Open Marriage

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IlovemyAspie
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27 May 2012, 4:05 pm

waitykatie wrote:

KTodd wrote:

So she's not monogamous so if I stay with her I'm in an open marriage regardless if i say yes or no to it.

So in other words, asking you was just a polite formality. To relieve her of the guilt for something she's probably going to do anyway. That strikes me as the real issue: it's going to be on her terms either way. That would be a dealbreaker for me, kids or not.

Thats why I said if my mate asked me about an open relationship I would, think something had already happened. It was just a way to gauge his reaction.

KTodd
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27 May 2012, 6:00 pm

simon_says wrote:

I think you need to find out how serious she is about it. Just mentioning a preference doesnt mean it's a deal breaker for your marriage. Maybe she's content with the fantasy of it. When I was in my 20s I was approached by maybe 4-5 different couples to be a third wheel for a night. You'd be surprised how often couples deviate from accepted norms.

If you did go ahead with it you might suggest yearly swinging outings as a couple. I'm sure you'll find other couples with her helping to draw them in, and this gets you involved to even the scales. That could be in addition to the "open" thing or as a replacement for it. You'd also need to come with a list of rules. Do you tell each other when it happens? Does there have to be some parity before it continues? Is it one time only per partner?

But it doesnt really sound like you are into it. You'll need to check with her to get a more detailed impression of what's what.

It’s not just a fantasy for her. I think she’s definitely into seeing other men. I don’t think she has anyone immediately in mind but then I wonder why she’s pushing it recently. The swinger or group sex thing appeals to me but I think I’m most comfortable with it in fantasy. I have offered to do the swinger thing but she’s not into it. Mainly I think because there are no suitable couples. Either we know them too well and it would just be awkward or it would be with strangers and equally awkward. Also she prefers just one-on-one which hurts me because I feel that’s more than sex. I don’t need parity but I feel it’s just going to be her going out and I will have nothing. Also, she doesn’t want any rules on it. I think I would rather know than have my imagination run wild but she prefers that we don’t tell each other.

KTodd
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27 May 2012, 6:15 pm

IlovemyAspie wrote:

waitykatie wrote:

KTodd wrote:

So she's not monogamous so if I stay with her I'm in an open marriage regardless if i say yes or no to it.

Thats why I said if my mate asked me about an open relationship I would, think something had already happened. It was just a way to gauge his reaction.

I think in most situations the suggestion of an open marriage would be to cover for something that’s already happened or as an exit strategy out of the relationship maybe along the lines of proposing the open marriage as a way of ending the relationship without too much guilt where of course the other person will say no and the person proposing the open marriage can feel like they tried. However, I don’t think that’s happening here. Maybe because I’m so close to it and in denial. I think she honestly thinks she has some needs that I can’t meet and though she loves me she sees this as a way of keeping us together.

But I do feel forced into the open marriage and I’ve countered with ways that makes the proposition appealing to me but she’s reluctant to meet my desires. If we were dating it would be easy and the relationship would be done with but I’m scared of divorce. I grew up in a divorced family and I just don’t feel what’s happened so far is grounds for divorce. I know for many it is but I’m scared. I don’t want to be alone. I don’t want her to move onto someone else and then he’s raising my kids.

I’m also feeling resentful that recently I figured out that I likely have Aspergers and that this explains a lot of my hurtful behaviors towards her and so now I’m trying to work out how to improve my relationships with her and my family but now that she’s thrown this at me I’m consumed with thinking about open marriage rather than fundamentally improving the core of myself as a person.

edgewaters
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27 May 2012, 6:24 pm

Leave this thread open where she can see it, maybe.

KTodd
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27 May 2012, 6:28 pm

simon_says wrote:

Quote:

She did cheat on me once a year ago when we were going through a difficult time. I didn't realize that it was so difficult that it warranted cheating but she says she felt completely unloved by me at the time. She's also tried cheating at other times in the past but was turned down by the guy. So she's not monogamous so if I stay with her I'm in an open marriage regardless if i say yes or no to it.

For a cheater to drop the open relationship bomb one year after cheating is a very bad sign, in my opinion. That's not much time to heal, let alone jump into something you arent sure about. Thumbs down. But I think you really need a lot more details about where she is. What you've typed sounds bad but I'm sure she'd tell it another way.

She cheated a year ago and although I suspected strongly that something happened when she didn't come home until 3am I didn't have confirmation until a few weeks ago when she admitted it when bring up the proposition of an open marriage. Not that likely makes a difference but I just wanted to put it in the right context. Overall I’m a nice guy but like a lot of “nice guys” I have a lot of issues that are not apparent until I’m in a relationship. I can be demanding, passive-aggressive, resentful, etc. so I understand why she has problems with me. Realizing recently that I likely have Aspergers has made me understand that I’m not perfect and I really have some serious issues. I think we need to work out our relationship problems before we start an open marriage or this is just the beginning of the end. I thought we had come to this conclusion a few weeks ago when she first proposed it but now she’s pushing it again.

