Found note - my wife has delusional thoughts about me

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As someone with AS, I find a table fan more useful. Every time she turned it on, she should of thought how much you cared about her. But what do I know.... lol... the first gift I gave my current boyfriend was a table saw.

Yep, indeed. There are plenty of women who want jewelry, chocolate, or flowers. To me, those things are so temporary. Earings get lost, chocolate gets eaten and needs to be exercised off, and flowers die.

Yep...I would have loved a table fan.

I actually hinted for a cordless drill for my birthday one year...he thought I was nuts. LOL

Keep up with your therapy and you will figure out your goals. They will be goals for you and no one else. When you accomplish them, you will look back and be proud because you did those things to better yourself.

You're an amazing man, with endless possibilities because you are armed with knowledge!

Keep up the good work!

You're welcome!

Yes. I had an ex-girlfriend that did something similar to this. Turned out she was an extremely paranoid person and had some psychological problems (she was bipolar). While your AS issues may have aggravated the situation, it's not your fault. People with bipolar disorder can be extremely difficult, irrational, and obscenely paranoid when they are off their medications.

The truth is it does go in phases. At times they are extremely manic and at other times they are perfectly okay. I'm sure she didn't think such horrible things about you all the time. In fact, I'll bet in the times when she was better, she regretted those thoughts.

I wish I could give you an easy answer, but I can't. You are going to have to make a decision, if she doesn't make the decision for you (and it sounds like she has). You're going to have to decide if you are going to try and deal with this or move on. A bipolar person (depending on the extremity) can be dangerous when not taking their medication. I would really start thinking more about the kids now.

Try not to think of her as hateful, selfish or angry. She probably can't help her condition.

Sorry I've been away. I had a kidney stone attack and have been in the hospital.

"Keep up with your therapy and you will figure out your goals."

Actually, this is cognitive behavioral therapy. The purpose is to better intellectually compensate for AS so as to function better in (fill in the blank). For me, it is primarily close relationships. I did bring up improving interviewing skills so that finding work is easier.

"You're an amazing man, with endless possibilities because you are armed with knowledge!"

Thank you. It is amazing how much knowledge I have absorbed in the short time that I dx'ed. I have to say that reading all of the dry third party clinical stuff the first few days wasn't nearly as valuable to me as finding the forums full of first hand experience.

I wouldn't involve someone else in trying to communicate with her, as she might start to say you are "stalking" her. Also avoid leaving notes in her path (same reason). Unfortunately when someone abandons you, they don't have to give you a logical or reasonable explanation.

"While your AS issues may have aggravated the situation, it's not your fault. People with bipolar disorder can be extremely difficult, irrational, and obscenely paranoid when they are off their medications."

In my case, the AS REALLY aggravated the situation. If I hadn't had it, I think it's entirely possible that her disorder could have been quite mild.

"I'm sure she didn't think such horrible things about you all the time. In fact, I'll bet in the times when she was better, she regretted those thoughts."

I'd like to think so, but I'm really not sure. At least she doesn't express regret to me.

"You are going to have to make a decision, if she doesn't make the decision for you (and it sounds like she has)."

She has.

"You're going to have to decide if you are going to try and deal with this or move on."

As you can probably tell by now, I'm not a quitter. The secondary goal is to help her to help herself with her disorder. I feel that I owe her that, but even if I didn't, I need to do it out of love.

"A bipolar person (depending on the extremity) can be dangerous when not taking their medication. I would really start thinking more about the kids now."

The only danger is to herself. She has said and written things, including in the note that started this thread, that she wanted to die. She checked herself into a mental health facility a few years ago for a week or so. She said that suicidal thoughts pushed her to do it. I don't remember the exact circumstances right now, but this was immediately preceded by some sort of a huge misunderstanding wherein I was being made to feel like I was awful and the root of all problems and I hadn't a clue what it was about and became very frustrated and blew up. The children are essentially grown. Sure, it still affects them, but I think they'll be OK.

"Try not to think of her as hateful, selfish or angry. She probably can't help her condition."

She can and she can't. I know from personal experience that you can't just hold your chin up and end depression. But the nearly consistent refusal to acknowledge it and seek treatment and even anger when people want to help - well - maybe that's the depression too. I don't know. But I do get frustrated by it. She is hateful, selfish (in a way) and angry. The question is - How much of it is a disorder and how much is natural? I have seen her be so loving that I have to believe that it's 99% the former.

I have to say, I blamed myself for "ruining the lives" of certain girls in the past.

But you must realise it can't be all your fault!

Yes of course the stress of trying to relate aggravated the situation, but at the same time, you must know she would have come across that stress at one point or another.

