I think it's all about the Tomboy girls

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Well done to all of you - I am now completely and utterly confused as to what a "tomboy" actually refers too.

*agrees*

Practical, a little bit tough, and not high maintenance I think?

My wife is tomboy the the extent of actual gender disphoria(truly identifies with the idea of being a guy moreso than a girl). It's only until the last year-ish that she's, I dunno, femmed-out a bit?

I think there's a possibility of Aspie gals having a stronger propensity for perceived tomboyishness simply because being on the autism spectrum can cause one to fall out of step with commonly accepted gender stereotypes.

Gender is, after all, subject to both genetic and epigenetic factors. And since those of us on the spectrum often misread the intent behind these epigenetic pressures(ie we don't accept the idea traditional masculinity/femininity because it doesn't make logical sense to us), that can cause us to act in a way that does not synch with those expectations.

And even though we have yet to fully determine how strongly genetics determine gender roles, there is evidence that it plays a substantial part also.

And as far as the OP's point goes: ultimately, one can't help much what they are attracted to. There are all sorts of factors that go into these things, and personal choice is the very least.

I would have to disagree with the commonly held definition for Tomboy.

Tomboy only is commonly defined as "masculine girl" because most individuals see gender as a binary thing, which is demonstrably untrue for anyone who knows anything about anthropology or sociology.

Even multiple Native American tribes, who so many have(falsely) considered culturally primitive, have the concept of the "twin-souled." Many tribes allowed for the gender definition and practice of feminine man and masculine woman, and allowed them to fulfill those roles(yes Native Americans beat us to the punch on Gay marriage, technically).

Culture definines gender roles, essentially.

Oh, and don't forget androgyny as well(and unfortunately even the etymology of the word suggest binary gender roles, andro having to do with masculine and gyny with feminine).

Basically, I'd argue that Tomboy is most often used as a blanket term to categorize women who do not confirm to the hetero normative gender standards of Western culture. It's not so much the presence of masculinity as it is the perceived absence of accepted femininity.

My (male) flatmate asked me why I never do anything to my hair, or why I wear jeans and t-shirts all the time, and I replied 'out of practicality, why do you never do anything to your hair or wear anything other than jeans and t-shirts?' He just looked at me and nodded and said 'yeah but you're "distinctively tomboy" (don't know what he meant by this) though. Most guys don't care about stuff like that, I thought it was just a guy thing to be practical.' Argh!

Me also

@Cad, I've ruined clothing doing unexpected handy-work at friend's houses. Jeans and a t-shirt wouldn't be ruined under those circumstances. I have loads of t-shirts for that kind of work. They give you a t-shirt at the local bloodbank when you make a donation of blood. I have at least 20 of those used mostly for getting messy.

When my graffiti has stirred up conversations on forums for this area everyone assumes a male did it and I really think they take the messages more seriously because of that.

Cheers to all the tomboys in the world!

I'm going to be proposing to a tomboy who's into In Flames and other metal, loves rough housing as foreplay, fixes things around her house, and then all of a sudden melts when I try to romance her (even if it comes across as awkward). She loves to wear black and either jean jacket or leather jackets. She always speaks confidently and always shows independence even when I want to be there for her. I think the best thing about her though is that when she melts into my arms, she lets me treat her like a queen even though she tries so hard to make it on her own. I can't wait to marry her.

Yes! I collect t-shirts from all over the place, especially political ones haha. Graffiti is for everyone. Tell your message to the world

I thought guys don't notice us tomboy types!

I'm pretty androgynous (clothing style) and I have a guys sense of humor I think.

I'm pretty laid back and I don't like girly things like dresses, high heels, purses, getting my nails done, or gossip! I can't stand any of that stuff>_<

I'm also very flat chested so I feel boyish...but I know some guys that like that.

Guys think I'm cool too^^

Also I wouldn't mind if a guy wore some eyeliner;)

Really genderbent people are awesome in general.

Er, because this seems like a site that would put up with nitpicking...

Epigenetic refers to changes in genetic regulation (i.e. methylation, DNA packing, acetylation, other histone modification.) It may not be genetic, but it's still a low-level biological thing. I doubt that societal pressure is methylating your DNA (well, perhaps through some massively complex hormonally controlled process.) At any rate, I do get what you're saying about societal pressure affecting gender, and affecting our genders less.

i'm gonna nitpick your nitpicking. you're confusing gender (one definition, as Sagroth intends it) and sex.

gender = Sexual identity, especially in relation to society or culture.
sex = The condition or character of being female or male; the physiological, functional, and psychological differences that distinguish the female and the male.

And I'm going to nitpick your nitpicking of nitpicking and say that gender identity and sexual identity are completely separate things. Now sure what I'm trying to accomplish by doing that or whos side I'm even on here.

Personally I think both sexual and gender identity are largely societal constructs anyway and if more people would be more honest with themselves the binaries of male and female and gay and straight would cease to exist entirely.

i don't think we disagree. i think the definitions i posted weren't clear - i stole them off of the internet. maybe a better way of putting it:



http://www.med.monash.edu.au/gendermed/ ... ender.html

Indeed, I misunderstood. I apologize. we're basically saying the same thing.