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Please help me (NT woman) understand. All advice welcome.

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BlueMax
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27 Dec 2012, 7:30 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:
You're being ridiculous. She disagreed with your interpretation, and that means she hates you?
Also, she wasn't accepting anything "from a woman" as opposed to "from a man"; rather, she was waiting to hear what happened from one of the people who was actually involved in the situation.

No, I'm not being ridiculous. Her vendetta goes far deeper than this one thread, ever since I mentioned it was rude to tell strangers to f**k off if they approach her. Since then, all my points are met with ridicule and hostility. All.
And while I and Kjas had the same point that he was likely shutting down from interpreted hostility, meems accepted it from Kjas and not from me.
Vendettas are ridiculous.



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27 Dec 2012, 7:41 pm

BlueMax wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
You're being ridiculous. She disagreed with your interpretation, and that means she hates you?
Also, she wasn't accepting anything "from a woman" as opposed to "from a man"; rather, she was waiting to hear what happened from one of the people who was actually involved in the situation.

No, I'm not being ridiculous. Her vendetta goes far deeper than this one thread, ever since I mentioned it was rude to tell strangers to f**k off if they approach her. Since then, all my points are met with ridicule and hostility. All.
And while I and Kjas had the same point that he was likely shutting down from interpreted hostility, meems accepted it from Kjas and not from me.
Vendettas are ridiculous.


Ok - I am just going to point out a few things.

Blue, when I read your post - to me it seemed that you simply suggested that he was angry and therefore avoiding and ignoring her. You might want to keep in mind that perhaps that was the way meems took your post. It did not seem you were sugesting he may have overloaded and had a shutdown - nor did the language you used reflect that you thought that.

And meems didn't agree with me, she was still skeptical, and with good reason - without input from the OP and futher information, we really didn't have much to work with.


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BlueMax
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27 Dec 2012, 8:41 pm

mmmm.... yes. I neglected to mention that. Doesn't change the vendetta thing, but it's worth going back and trying to clarify what I was trying to say earlier.

I haven't been as clear in thought since I stopped sleeping again... :oops:



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27 Dec 2012, 10:41 pm

Oh ffs, bluemax, I disagreed with you about something ages ago and you went all victim complex about it. I figured at that point it was nothing big. You're still on about it, apparently, and saying I passionately hate all men(or at least you) and I have a vendetta against you.

Is this why you responded to my joke in the adult section by accusing me of being full of hate or whatever? All of your points are met with hostility? I've only responded a few times and not much elsewhere because I got the impression you were being passive aggressive with me after that MILD disagreement and I had no desire to figure out what's going on in your head, I didn't even want to know. Guess it was something big for you.

Well, to clarify, I don't passionately feel anything about you or men in general, but your narcissism is becoming more obvious and it's sort of repulsive.

I'm going to stop there, this thread really isn't about this. So yeah.


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28 Dec 2012, 3:32 am

Right. Whatever.



DefinitelyKmart
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28 Dec 2012, 3:52 am

Me: I am exhausted from work, feel sick to my stomach, and in general feel like I'm losing it. I am so upset.
Him: Why are you upset?

In this brief passage i actually think you haven't understood the conversation rather than the opposite, by saying "why are you upset" hes allowing/Cueing you to continue the conversation and open upto him, i know you thought you had actually listed valid reasons for being upset, but read back their is no real logical connection, i know it may not seem like this, but he wanted you to go into specifics.


Look the phone call thing is a weird one, i am not great with conflict.. if i do not want to go out with a friend, i dread to call them and tell them so, (in the sense of me cancelling) maybe he felt like he couldn't be of use, or just didn't want to put up with that conversation.
Or alternatively he could just be being an ass, which is a possibility we always have to deal with, sometimes i allow myself to not maintain high standards of behaviour and pass it off as an aspie thing...



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28 Dec 2012, 5:10 am

DefinitelyKmart wrote:
Me: I am exhausted from work, feel sick to my stomach, and in general feel like I'm losing it. I am so upset.
Him: Why are you upset?

