Board index › Coping in life › Love and Dating

How to break the "Nice Guy" cycle

Page 3 of 4 [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,916
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

25 May 2012, 5:46 pm

spongy wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
spongy wrote:
Venger wrote:
DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
I don't think we have to stereotype NT women as a class either.
If you have research/evidence to support your claims, by all means provide it. If not, lets be done with it.



It's common knowledge that being a "womanizer" is a proven sociopath(ASPD) trait. That disorder is the opposite of aspergers in many ways which would explain a lot.


Im not sure about how common its for sociopaths to be womanizers but I´ll however point out that quite a lot of people have pointed out several similarities between as and sociopathy(and in order for that to stop there were several campaigns about stopping the comparisons and whatnot) so the second part of the post is quite inaccurate(if they were the opposite people wouldnt have said that they are extremely similar in the past...).


Ok in which ways are people with AS and Sociopathy similar?

Heres one out of many examples where they discuss the similarities between asperger and sociopathy in case you are interested
http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/showthr ... ?tid=21185 (please note that aff is known for advocating for asperger and whatnot)
Just according to the original post there:
Asperger was originally labeled "autistic psychopathy.
Aspies are very similar to sociopaths, with the most obvious exception being that sociopaths are socially charming and aspies are socially awkward
Despite the lack of empathy, one of the core traits of a sociopath
Aspies villainize sociopaths and don't even want them discussed in the same breath, even though there are clear links between autism and "bad sociopath" behavior
(That thread discusses one out of many articles that have compared asperger with sociopathy)

Im not saying that they are similar. Im saying that they´ve been said to be similar by quite a lot of people(which goes against his claim that they are the opposite)

Heres an article discussing a violent side of asperger for example http://www.sociopathworld.com/2009/04/v ... utism.html (in case you think those cases are rare/too old this website had legal issues a couple of years ago because a member ended up doing something similar to that)


I got nothing better to do then look at the links...but anyways I don't think people with aspergers lack empathy, I have plenty of it as well as other emotions its just hard for me to express that to people. So I think there is a difference between lack of empathy and difficulty expressing it I think as a rule people with AS have trouble expressing it, they don't lack it.


_________________
We won't go back.


Kurgan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,132
Location: Scandinavia

25 May 2012, 5:49 pm

There's a difference between empathy and sympathy. Sociopaths have plenty of the former, but little to none of the latter.



yellowtamarin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Sep 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,763
Location: Australia

25 May 2012, 8:17 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I'm asexual so this is probably irrelevant...but if a guy was to disagree with me just for the hell of it, not because they have an opinion either way and then make a stupid comment that sounds like they are indicating my head is too large or something I think I'd head for the door to leave.

Are you referring to the paragraph DO disagree with her? It seems to be stating it from the other angle, which I agree with -- don't AGREE just to be nice, if you do have an opposing opinion. This is different from arguing just for the sake of it, which I think most people would find a turn-off.

On another point, the article states "...you’ll look confident — which, by the way, is a turn-on for everyone." Well, last night I went on a date with a guy and was totally charmed when he realised he had been nervously fiddling with his keys and suddenly flung them to the side. Too much confidence is a turn-off for me. I think what turns me on more than confidence is a guy who will give something a go when they don't feel confident at all! Someone who seems to "have it all together" is quite boring.

I think, as has been stated elsewhere in this topic, that this article is more geared towards NT females, not every female. But even so, most of the points hold fairly true, IMO.



yellowtamarin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Sep 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,763
Location: Australia

25 May 2012, 8:21 pm

Also, I don't think these tips in the article are "bad-boy" moves at all. They are general hints that both males and females could make use of. I follow most of the stuff in the article (not deliberately, that's basically how I am naturally) and I tend to have successful dates.

(In case there is any confusion...I'm female. I'm also past my early 20s.)



Kaufmancab51
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2008
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 180
Location: Rochester, New York

26 May 2012, 12:37 am

this broke me out of it. Someone recommended it to me after I moped a bit too much on facebook. I read the articles on here and spent a summer adjusting:

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/ ... s/ng.shtml



Venger
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,519

26 May 2012, 6:04 am

Kaufmancab51 wrote:
this broke me out of it. Someone recommended it to me after I moped a bit too much on facebook. I read the articles on here and spent a summer adjusting:

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/ ... s/ng.shtml


lol, An entire website devoted to it.



