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TM
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13 Sep 2012, 2:40 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:
A: That's a sh***y neg.

B: He's doing it wrong.

You don't neg someone like "You know, if you had a nose and a boob job, I may let you blow me" you neg them as in "You know, a pretty girl like you should take better care of her nails" or "A smart girl like you shouldn't be seen reading Harry Potter in public". It's meant as a backhanded compliment, not an insult. "I love that scarf, my grandmother has the exact same one!" is another example.

Also, negging is not something that you're supposed to use on every type of woman. It's something reserved for those women who 9/10 men would fawn over and desperately seek validation from. By "negging" her IE showing that you are not intimidated by her social status/beauty etc, you balance out the power dynamic by acting in a manner that the person isn't accustomed to. It's similar to how you show a girl who gets hardly any attention tons of it, and fawn over her to get her.


Do people actually believe this stuff?
I mean...in all seriousness, they believe it?


It works, that's the crazy thing about it. Not on everyone, but as I once told a woman who was ranting about a book called "The Game" by Neil Strauss, and how "it would never work on any woman", "It worked nicely on you didn't it?".

Other things that work:
The "Who lies more, men or women?" opener.

The "I'm having a discussion with my friend and we need a woman's opinion, his girlfriend just moved in and is demanding that he throws away all the love letters his ex sendt him, should he do it?"

Pop psychology games.

Almost any type of cold reading technique.

The beautiful thing is that just about every woman thinks herself immune to it when she reads about it, but quite a lot of them fall for it in practice.



Kjas
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13 Sep 2012, 2:42 pm

meems wrote:
I think this stuff would've worked on me when I was 15.

But when I was 15 I was busy being super enormous and only having guys(and girls) openly mock me for my weight. After that I was pretty uncomfortable with anyone making comments about my body, even after I'd lost all of the weight. That extended to my clothing and appearance etc.


Two things concern me with this:

1) That guys think that it is valid to take it this far (I've seen them fail miserably at it before, but still)

2) That they have enough success with this to keep doing it.

I have to seriously question the average mind of women if they actually fall for this stuff. It means we have a much bigger problem at hand if their self esteem and boundaries are that low, that they crave attention from people like this.

And it bothers me that it works enough for PUA's to promote it in the first place.

(And just for the record, I feel compelled to point out that I am talking about stupid and unacceptable negs - not good naturing teasing and joking)


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TM
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13 Sep 2012, 2:54 pm

Kjas wrote:
Two things concern me with this:

1) That guys think that it is valid to take it this far (I've seen them fail miserably at it before, but still)

2) That they have enough success with this to keep doing it.

I have to seriously question the average mind of women if they actually fall for this stuff. It means we have a much bigger problem at hand if their self esteem and boundaries are that low, that they crave attention from people like this.

(And just for the record, I feel compelled to point out that I am talking about stupid and unacceptable negs, not good natturing teasing and joking)


Your 1 and 2 are somewhat connected to your last sentence. A lot of guys fail at doing what should in essence be good natured teasing/joking and become rude and insulting all the while thinking that they are doing it correctly. After trying it a few times, they find some girl with low enough self-esteem to need their validation who then gives them some success and they continue on being insulting and rude instead of appearing playful and humorous. Of course, given the track-record I've noted for "sense of humor" on this forum, I'm expecting quite a few people to right now be typing "humorous definition" into google.



hyperlexian
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13 Sep 2012, 3:15 pm

i think there is a line between good-natured teasing and insults wrapped up in semi-compliments. but even good-natured teasing can be taken too far and can hurt someone's feelings instead of working as an opener. both men and women can poke at each other in fun, and it can be a way of flirting. but if there is any element of seriousness in it then it can have potential to be a turn-off.


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13 Sep 2012, 3:41 pm

meems wrote:
A guy I've known for a few months who seemed pretty averse to me from the moment I met him, almost like he was doing it intentionally for attention, ran into me today and I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to pretend he doesn't exist from now on. I'm cool with people disliking me but when they go out of their way to make half-joking comments putting me down, that just makes me want to get away from them whenever possible. So I'd been avoiding this guy for a while.

Today at school he sat down next to me in the TV lounge in the student recreation center. I was pretty startled. He asked if I'd gained weight, I sort of brushed off the question because he's an ass.