In this brief passage i actually think you haven't understood the conversation rather than the opposite, by saying "why are you upset" hes allowing/Cueing you to continue the conversation and open upto him, i know you thought you had actually listed valid reasons for being upset, but read back their is no real logical connection, i know it may not seem like this, but he wanted you to go into specifics.

Exactly. His is a fair question in the circumstances, because it allows him to tailor his comforting to the problem at hand, rather than give you generic comforting which may not really help at all.



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28 Dec 2012, 10:23 am

CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
DefinitelyKmart wrote:
Me: I am exhausted from work, feel sick to my stomach, and in general feel like I'm losing it. I am so upset.
Him: Why are you upset?

In this brief passage i actually think you haven't understood the conversation rather than the opposite, by saying "why are you upset" hes allowing/Cueing you to continue the conversation and open upto him, i know you thought you had actually listed valid reasons for being upset, but read back their is no real logical connection, i know it may not seem like this, but he wanted you to go into specifics.

Exactly. His is a fair question in the circumstances, because it allows him to tailor his comforting to the problem at hand, rather than give you generic comforting which may not really help at all.


Yes I think I agree with this. When I read the conversation my first thought was "what's wrong with him asking that?", as it would be the first thing that would pop into my mind in that situation too. Honestly the two sentences you say seem illogical to be in back to back sentences. I don't see the connection between being exhausted etc and being upset, which is why I'd also question why you're upset.

So like it was said above, I'd be enquiring about what's wrong to allow you to air your feelings more and so I knew better what I could do to help you. Also I don't know about other aspies, but if someone says something that is illogical, it bothers me immensely and I often can't let it go until I've cleared it up and understood what they meant.


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30 Dec 2012, 12:11 am

daikoncattish wrote:
I got busy and didn't get a chance to really look at this until now and all I can say is thank you. Everyone saw the situation from a really difference angle, but it was so helpful to see it all spelled out. Nearly all of it rings true, and well, I just can't say thank you enough for your help.

To answer some questions and add context, first I have to apologize. I didn't include all of this information in the first post because I thought it would be overwhelming to read, and I didn't think anyone would actually reply. I'm glad you did though, so hopefully I can help answer some questions.

First of all, I do want to confess that this fight lead to the first time we really talked about the possibility that he might have asperger's. I'm sorry if I was misleading by not mentioning this. I know how poorly a community can react when someone simply suspects a diagnosis, but doesn't know for sure.

Second, maybe this will help explain why our fight seemed so big. We don't normally take days off from each other to deal with our problems, but in this case, we had argued about the same thing over and over again. For us to argue, just one more time, well, it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Whoever questioned my fault in the situation was right to point out how aversion could play such a big part in this situation. During our fight, he told me that he lied to me because he was trying to avoid conflict. I told him the lying WAS the conflict. Realizing just how poorly our messages get conveyed to each other, I see how things went terribly, terribly wrong.

You all really helped me understand what a meltdown can look like. I had never realized before that this was what was happening. Obviously, we have a lot to learn together, but some of your suggestions are ones that should have been a part of our relationship regardless of whether or not asperger's was a part of it. I should always be mindful that asking for specific things (like hugs!) is going to be more effective than asking for vague things ("Support me!").

Right now, all of this talk about asperger's is still really new and overwhelming to both of us. If/when he seems like he wants to know more or talk about it more, I'm going to direct him here.
Thanks again for all of your support.


ooohkay, wait a moment here. you're thinking that understanding his autism will help improve your relationship. to be clear, this is offensive. for example, if you cant get along with your friend tyrone and you believe this to be the case because you havent done enough research on black people and you havent asked other black people what about tyrone is because he is black and what about him exists despite his blackness, then you're a racist.

so cut out this nonsense. i cant believe people who have responded to you continue to do so after this revelation of yours.



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30 Dec 2012, 2:06 am

Forgive my ignorance, but I don't see how the idea that understanding someone's autism could improve one's relationship with them is offensive. It seems bleeding well obvious that understanding the effects of a disorder that has a major effect on social skills and people-handling, rather than attributing them to laziness, stubbornness, not caring, or whatever, would go a long way toward improving a relationship with a person with said disorder.


