Ladder Theory for men.

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Fine , let's call it the biggest minority, and biggest minorities make huge differences.

Islamist movements would be winning the elections in the new upcoming Arabic regimes because they are always ...the biggest minorities.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 01 Nov 2011, 6:44 am, edited 3 times in total.

Regardless of all the other reasons.

When a great portion of women (whether a majority or a the biggest minority) choose to quit their careers (and their businesses) once married then men would always dominate the business world. Remember, a lot of people build their businesses based on their previous careers' expertise and knowledge.

Also women tend to not choose the most lucrative fields of education, such as IT, science and engineering.

Boo, women choosing different careers from men != women 'marrying up'. we have also previously discussed that the gender wage gap and female/male participation in the workforce is far greater in Lebanon than Europe than North America. so your world is really not comparable. seems like maybe women have little choice except to care about money to a higher degree in Lebanon, as their options are extremely limited. in Canada nearly 50% of the workforce is female, for example.

and 50% of the workforce is female / smaller wage gap =! women marrying up.

A woman might be a senior manager and still want to marry up a more earning senior manager, while some other woman with entry level job might not care.

Did you even read my whole post above before mentioning the Lebanon and Canada thing again?

because according to the studies and articles I mentioned above, the marrying up phenomena is not only exclusive for this tiny country that barely people know about it which is called Lebanon.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 01 Nov 2011, 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

It's not always the obvious things, like money and status. But in one way or another, for a woman to be happy in a relationship, she _must_ believe her man is better than her in one way or another. Any relationship where the woman believes she is better than her man is doomed for unhappiness (for the woman at least) or failure.

You might come across the term DHV if you read game blogs, (Demonstration of Higher Value). It's a core manoeuvre and it works very well.

lol BOTH men and women often fall for people who they consider to be inspiringly better than themselves in some way, especially in terms of character. it keeps us improving and trying to become better people. no need for silly acronyms.

It's not quite the same the other way around, if some hapless white knighting beta somehow gets into a relationship, then he believes his girl is the most perfect being ever to grace the Earth, he believes she is better than him in every way, and has thought that 10 minutes after meeting her. Don't need to tell you how unattractive that is.
Normal healthy men will feel distinctly uncomfortable and insecure dating someone better than him, particularly if its the money issue. It might not be a dealbreaker, but it would definitely bug him. In all likelyhood he probably wouldn't date her in the first place.

EDIT: like I said above, men marry down to ensure loyalty.

Hmm....not sure about the 'both' part.

A lot of men have also ego issues, that's why they tend to prefer to marry "down".

i disagree that women marry up as a default thing, no matter which way you spin it.

one of your articles is an opinion piece about a book that is a bunch of interviews. the other one attributes all of the decisions to women, as though they are selecting males from some kind of pool according to income lol. i'd like to see just one single study that proves that women are the ones deciding who they will date, because as far as i can tell, men have just as much say. there is an assumption that in cases where women do marry a man who earns more money or who is more powerful, that she is somehow the one deciding. it could be equally true that men are marrying DOWN in those cases of income or power disparity. noth ideas are equally absurd, but i find it quite telling that women are painted as some sort of relationship decision-makers.

if women really wanted to marry rich and become housewives, they would be doing that, which they are not (like i said, nearly 50% of the workforce is women - there would have to be nearly equal numbers of housewives and househusbands).

you should maybe do some reading on these things from a more scholarly viewpoint. your post is full of tired old gender stereotypes, backed by 0 research. it's not even worthwhile to pick it apart as there are so many layers of false generalisations.

I wonder what culture you live in? your observations are only valid for small-town working-class environments, where the majority of people are obsessed with status and status is easily measured by wealth, simply because the majority lacks it. also, high-school.

Ugh, this thread makes my brain hurt.

Can someone point me towards the part where a reasonably-decent guy meets a reasonably-decent girl and much squishy romantic stuff ensues?

I must admit tho, what lilly is saying is common among men. Remember our conversation? the 3 cases?

Yet I don't think it's related to loyalty in any form, it's more about macho ego.

Hyper, don't mix things up.

Wanting to be a housewife != wanting to Marry up.

A woman might want to marry someone of higher education/profession yet she still wants to continue her career.

One might want to marry up yet keeping the career

One might want to marry up and become a housewife/husband.

One might want to be a housewife/husband without any intention to marry up.

The 50% thing doesn't prove anything.

Besides, fantasy is different from reality, the article talks what about a study (and an interview) showing a trend of thoughts of what most wanted and not what they actually got. Rich men aren't common commodities, you know.

The okcupid chart posted in the other thread also shows such trend of wishful preferences.

As for who has the power of choosing the mate....that's a totally different topic.

no, i think you need to reread the articles. one of the articles is about an economist's own (potentially biased and even sexist) conclusions regarding some data. the article was not about any data itself. the other article was based on a book that was just interviews with women. there were no studies cited for us to discuss.

i did not see anything in either article that would substantiate your claims (or even the economist's claims as i do not see any data - just her own conclusions).

the 50% proves everything because you are making an implication that women want to quit woerk to be supported by men. your own words:



obviously, this is not the case in Canada, so i was giving you the benefit of the doubt by concluding you are viewing the situation with a cultural bias. otherwise, i'd say it's simply hogwash.