A few minutes later he told me he would ask me on a date if I would lose the 10lbs-15lbs I've put on during recovering from numerous bone fractures. I laughed pretty hard at the idea of going on a date with someone who has been a jerk to me since I met him. Then I packed up my stuff and moved on to entertaining a group of strangers with shenanigans.

It seems like most guys who ask me out or whatever do so after acting like complete and utter jerks and getting to the point where I avoid them. I'm usually very surprised by it, but why is this how so many guys seem to go about getting a date?

This seems to happen a lot, and since I've decided to focus on school and remove myself from the dating world for the school year, which I haven't told anyone outside of WP, it seems to be happening on a weekly basis. Could they think I'm playing hard to get or something? Wtf?


It's called he's a socially awkward loser and read some PUA crap and decided to try to "neg" you.



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13 Sep 2012, 4:48 pm

There is the "international game" too, it's the same game but applied to foreigner women (usually girls in their twenties), and the "gamers" call these girls "flags", not "women" or "people", they call them "flags". The purpose of this international game is to collect (have sex) with a flag (foreigner woman) of every country in the world. The man who has all the flags of the world is a winner.

The funniest thing is that gamers think they are cool when in fact they are guys without personality, strongly influenced by the generic "personality" of the pseudo-psychologist narrator of a bestseller book, 15 dollars in the nearest mall.

Men with a personality would never use these programmed methods. :roll:


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13 Sep 2012, 4:52 pm

TM wrote:
Your 1 and 2 are somewhat connected to your last sentence. A lot of guys fail at doing what should in essence be good natured teasing/joking and become rude and insulting all the while thinking that they are doing it correctly. After trying it a few times, they find some girl with low enough self-esteem to need their validation who then gives them some success and they continue on being insulting and rude instead of appearing playful and humorous. Of course, given the track-record I've noted for "sense of humor" on this forum, I'm expecting quite a few people to right now be typing "humorous definition" into google.


The PUA is suppose to teach confidence when a man approaches a woman, however some do get it wrong by breaking down women to build themselves up. This guy could be a natural jock and been doing it without ever reading PUA. PUA uses some of this style. Not all of it is bad. :)



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13 Sep 2012, 5:28 pm

TM wrote:
Your 1 and 2 are somewhat connected to your last sentence. A lot of guys fail at doing what should in essence be good natured teasing/joking and become rude and insulting all the while thinking that they are doing it correctly. After trying it a few times, they find some girl with low enough self-esteem to need their validation who then gives them some success and they continue on being insulting and rude instead of appearing playful and humorous. Of course, given the track-record I've noted for "sense of humor" on this forum, I'm expecting quite a few people to right now be typing "humorous definition" into google.


I take you point (esp SOH bit :lol: )

However, teasing someone is not supposed to be an attempt to gain power over another. As soon as you attempt to gain power, they have already crossed the line.

Engaging someone and encouraging an equal response is different from an attempt to maniplate in order to gain power, which is what the term "neg" inherently implies.


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13 Sep 2012, 5:52 pm

Kjas wrote:
TM wrote:
Your 1 and 2 are somewhat connected to your last sentence. A lot of guys fail at doing what should in essence be good natured teasing/joking and become rude and insulting all the while thinking that they are doing it correctly. After trying it a few times, they find some girl with low enough self-esteem to need their validation who then gives them some success and they continue on being insulting and rude instead of appearing playful and humorous. Of course, given the track-record I've noted for "sense of humor" on this forum, I'm expecting quite a few people to right now be typing "humorous definition" into google.


I take you point (esp SOH bit :lol: )

However, teasing someone is not supposed to be an attempt to gain power over another. As soon as you attempt to gain power, they have already crossed the line.

Engaging someone and encouraging an equal response is different from an attempt to maniplate in order to gain power, which is what the term "neg" inherently implies.


The other day I was reading one of the books on the subject and one of the things that he said was that he tried to approach women like he knew them already(make them feel like they have a huge connection because it looks like theyve known each other for a long period...)
Light teasing can help giving them the idea that they are more comfortable around you than what they really are and it can give the impression that youve known each other for a longer period so Id encourage that kind of thing



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13 Sep 2012, 8:24 pm

I guess I'm safe from PUA stuff! Unless part of the PUA thing is being socially awkward and sitting by yourself with your nose in a book at the back of the library, which is the kind of thing I find to be adorable. :)

I'm usually the one doing the light teasing(not thinly veiled insults) but generally only after I'm comfortable enough with someone to do that kind of thing.