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30 Dec 2012, 4:54 am

muff wrote:

ooohkay, wait a moment here. you're thinking that understanding his autism will help improve your relationship. to be clear, this is offensive. for example, if you cant get along with your friend tyrone and you believe this to be the case because you havent done enough research on black people and you havent asked other black people what about tyrone is because he is black and what about him exists despite his blackness, then you're a racist.

so cut out this nonsense. i cant believe people who have responded to you continue to do so after this revelation of yours.


Erm, it's not offensive at all. Firstly, your analogy is flawed. There isn't necessarily any substantive difference between African descended people and other races, but even if there is, the mere recognition of their different culture and background is not racist. However, there is definitely a difference between autistic people and neurotypical people. Secondly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with taking this difference into account and trying to understand those differences in order to improve a relationship. Your comment is so illogical it surprises me that you're an aspie :/


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30 Dec 2012, 1:28 pm

Hi.

I have an Aspie male freind/Ex partner. I'm an NT woman and although I have known my Aspie for some 11 years never knew of his condition until I began a relationship with him. I like you was very confused and struggled to comprehend the strange unpredictable beahaviour once we moved in together, which only lasted as couple of weeks ! I love my Aspie to bits but his behaviour and mood swings and difficulty with being in company made the situation difficult to cope with and he couldn't cope with being in the relationship and ended it after he had moved me into his home, I had given up everything at his insistance to move in with him and now I was homeless and very hurt. I told him I would leave but he asked me to stay saying it didn't matter if it took me a year to leave, I stayed at his request but he would start getting up and disappering without saying anything and stay away because he needed space. He would tell me to go to bed or go to bed early himself to get space alone which he found normal but I felt emotionally hurtful. I found a place to rent and moved out which he found difficult to cope with also. He doesn't do Christmas or Birthdays so I avoided discussing this with him, the problem was he thrives on work and routine, gets up at 6.30am and is in work for 7am. finishes at 5pm and arrives home for 5.30pm the same every day leaving weekends to cope with. Over Christmas his work closes down and he goes into meltdown.
To cut a very long story short, I went to the library and ordered realms of books, went online to research as much as I could and purchased the best book ever from Amazon called " 22 things a woman should know if she loves a man with Aspergers" by Rudy Simone - It tells it like it is and what you should expect if you continue to want any sort of relationship with your Aspie. I read this when I had moved out and it made perfect sense of what I had been dealing with - I still love my Asdpie and we still have days together but many more apart, he wants to be best friends as he can't deal with close relationships but he cooked me a beautiful Christmas dinner with wine and chocolates and all by candle light and after plying me with alcohol (thinking that was what I needed) took me home and stayed to look after me, cuddled me all night of his own free will and left in the morning four days later he came back to take me out shopping the next day he turned up at my door stayed two minutes and left again with no explanation. I don't know when I will see or hear from him again but I know I have to get on with my life and be there for him when he needs a friend or not be there when he needs space. I still feel rejected and hurt with his behaviour but I just refer back to the above book to remind myself that he is just being who he is and I hope to learn more about Aspergers in the future so that I can help him to deal with his ups and downs ( nostly downs at present due to feeling he doesn't fit in to a normal world)

I hope you find this post helpful and that you can get hold of this book - it helped to understand that he is wired up differently to us NT's and stopped me from falling out with him.

Good Luck



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30 Dec 2012, 1:44 pm

daikoncattish wrote:
Recently, my AS bf and I got into a fight. I was stressed out and extremely angry, so I told him that I needed to cool off, but I would talk to him in two days when I could think more clearly. After two days, we shared a little chit chat, nothing serious, and agreed to talk about the fight the next day because we were tired. Well, the next day rolls around and no word from him. I call him a few times during the day, and send him a few texts. They were messages like, "So, I haven't heard from you. Let me know what's going on." Nothing. More time passes. 36 hours pass. I am freaking out. When I finally hear from him, I am upset and bewildered.

We discuss. I ask him why he would do something like that, and he said it's because I did the same thing to him. I explain to him that there's a big difference between the two situations. I ask him, "What would I have to text or say to you to make you answer the phone to let me know you're okay?" He answered very matter of factly, "Oh, well like, if you were really worried I would've stopped to let you know."

WrongPlanet, please explain.

