should i steal this girl from her boyfriend?

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Christ, how am I the least offensive one here!? The UAE is a liberal thinking, rich country that is almost entirely secular and is extremely forward thinking. And not all muslim children become suicide bombers. Get informed for gods sake.

Perhaps I have the mistaken impression that there is female circumcision (genital mutilation) and "honour killings" of women and female infanticide is not uncommon, both of which lead to there being an unnaturally low ratio of women:men. This doesn't seem forward thinking to me. But, I could be under a mistaken impression, after reading books such as "Princess".

Unless for some reason her relationship with her fiance is very poor, don't make a move. Doing otherwise would prove you to be a very selfish man indeed.

And yes, I find your desire to convert her to atheism disturbing. Also, your statement that your children would become suicide bombers may have been in jest, but regardless of intent it's utterly offensive. Learn how to keep your mouth shut, for goodness sake, unless you have something useful to say.

Atheist suicide bombers? Do they blow themselves up for no reason at all? Are they promised that, when they die, they'll go nowhere and get absolutely nothing as a reward?

Well, at least you could take a few people with you on the way. Er...?

You're talking about a minority of people doing this. Most people in the UAE build those stupid buildings and man made islands and giant flagpoles. It's not much better, but I suppose this puts them on par with America and our needless building.

this is nonsense actually. you obviously have very little knowledge about the many variations of anarchist philosophy that exist.

Peebo - I wasn't referring to anarchist PHILOSOPHY, and I don't believe subatai_baadur was, either (he's free to correct me on this one, though). In this debate I believe we were using 'anarchy' as per this definition:

"n 1 general lawlessness and disorder, esp when thought to result from an absence or failure of government"
- Collins English Dictionary, Sixth Edition, 2006.

As our discussion about Somalia went on to prove, anarchy in this sense generally equates to "every man for himself" and a consequential collapse in living standards and life expectancy. I was using the distinction between a formal society with rules and a chaotic society without rules to explain to subatai_baadur why basic social morality exists, and why I felt it would be a bad idea for us to go around stealing each other's girlfriends [the original theme of this Topic, remember?]. This was in response to his assertion that he would rather live in anarchy than comply with any "bull**** rules".

Within certain branches of anarchist philosophy, e.g. regarding communal living, the need for a moral code is recognised. Although this was not the context in which we were using the term "anarchy", it does further illustrate the point that "bull**** rules" exist for the good of humanity and would be necessary even within a [philosophically] anarchic world.

this is very true, sociable hermit. i just generally object to the use of the term anarchy to describe a chaotic state of "every man for himself", anomie and social instability. of course, mutually agreed "rules" would form the basis of many if not most schools of anarchist thought, it is more the existence of "rulers" to which the anarchist would object.

but yes, sorry to drift away from the original topic here. i would say, hellznrg, that you should do as you see fit, but that you should also bear in mind the possible consequences of your actions. for instance, is the object of your desires happy in her current relationship? do you feel you have more to offer her than her current suitor? or would your motivations be purely selfish in nature?

Outside of the philosophical community, I thing the word "anarchy" has held extremely negative connotations for many years. Given that the dictionary definition I quoted seems to be the version which most people use and understand, I suspect that its meaning has evolved in popular culture in a way which would be impossible to undo. History has overtaken this definition:



Maybe the time has come for philosophers and social commentators to abandon the use of the term 'anarchy' in a positive sense and find a new term to use which does not suffer from any definition problems? I know that technically you're correct but the negative definition is the one which has been adopted by the masses. Trying to change this would be much like hitting your head against a wall. The two meanings need to be split up. In fact, I'm having a struggle to think of another word which has such wildly different meanings according to context.

I appreciate why you were annoyed, and I apologise for this, but I think you're being somewhat unrealistic - better to accept that the common meaning has changed and search for a new term for its more specialised variant.

Last edited by sociable_hermit on 24 Sep 2006, 11:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

P.S. I get equally annoyed by language issues sometimes, so I do understand. It isn't easy being tolerant. I also agree with your advice - all hellznrg can do is make his feelings known, but in an open-ended, non-threatening way. After all, it will all depend on how she feels about hellznrg AND how she feels about her existing relationship, and she is the only person who knows both of these things! Plus a heavy-handed approach could well jeapordize the friendship and possibly earn him a punch on the nose from the b/f...

the problem as i see it is that the anarchist movement, especially in the late 19th and early 20th century, and later as well, as in the paris riots of may '68 to cite one example, have posed quite a threat to the status quo and the system of capitalism in general. because of this, in my view anyway, the powers that be have made a concerted effort to attach a very negative connotation to the word "anarchy", which seems to have stuck.

in much the same way as the anti cannabis propaganda of the US government throughout the 20th century has completely changed the public opinion on what is largely a benign and beneficial herb, i suppose.

or how the concept of communism means nothing other to most people than the draconian authoritarian system practiced in the soviet union that would be better described as stalinism.

things that pose a threat to the system, are generally tarred with the undesirable brush, just to make sure the docile masses dont get any ideas above their station.

oh, and there is really no need to apologise, i was perhaps being overly pedantic so don't worry yourself at all about it.

yeah i'm kinda worried about that last one... u should see the size of her boyfriend's hands... the first thing i did when i shook hands with him for the first time.. i actually said out loud "WHOA!"

well, today she & i and one of our friend was hanging out at a cafe.. and she left early so this dude & i were discussing her... so i said to him "how do u think she'd react if you told her that i was in love with her, but don't tell her i told you to say that".... so he's like "i already did this morning.." so i was like... DAMN.. wow.. so anyways he said that she now knows, but she said to him.. "well i have a boyfriend and i'm getting married so.."

but anyways, even so, she told me today that i was her best friend.. and she's my best friend too.. i would have thought that was a great foundation for an LTR.... the guy won't even give her a foot massage for f***s sake... i would just love to buy a book & learn how to give a foot massage so i can give her one on her next birthday... but i fear that would upset the apple cart or something..

Punch in the nose coming in 3...2...1

well i was mostly just BSing about the suiclide bombers s**t... but anyways i want my kids to have a solid science foundation... once that's in place, there's no way in hell they're becoming religious.. plus they'll all prolly be aspies, so with their extreme male brain, religion and spirituality won't make an iota of sense to them anwyays...!

anyways yeah i'm very sincere.. i've never met a nicer person in my life (she, that is).. plus she's a little hyperactive and loves to learn new stuff so i think she & i could be pretty happy together..

anyways i'm not into conquests and all that s**t.. if i was, i wouldn't be a 30 year old virgin

as for the UAE... the worst kind of s**thole there ever was, with the possible exception of saudi arabia... all moslem countries are s**t really it's what you get when you run a country with asswipe laws from a "holey book"