KTodd
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27 May 2012, 6:29 pm

edgewaters wrote:

Leave this thread open where she can see it, maybe.

I'm thinking about letting her know about this and letting her contribute her view. She knows I look at Wrong Planet so it's likely she'll find this on her own if she checks in the next few days.

waitykatie
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27 May 2012, 6:48 pm

KTodd wrote:

But I do feel forced into the open marriage and I’ve countered with ways that makes the proposition appealing to me but she’s reluctant to meet my desires. If we were dating it would be easy and the relationship would be done with but I’m scared of divorce. I grew up in a divorced family and I just don’t feel what’s happened so far is grounds for divorce. I know for many it is but I’m scared. I don’t want to be alone. I don’t want her to move onto someone else and then he’s raising my kids.

I’m also feeling resentful that recently I figured out that I likely have Aspergers and that this explains a lot of my hurtful behaviors towards her and so now I’m trying to work out how to improve my relationships with her and my family but now that she’s thrown this at me I’m consumed with thinking about open marriage rather than fundamentally improving the core of myself as a person.

That's what stinks about this. You've made efforts, and are willing to continue making efforts, to meet her needs. Yet it doesn't sound like she's willing to reciprocate. You also have perfectly legitimate fears and resentment, that seems to be going unrecognized. Have you said these things to her? Pretty powerful. Also, perhaps consider seeing a marriage counselor, to have an objective third party help you communicate, and identify everyone's needs and propose ways they could be met. I agree: the focus should be on working with AS, as a family, not on her push for an "open marriage."

There is another option, which some people choose: the marital relationship transitions to a "roommates" relationship. The couple continues to live under the same roof and raise the children together, but otherwise they lead separate lives. I imagine it would be hard to think of her as a roommate and not care what she's up to, but that would give you the opportunity to focus on AS, and your relationship with the children. It's also possible that living with the way she has alienated you might "scare her straight."

IlovemyAspie
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27 May 2012, 7:37 pm

Here's the thing about divorce and kids. When you stay in a relationship that is unhealthy for you it becomes unhealthy for the kids. Merely living in the same house isn't what's good for the children. Seeing both parents happy with each other and interacting in a loving way is what is good for them. It is now obvious an open marriage is not what you want. This is going to be evident in your behavior. Kids are smart and know when things aren't right. I know of one child who told her parents to get a divorce because the relationship was hard on everyone including the kids. All the while the parents were thinking they were staying together "for the kids".

Divorce is scary. But it seems she's not going to let this go. You are going to have to decide soon because I don't think she's going to take no for an answer so its going to be on you.

When you take sex out of the equation, how is your relationship?

HisDivineMajesty
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27 May 2012, 9:01 pm

This story is starting to become more and more startling and upsetting. Faced with such a situation, I imagine you're under a lot of pressure. What I noticed from some details is that your wife isn't new to cheating on you. From what I understand, she has already cheated on you, and is now looking for an excuse to do that more often. You said she's flirty and she knows you'd have more difficulties picking up women.

It looks to me, and I've been mostly neutral so far, that it's her nature. If she cheats once, it might be an incident. If she offers you a system in which you feel uncomfortable and jealous and she benefits most, it's definitely her nature. You seem to be very reluctant about the idea - and rightly so! She's a mother. Even though my father didn't do anything like this, I felt quite paranoid when he was away until late in the evening if there were problems at work. There's no reason for you or your children to accept the feeling that someone is undermining your family. Uncertainty is at the base of a lot of problems. Now that she's proposed structural cheating mostly for her own benefit, it's a structural problem.

That's my analysis. As for the solutions, I agree with the sentiment I feel here. If you don't want to do this, she's simply trying to use a weaker moment in your life to push through her ideas in your relationship. If she insists, don't give in if you don't feel positive (not just tolerant) about it - simply look for help elsewhere. Call in the auxiliaries, find real-life advice from someone who is used to dealing with these delicate issues.

IlovemyAspie
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27 May 2012, 9:24 pm

"Structural cheating" that's a good way to describe what's going on.

simon_says
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27 May 2012, 10:01 pm

KTodd wrote:

No rules? lol. Just whatever she wants, whenever? That doesnt sound very reasonable.

From what you've said it sounds ridiculous. Bad all the way down. But maybe it's not as bad as it sounds. You need more information either way.

