mr Garrison after the guy on SouthPark because I'm apparently secretly gay. I wish I was because it'll be a hell of a lot easier for people to accept me the way I am,


Why did you mess with my comment? I bold-faced the strange text. I never said "It totally f#*king sux that". I would never write that. That's not how I write. What are you doing?



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27 Feb 2011, 2:08 am

wefunction wrote:
nick007 wrote:
wefunction wrote:
nick007 wrote:
I don't think I claimed that I was a nice guy anywhere in this post. I think the problem is we do not have arranged marriages. I think a lot of women would like me if they gave me a chance


First, you would not be considered valuable enough for a father to give his daughter to you unless the dowry was HUGE and the family was in desperate need of it. I doubt you'd have the dowry needed. It's clear that you're not a strong provider and probably would not produce strong sons. That father would have better options for his daughter. In a society with arranged marriages, the classism is unapologetically worse than it is in our free society. You would be in a worse position than you are now.

With all that said, I think it's morally wrong to force any woman to marry you just because you're too afraid to better yourself. It totally f#*king sux that

And you were the one who brought up the nice guy thing. It's right here in the comments.

I am NOT afraide to better myself I am doing what I can & I do the best that I can to put my partner 1st & take care of her if I was lucky enough to have one. I'm tired of people judging me unfairly. I've been misjudged by people my whole life. My nickname in high-school was Mr Garrison after the guy on SouthPark because I'm apparently secretly gay. I wish I was because it'll be a hell of a lot easier for people to accept me the way I am,


Why did you mess with my comment? I bold-faced the strange text. I never said "It totally f#*king sux that". I would never write that. That's not how I write. What are you doing?

I honestly did NOT intentionally screw-up that quote. I was going to say it f#*cking sux in part of my reply & thought I deleted it. Maybe I accidentally cut it & pasted it or something


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