"I wouldn't involve someone else in trying to communicate with her, as she might start to say you are "stalking" her. Also avoid leaving notes in her path (same reason). Unfortunately when someone abandons you, they don't have to give you a logical or reasonable explanation."

Of course they don't. Her explanation is very reasonable - she doesn't love me any more. But I think the reasons for that are AS/bipolar NT issues that I've begun to understand. She doesn't seem to want to. No matter what caused her to lose her feelings, she's lost them. I don't think that she will intellectualize the situation, change her mind, and love me again. Maybe I did for a while, but not any more. As for her sister, I've changed my intentions. Sure, I'd like to think that her sister could get her to seek help. I also need somebody IRL, who knows me and knows my wife, to talk to. I can't think of any one else and I really need to talk it out. I blurted something out to my daughter at the hospital that wasn't appropriate to burden a child with.

Hi KNT,

I can't say a whole lot right this moment. I'm just posting to thank you for so much of what you've expressed so far. I'm going through a very similar situation with my own wife of seven years. The marital problems have been recurring for years now, and it looks like the final nail in the coffin is just about ready to be hammered in.

I actually just figured out today what exactly has been wrong with me for the past 41 years, that I have AS. I told her about it this morning, but she was suspicious that I was making it up as some kind of excuse. After she looked it up on the Internet though, she had no doubt. Still, it's "my problem", not something she wants to be burdened with.

What's so ironic about it all is that, just as I feel I'm on the cusp of a breakthrough toward becoming what she wants me to be (a better approximation of an NT-like person), she insists that "it's over." It really breaks my heart, because I feel that if she would just work with me, we can succeed. Like you, I believe marriage is forever, and failure for me has just never been an option.

Anyway, I went searching through this forum today for the first time hoping to find someone who might be going through a similar situation, and you've articulated so many things so well. I don't really have anything helpful to say other than to let you know there's another soul out there right now who feels much of your pain (and how!).

And I thank you for letting me know you're out there. Hang in there.

msb,

I too came here and found people who could relate to what I've been through. It has been very helpful to me as well.

My wife and I had been exchanging e-mails. I was trying to resolve issues. She was venting. Finally, I wrote one that covered nearly everything that had recently been brought up, but this time I put a special character after every non-rhetorical question and aske her to please answer instead of just going in circles. I expected a return e-mail, probably several days later. Instead, she came over last night with this incredible look of pure rage on her face and spit out like a viper, "OK, I'll give you answers".

Needless to say, I was not prepared and it was obvious that her mental state wasn't conducive to anything constructive, but it didn't seem like I had much choice. I pulled up the e-mail I'd sent and skimmed through for the questions. The result was pretty typical. On big issues, she would yell and be absolutely distraught. It was if asking those questions was the equivalent of drowning kittens. Even on the little things, she would find at least one way to totally miss the point, go off on some tangent that popped into her head to berate me about. I tried through the whole thing to keep an even tone and said several times that it did not have to be like this - it's ridiculous.

She eventually, in between all of the venting, yelling, crying, and going down every synaptic rabbit trail imaginable, answered most of them to some extent or another. At least I'm not completely in the dark anymore. The most important item for me is something that would be of virtually no consequence to her. Some day I'll have to explain it, but it takes time. She was adamant about not going along with it. Initially she couldn't really give any substantive reason for that even though she knew full well how important it was for me. She later came up with one practical reason that I hadn't thought of, but could be worked around. Eventually, to my amazement, she agreed, but it was the classic, "FINE!".

I don't remember how it came up but after all of the questions had been gone through, somehow we ended up talking about this incident that occurred when we were driving home from vacation. She referred to it as a fight. I said that it wasn't a fight and told her how I saw it. Here's what I said, "I've been thinking about this for quite a while and have been a little leary to bring it up, but I just want to have a calm reasonable discussion of something that's bothered me. During the vacation week, when it generally seemed that we were having a good time and we weren't fighting or anything, you would insert these little digs into conversations from out of the blue; things that were often years old and were only vaguely connected to the conversation. I didn't say anything all week because I wanted to enjoy our vacation. I'm just asking why you do that and asking you mot to do it. I don't think that I deserve that and I've never done it to you."

Her response was to pound her temples with both fists as hard as she could and then beat on the dashboard and then her thighs and then back to her head while make sounds like a wild animal. Naturally, I about ran off the road. I asked her why she was reacting like that and she screamed that I was accusing her of something; something that had absolutely nothing to do with what I had just said. And I do mean nothing. I still can't figure out how someone might connect the two. So I immediately said that it had nothing to do that. I don't remember exactluy how the whole thing wound down, but I do know that she never did address my original question. I gave up on ever getting an answer. I'm pretty sure that she never denied having thrown these verbal jabs, but she never addressed them at all. As for the subject that she had immediately jumped to? Other that telling her that it nothing at all to do with my question, I never said anything about it.