DogsWithoutHorses
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27 May 2012, 11:21 pm

In any case, you should really have a long, in-depth, honest conversation with your Wife and then decide on a plan of action that meets your needs.
While I think this topic includes a lot of interesting perspectives and advice, it's really a personal thing, we only have half the story, and we all have our own baggage.
good luck!

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Wolfheart
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28 May 2012, 12:20 am

I agree, staying in a unhealthy relationship with children around will only hinder their potential. She has decided to put her needs before that greater good by following her desires instead of doing what is best for her children. It's likely that she perceives you as the provider or support guy and has decided she can have her cake and eat it. I really can't see anything positive coming out of this, I would simply take the kids and do a runner to somewhere warm like Spain.

Senath
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28 May 2012, 10:10 am

Speaking from personal experience, when both my fiance and I broached the subject of having other sexual encounters we had not engaged in any sexual activity outside of our relationship. Of course, I can't speak with certainty regarding him, but when I brought the idea up it was because I had recently considered the idea, decided to bring it up with him, and bought some material to go over together as a guide to make sure rules were set. And in the end, we both listened to each others feelings on the subject, he told me that he would feel rejected if I did it and why, and I decided it wasn't that important.

You didn't mention earlier that she cheated already. That sheds a new light on things. Of course, people change, but she's already given you evidence that she is going to go ahead with something that the two of you haven't agreed upon.

I really suggest being as upfront and honest as possible about your feelings regarding jealousy and sadness, and be open to hear things from her perspective as well. That doesn't mean you have to change your opinions or feelings, but it may be easier to understand her if you can do a little empathizing. That goes for her as well.

NicoleG
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28 May 2012, 10:24 am

I'm obviously going to be in the minority here.

1000Knives wrote:

Ask to move to Utah and get a few extra wives in the house.

That's polygomy, not polyamory or an open sexual-only marriage.

waitykatie wrote:

She SHOULD feel guilty.

Only according to puritanical standards.

questor wrote:

Open marriages only work when both partners are swingers.

That's not true.
Open marriage works when everyone involved agrees to the ground rules.

IlovemyAspie wrote:

You said you felt jealous and betrayed, if you already feel this way, an open marriage is not going to make you feel any better or any different.

This is true, the open marriage does not automatically make those feelings go away. A couple that pursues an open relationship of any sort will have to work through those feelings of jealousy and betrayal in order to arrive at acceptance. It's a form of death of an idea (the idea of monogamy), and as such is no different than going through the 5 stages of death. Not everyone can do this, but many are more capable than believed.

To the OP:
Might I suggest both you and your wife read up about open marriage and/or polymory and mutually discuss what you would both be okay with? I recommend reading Opening Up. The most important thing is that neither of you are lying to yourselves about your own wants, desires, and worries. Do not lie to yourself and say you will be okay with something if deep down you are not. An open relationship of any sort requires utmost honesty between everyone involved. You may need to find someone who has a good understanding of open relationships with whom you can discuss your own feelings as you work through whether or not you want to accept her request. Making a logical decision to allow it (if that is the route you take) isn't going to change how you will have to work through accepting it, which is going to be a pretty bumpy emotional ride. Jealousy stems from the fear of loss and is typically exacerbated at first by the worry that this means the dissolution of your own relationship with her. She's also going to have to do her part of allaying your fears and proving that this doesn't mean she wants to leave you. Having someone with whom you can discuss these feelings as you go through them are important. Every couple that I know who has pursued an open relationship has had to go through this stage of acceptance.

A friend of mine that went through it described it as two ships at sea. If they are tethered together too closely, the rough tides cause them more problems. It is best for each captain to pilot their own ship independently yet chose to remain very close to each other. It was his way of accepting letting go of co-dependence. They have a wonderful marriage now, and he cares about her boyfriend as though he was a brother, and he couldn't imagine a more happier home life.

If you don't want to allow it, then it's important that you both discuss what alternative changes you might can make in the relationship to meet her needs. You are both captains of your own ships, and she does seem determined on her course. The question is whether or not you can let go enough that she can freely pilot her own ship and yet still be willing to pilot your ship near hers.

IlovemyAspie
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28 May 2012, 10:47 am

NicoleG wrote:

I'm obviously going to be in the minority here.

1000Knives wrote:

Ask to move to Utah and get a few extra wives in the house.

That's polygomy, not polyamory or an open sexual-only marriage.

waitykatie wrote:

She SHOULD feel guilty.

Only according to puritanical standards.

questor wrote:

Open marriages only work when both partners are swingers.

That's not true.
Open marriage works when everyone involved agrees to the ground rules.

IlovemyAspie wrote:

You said you felt jealous and betrayed, if you already feel this way, an open marriage is not going to make you feel any better or any different.

I think its clear he doesn't want this. He's just trying to convince himself he can somehow be okay with it because he feels he's being forced into this and has no choice.

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