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13 Sep 2012, 8:48 pm

meems wrote:
Hey ValentineWiggin, a pretty lady like you shouldn't be so clever. What, do you read books and think for yourself as well?

TM DID I DO IT RIGHT? IS VALENTINEWIGGIN GOING TO MARRY ME NOW?


Naw, there had to be an insult for me to be truly-smitten.
I think. :?


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13 Sep 2012, 8:55 pm

spongy wrote:

The other day I was reading one of the books on the subject and one of the things that he said was that he tried to approach women like he knew them already(make them feel like they have a huge connection because it looks like theyve known each other for a long period...)
Light teasing can help giving them the idea that they are more comfortable around you than what they really are and it can give the impression that youve known each other for a longer period so Id encourage that kind of thing

I think that kinda thing (adopting the right mindset and getting into 'character', so to speak) can be enormously helpful, and not just in dating, nor even just in communication. The problem is that I can see Aspies who try this as just coming off as overly-familiar and creepy. The things which NT's can do with ease just somehow don't translate, often.


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They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
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13 Sep 2012, 9:04 pm

TM wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:
A: That's a sh***y neg.

B: He's doing it wrong.

You don't neg someone like "You know, if you had a nose and a boob job, I may let you blow me" you neg them as in "You know, a pretty girl like you should take better care of her nails" or "A smart girl like you shouldn't be seen reading Harry Potter in public". It's meant as a backhanded compliment, not an insult. "I love that scarf, my grandmother has the exact same one!" is another example.

Also, negging is not something that you're supposed to use on every type of woman. It's something reserved for those women who 9/10 men would fawn over and desperately seek validation from. By "negging" her IE showing that you are not intimidated by her social status/beauty etc, you balance out the power dynamic by acting in a manner that the person isn't accustomed to. It's similar to how you show a girl who gets hardly any attention tons of it, and fawn over her to get her.


Do people actually believe this stuff?
I mean...in all seriousness, they believe it?


It works, that's the crazy thing about it. Not on everyone, but as I once told a woman who was ranting about a book called "The Game" by Neil Strauss, and how "it would never work on any woman", "It worked nicely on you didn't it?".

Other things that work:
The "Who lies more, men or women?" opener.

The "I'm having a discussion with my friend and we need a woman's opinion, his girlfriend just moved in and is demanding that he throws away all the love letters his ex sendt him, should he do it?"

Pop psychology games.

Almost any type of cold reading technique.

The beautiful thing is that just about every woman thinks herself immune to it when she reads about it, but quite a lot of them fall for it in practice.


Answering intriguing questions means one is "falling for something"?
And how does it translate to DATING a woman?
I would answer, say "I hope I helped", and walk away, thinking it totally-bizarre and a bit scary that a complete stranger approached me.


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They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
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13 Sep 2012, 10:02 pm

The way it's phrased as "falls for it" as though the lady-creature was duped, kind of illustrates why I think that sort of behavior is creepy and used by guys who can't do better than to put women down in order to build themselves up. If the intent is to trick or deceive, that's really off-putting.

Muhahaha I will trick these girl-animals with their tiny girl-brains and they will be all over my inferior lazy-stick!! !!

Like that!



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13 Sep 2012, 10:48 pm

meems wrote:
Muhahaha I will trick these girl-animals with their tiny girl-brains and they will be all over my inferior lazy-stick!! !!


:lmao:

I *knew* there was a reason I enjoyed making these types uncomfortable on purpose! :lol: :razz:


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14 Sep 2012, 12:59 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:
meems wrote:
Hey ValentineWiggin, a pretty lady like you shouldn't be so clever. What, do you read books and think for yourself as well?

TM DID I DO IT RIGHT? IS VALENTINEWIGGIN GOING TO MARRY ME NOW?


Naw, there had to be an insult for me to be truly-smitten.
I think. :?


Hey you.
That dress looks hideous but Im sure I could find something that looks good on you in no time.

As for the post where you quoted me:
"Gurus" claim their advice can be applicable outside of a dating scenario and it´ll work on any kind of interaction. In most cases the advice seems to be misguided but I thought that one was okay.

As for finding whats acceptable and what not: trial and error should work for most people.
Ive been doing this whole light teasing for years and Im still figuring out why some people overreact to certain jokes and why those should be avoided.