DogsWithoutHorses
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2012
Age: 31
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,146
Location: New York

26 May 2012, 7:28 am

Kaufmancab51 wrote:
this broke me out of it. Someone recommended it to me after I moped a bit too much on facebook. I read the articles on here and spent a summer adjusting:

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/ ... s/ng.shtml


"Unfortunately, many of the guys who DO have trouble, insist that women don't want them because they are "too Nice". These people who call themselves "Nice Guys" can't see that THEIR OWN behavior is the problem. That behavior either drives women away or attracts the WORST kind of predator - one who is manipulative and self-serving. Whether it is targeting women who are troubled to begin with, setting themselves up to be taken advantage of, or acting in a manipulative, patronizing or obsequious fashion, these guys sabotage themselves and often blame "all women" for their misfortunes."

so far it seems like a decent resource


_________________
If your success is defined as being well adjusted to injustice and well adapted to indifference, then we don?t want successful leaders. We want great leaders- who are unbought, unbound, unafraid, and unintimidated to tell the truth.


MXH
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,057
Location: Here i stand and face the rain

26 May 2012, 10:41 am

Kurgan wrote:
The stuff about women not making the first move won't change over night, though. Centuries of inprinting this into the human mindset as well as the fact that there are more men than women below 50, means that this is just the way it is. Would you make the first move on anyone if the tables were turned and men had the passive role? I don't think most men here (including me) would.


It wont change, its nice having the upper hand



Kurgan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,132
Location: Scandinavia

26 May 2012, 10:48 am

MXH wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
The stuff about women not making the first move won't change over night, though. Centuries of inprinting this into the human mindset as well as the fact that there are more men than women below 50, means that this is just the way it is. Would you make the first move on anyone if the tables were turned and men had the passive role? I don't think most men here (including me) would.


It wont change, its nice having the upper hand


Correct. That's why men wouldn't bother hitting on women if the culture changed. If some woman didn't want them, there would always be other ones hitting on them.



Givemetaco
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

User avatar

Joined: 7 May 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 5
Location: Candyland

26 May 2012, 10:51 am

I would be a nice guy at first. But I think problem is that the Nice guy is settle, calm, harmless and probably has the energy and enthuasim of a Rock.

First, I want to say the Nice guy thing at first works if you show interest or that your nervous. I heard women like that.

Then things start to get boring ( I said Nice ones are settle, calm, harmless.) It is also true that "Girls just wanna have fun." At this point, women are expecting mischief because its fun, not as energetic, calm,etc. as a rock. I wouldn't override this becuase things are not fun when you literally harm them. Just don' break anyones heart or sprain somones ribcage.

An example I had: at this casual dinner, I'm sitting behind this girl (back to back). I push my chair back to the point that I'm pushing to her table to squeeze her but not to the point that it hurts...allot. She smiled and giggled a little and then hit me for payback. I had fun. Also we did a project together so I did everything on it because I needed to take the lead. :)


Okay, I am overeviewing this. But I do have bad examples: I had this small german excerise that was worth about -0.1% of the grade. My partner was ofcouse female. Most of us were goofing off snd so these Guys asked for some simple answers. I gave them a few and then my partner hit me telling me "NO!" she may be unattractive but[b] I disliked her for taking things seriously. :roll:



JanuaryMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jan 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,359

26 May 2012, 10:54 am

The way to break the nice guy cycle is to stop doing things not in your character in order to meet this phantom "nice guy" image. Another thing is to do this - not be afraid to be the bad guy once in a while. We all make mistakes, and we can all be ignorant, stupid, rude etc. and sometimes that's okay, you know!

Another thing from a post I made on another thread relating to the subtopic:
It's not that women don't want nice guys. In fact a lot of traits of the "ideal nice guy" are most likely on their wishlist. But just like us dudes, there's a list of essentials that have to be met. If committing to a future, women are going to want a guy that treats at least them right, perform, have some sort of stability in their lives, and be "just nice enough". Because if they are just nice enough, there is hope that the "jerk guy" as some guys here seem to see them can be changed. Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't, but no harm in trying. End of the day, being a nice guy doesn't put food on the table, feed your future kids, or equal commitment or adult responsibilities. Being a nice guy is just that, being a nice guy, and doesn't solve all of life's or a relationship's problems and needs.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,916
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

26 May 2012, 11:21 am

yellowtamarin wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I'm asexual so this is probably irrelevant...but if a guy was to disagree with me just for the hell of it, not because they have an opinion either way and then make a stupid comment that sounds like they are indicating my head is too large or something I think I'd head for the door to leave.