Last night, she insisted that the entire thing was about the subject that I had catagorically told her it was not. When I told her that that was simply completely wrong and insisted upon telling her what really happened, she screamed out that she's not delusional. She referred to other times in the past when she had been delusional and denied them all. She so honestly believes these delusions that when they are pointed out, she goes ballistic. So after all of the big heavy things had been covered without her storming out, this was too much and she double-timed it to the door in the most over-the-top huff you can imagine.

She had made it clear that her initial position that we were still friends and we could be cool about things was a lie. She had been saying that she didn't hate me; just didn't love me. Last night, it was pure hate. She said that any family gathering that I was at she would not attend. It was the kind of visceral rage that I had seen from time to time over the years, but not for quite a while. This is very similar to how she behaved before she checked into a mental health facility a few years ago. She repeatedly ignored several times when I pointed out that a behavior or trait that she was complaining about was classic AS. She would come back later in the "conversation" and accuse me of being purposely (fill in the blank) when I had just told her minute sbefore that that was AS at work.

Our son was in the house as all of this went down. I asked him to go away because he didn't need to hear this stuff, but you could hear it all over the house. After she left, we talked about it some. He had taken it all in stride and was able to discuss it in a very mature way. He talked about her periods of instability over the years. He told me that he has had a fear that she will get hurt or be killed while driving in a state like she was in last night. He said that he thought it would just be accidental, and when he said it, I thought immediately that it was a reasonable fear, but I thought it would be vehicular suicide.

So here's where things stand - She will not go to CBT with me because she doesn't believe (or likely refuses to) that it is just behavioral therapy to work on communication and emotion reading/expressing skills. She insists that it will be like previous counseling where it seemed that she was at fault for everything (so she says). She hates me and is in such a rage state, even after a six week cooling off period, that there is not only no possibility of reconciling, there doesn't even appear to be any possibility of her being civil to me.

I had honestly thought that if we spent a few weeks with minimal contact so that she was free of the stresses from our relationship, and I gave her information on AS, she would mellow out enough for us to discuss things rationally. Instead, she is 10 times worse than when she left. I have no idea why. I had a picture in my mind of her spending a lot of quited time at her sister's, taking it easy and pampering herself a little. I just assumed that it would help her mental state.

Her daughter clearly remembers living through her mother's rages casued by depression or bipolar. Her son says matter-of-factly that she's never been real stable. I now think that she is experiencing a mental health crisis at this very moment. Anything I might say is absolutely counterproductive. I don't know if her kids can broach the subject with her or how she would respond if they did. I'm guessing that her sister doesn't think that she has any issues other than those caused by me, because she probably hears the worst about me (whether true or imagined) and doesn't see the behavior that we have seen.

I'm now in the position of knowing that my wife is definitely never coming back and hates my guts, and that she's suffering a mental disorder that I desparately want to see her get help for, but have no idea how that could be brought about. Any suggestions?

This might seem a bit off topic...but I was a psych major in college,yet managed to "miss" any information about CD addiction.(I am an alcoholic),it wasn't until I ended up homeless that I realized that I might have a problem>Point being....you cant make someone come to terms with them selves.It has to be an internal process and some people never have the strength or environmental issues,that force them to "face themselves".I am not surprised by your spouses reaction....you are questioning the very unstable foundation of her reality....scary stuff,for anyone.The reason the relationship lasted as long as it did(in my opinion)is because your own issues kept you from focusing on hers.I think she has been seeing her own behavior,thoughts and emotions as being "your fault"....if she lets go of this belief system her reality crumbles and she is forced to face her own demons.Perhaps she will do this some day.A year from now or 10,it depends on if she has severe enough consequences or depression to motivate her to seek help.As long as she has you to blame for her own issues,she has no need to question her own distorted reality.If her main problem is chemical,the proper medication may help,but it does little for someone who refuses to change their delusional thinking.She can find a therepist...but unfortunatly,many seen afraid to lose clients by challenging their delusions!!!They only hear one side of an issue and may end up reinforcing her delusions by making you and your AS the cause of her problems.(there are some really unethical,unimaginative and unintelligent therapist out there.)


I know this experience must be frustrating and painful but I still think you will have a happier life once you adjust to the initial change.(right now,you may feel guilty about even considering this).I have never been married,but as a 43 year old female who has been in many destructive relationships,I have found that being alone is better then being in a bad relationship.I also think that people with As tend to attract partners with "issues" they can hide behind our "traits".I put up with some pretty horrible behavior in relationships because I was easy to convince that every thing was my fault....after all...wasnt I the "freak"?After having spent the past 4 years with someone who doesnt verbally abuse me or play mind games(he is very aspie),I realize what a good relationship can be and should be.We may have "traits" that are difficult but so do NTs(materializm,pathological lieing and manipulating,etc).
I dont think it's a we or they are "bad" just that some chemicals dont mix well and others can be fatal when mixed.