Are you referring to the paragraph DO disagree with her? It seems to be stating it from the other angle, which I agree with -- don't AGREE just to be nice, if you do have an opposing opinion. This is different from arguing just for the sake of it, which I think most people would find a turn-off.

On another point, the article states "...you’ll look confident — which, by the way, is a turn-on for everyone." Well, last night I went on a date with a guy and was totally charmed when he realised he had been nervously fiddling with his keys and suddenly flung them to the side. Too much confidence is a turn-off for me. I think what turns me on more than confidence is a guy who will give something a go when they don't feel confident at all! Someone who seems to "have it all together" is quite boring.

I think, as has been stated elsewhere in this topic, that this article is more geared towards NT females, not every female. But even so, most of the points hold fairly true, IMO.


Well yeah the impression I got is that you should just randomly agree or disagree based on if you feel now is the time to disagree or agree.....not your actual opinions on the matter. Seemed like it was saying to fake agreement and disagreement for the sake of the 'game' then saying 'just be open about your opinions and be honest if you disagree.' which to me would be a more rational idea.

I think I would find someone that seemed really confident intimating, even if they were not trying to be...so yeah I kind of like guys more on my level with the whole not so much confidence thing. But yeah maybe some of it holds true, I just feel like if someone uses things like that for an instruction manual I don't know that its better then just being natural, I mean I can see people wanting advice but I can see how some of that advice could backfire if used in every situation.


_________________
We won't go back.


spongy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2010
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,055
Location: Patiently waiting for the seventh wave

26 May 2012, 11:50 am

Kaufmancab51 wrote:
this broke me out of it. Someone recommended it to me after I moped a bit too much on facebook. I read the articles on here and spent a summer adjusting:

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/ ... s/ng.shtml

A friend sent me the link as well(we were discussing an acquaintance and it was relevant) and I posted it here because I thought it was quite enlightening(like crap I do this and I do that and I need to work on those) so I posted a thread about it.

The thread turned into a heated discussion because apparently some members felt depressed after reading it because they thought of themselves as basket cases



J-Greens
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 669

26 May 2012, 3:30 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Would you make the first move on anyone if the tables were turned and men had the passive role? I don't think most men here (including me) would.


Are you saying that if, just if, a girl asked me out, I turn her down? ... speechless. You could not be more wrong. Ever. After 24 f*****g years of nothing, you think I'd turn ANY girl down?

Kurgan wrote:
Correct. That's why men wouldn't bother hitting on women if the culture changed. If some woman didn't want them, there would always be other ones hitting on them.


That's the attitude women have already. Even normal guys would be so shocked if a girl actually hit-on-them they would not turn her down. Not once.

I half suspect Kurgan's being sarcastic here...I really hope.

I've repeatedly thought about turning into a complete bastard and oppose every value I hold - you know, respect, manners etc...if I got just ONE date because of it.



edgewaters
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,427
Location: Ontario

26 May 2012, 4:55 pm

J-Greens wrote:
Are you saying that if, just if, a girl asked me out, I turn her down? ... speechless. You could not be more wrong. Ever. After 24 f***ing years of nothing, you think I'd turn ANY girl down?


Nobody goes after anyone who will take just anybody, so it's not a situation you're likely to run into.



Kurgan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,132
Location: Scandinavia

26 May 2012, 5:01 pm

J-Greens wrote:
Are you saying that if, just if, a girl asked me out, I turn her down? ... speechless. You could not be more wrong. Ever. After 24 f***ing years of nothing, you think I'd turn ANY girl down?


Let's say that the dating culture changed over night 15 years ago and since then, women were the one's who had to make the first move and by now, this was the established standard. Would you accept most of the girls hitting on YOU? Would you bother to make the first move on a girl if girls were the ones who were supposed to make the first move on you? Don't hate girls; if anything, hate the current designated standards.

Kurgan wrote:
I half suspect Kurgan's being sarcastic here...I really hope.

I've repeatedly thought about turning into a complete bastard and oppose every value I hold - you know, respect, manners etc...if I got just ONE date because of it.


I'm being tongue-in-cheek, not sarcastic. Why risk rejection, public humiliation and all that if you can get away by being passive? Let's rephrase it: Would you bother to write applications for jobs if potential employers offered you one well-paid job after another and were competing against other employers to hire you?