A quick question..

Does she seem up and manic for months at a time, then depressed and miserable for months at a time?

I know this is a gross over-simplification of bi-polar, but I think the defining factor is the extended length of each side.

You sure she's not BPD? (borderline personality disorder)


Read up on it if you haven't heard of it, because quite a bit of it sounds exactly like a partner I've had in the past.

"Does she seem up and manic for months at a time, then depressed and miserable for months at a time?"

Yes. Not always perhaps, but then I think she can pretend to be OK sometimes when she's not and, of course, my AS affects my ability to judge at times.

"I know this is a gross over-simplification of bi-polar, but I think the defining factor is the extended length of each side."

I know what you're saying. What soes the length of time tell you about the nature of the disorder?

"You sure she's not BPD? (borderline personality disorder)"


Actually, years ago, when she was diagnosed bipolar, I did a lot of research to understand it better. I've now forgotten much of what of what I learned, but I do remember learning about BPD and thinking to myself that it seemed like a possibly more accurate diagnosis. Please tell me more. Perhaps you could help me understand her better such that I might better be able to (indirectly) get her to seek the help that she needs.

"The reason the relationship lasted as long as it did(in my opinion)is because your own issues kept you from focusing on hers."

Yes and no. My health problems, undiagnosed AS, and all of the stresses that resulted from those as I struggled to provide and sometimes just to survive, did leave me unable to do much constructive about her disorder. But I did know there was a problem and was often very focused on it.

"I think she has been seeing her own behavior,thoughts and emotions as being "your fault"....if she lets go of this belief system her reality crumbles and she is forced to face her own demons."

Absolutely. And I am not the first. It seems to be a pattern that she not only blames any and all unhappiness on others, she goes further and demonizes them. That is what she has done to me. She went far beyond resenting the things that I actually did or didn't do. She seeths about them because she exaggerates, holds grudges, combines things to increase them in her mind, assigns motives, thoughts and feelings to me that are often wildly innaccurate and that she adamantly will not change her mind about. I don't think that she has ever reevaluated a person that she has previously demonized, which would indicate that she may possibly have reevaluated her thought processes.

'Perhaps she will do this some day.A year from now or 10,it depends on if she has severe enough consequences or depression to motivate her to seek help.As long as she has you to blame for her own issues,she has no need to question her own distorted reality.'

Perhaps, but the past discourages me. Her depressions have been pretty severe and the consequences have been pretty devestating to her relationships at times. As I have previously said, though I didn't know her then, I have to believe that depression was a huge factor in her giving custody of her children to her jerk XH when she divorced him. Her explanation to me was that she thought that he could provide for them better. She was far and away the primary care giver and they were quite young. She would have gotten considerable child support. It just never did compute with me.

When she doesn't have me to blame, she'll eventually find someone else. When she left she said that she would never get involved with anyone again. That's obviously an emotional statement meant to make me believe that I destroyed her. I not only think that she will, I'm quite sure that she will and probably relatively soon. She has never been unattached for any length of time. In fact, there is a tendency for overlapping (that is a nice way of describing it, don't you think?). So my guess is, she will think the next guy is wonderful and fall madly for him like she did w/ me and probably the others. At some point, maybe soon, maybe years later, she will not see what he does for her, only what he doesn't, which of her needs are not being met, not the ones that are. Depression will, as it always does, present itself as a towering rage focused directly on him because he will be the one that is supposed to be making her happy. She honestly believes that, in spite of what any psychologist or psychiatrist would tell you, that it is the role of partners to make each other happy, not to be happy people who share with each other.

"If her main problem is chemical,the proper medication may help,but it does little for someone who refuses to change their delusional thinking.'

Are you saying that the delusional thinking is independent of the disorder? This is quite disheartening if true.

"She can find a therepist...but unfortunatly,many seen afraid to lose clients by challenging their delusions!!!They only hear one side of an issue and may end up reinforcing her delusions by making you and your AS the cause of her problems.(there are some really unethical,unimaginative and unintelligent therapist out there.)"

She seems to be the kind of person that would not tend to seek therapy. Also, the expense would be a real factor. The type of therapist that she might see around here would be unlikely to be unethical to keep her as a client; unimaginative, unintelligent, and unobservant are the likely traits she would encounter. I have to agree with you that the likelyhood of one finding the real problems and addressing them is probably almost nil. That is a very discouraging thought.

She sounds so very similar to my ex. Grudges...the anger...just very hurtful.