Regardless of what he did or did not understand, I let him know very clearly that this wasn't a cool way to express his anger towards me. But how much of this is about not understanding? I just feel so skeptical that a person could have so many missed calls and not think something was wrong...or that they could receive a text message begging to know what's going on, but purposely ignore it. But then, I also have never really dealt with an AS bf before.

We've had instances like this before where I am completely confused. Another example of a conversation...
Me: I am exhausted from work, feel sick to my stomach, and in general feel like I'm losing it. I am so upset.
Him: Why are you upset?

THIS BLOWS MY MIND.

Please help me understand. I feel I'm not being fair, but I also need to know what his limitations are in these situations. I understand what asperger's is about, but obviously need some help. Couldn't some of these things be understood logically? Can he really not see how his actions could be interpreted as cruel and worrisome?

Ugh, I just don't get it. Please, help me learn. And thank you in advance to all of the kind people that reply.



As an aspie, I also do not understand how someone can just not talk to you like that. You did tell him you needed to cool off and you will talk to him in two days. That was pretty clear so it also blows my mind how he can't tell the difference. He didn't even tell you how many days he wanted silence from you and just did it anyway without telling you.

The second part, he doesn't know why you are upset so he asked you. We can't read your mind and at least he asked why you are upset because he cares about you.


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30 Dec 2012, 10:27 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but I don't see how the idea that understanding someone's autism could improve one's relationship with them is offensive. It seems bleeding well obvious that understanding the effects of a disorder that has a major effect on social skills and people-handling, rather than attributing them to laziness, stubbornness, not caring, or whatever, would go a long way toward improving a relationship with a person with said disorder.


While I agree with this, I think muff pointed out something that many of us often ignore to our own detriement.

While it is great if someone is learning about autism and strategies, the reality is that if they couldn't understand you and empathize before they did that, then in all probablity the relationship isn't going to work.

As soon as someone loses their temper, all "logical" thinking is going to go out the window and it's really going to come down to how much both of you understand the other. If you don't have that mutual understanding and empathy there to begin with - I think it is kind of pointless to learn about autism and strageies because it isn't going to make up for that core component of the romantic relationship that they are already lacking.

A lot of NT's who come here ignore this component, and a lot of the aspies here do too.


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muff
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31 Dec 2012, 1:36 am

seaqwinn wrote:
Hi.

I have an Aspie male freind/Ex partner. I'm an NT woman and although I have known my Aspie for some 11 years never knew of his condition until I began a relationship with him. I like you was very confused and struggled to comprehend the strange unpredictable beahaviour once we moved in together, which only lasted as couple of weeks ! I love my Aspie to bits but his behaviour and mood swings and difficulty with being in company made the situation difficult to cope with and he couldn't cope with being in the relationship and ended it after he had moved me into his home, I had given up everything at his insistance to move in with him and now I was homeless and very hurt. I told him I would leave but he asked me to stay saying it didn't matter if it took me a year to leave, I stayed at his request but he would start getting up and disappering without saying anything and stay away because he needed space. He would tell me to go to bed or go to bed early himself to get space alone which he found normal but I felt emotionally hurtful. I found a place to rent and moved out which he found difficult to cope with also. He doesn't do Christmas or Birthdays so I avoided discussing this with him, the problem was he thrives on work and routine, gets up at 6.30am and is in work for 7am. finishes at 5pm and arrives home for 5.30pm the same every day leaving weekends to cope with. Over Christmas his work closes down and he goes into meltdown.
To cut a very long story short, I went to the library and ordered realms of books, went online to research as much as I could and purchased the best book ever from Amazon called " 22 things a woman should know if she loves a man with Aspergers" by Rudy Simone - It tells it like it is and what you should expect if you continue to want any sort of relationship with your Aspie. I read this when I had moved out and it made perfect sense of what I had been dealing with - I still love my Asdpie and we still have days together but many more apart, he wants to be best friends as he can't deal with close relationships but he cooked me a beautiful Christmas dinner with wine and chocolates and all by candle light and after plying me with alcohol (thinking that was what I needed) took me home and stayed to look after me, cuddled me all night of his own free will and left in the morning four days later he came back to take me out shopping the next day he turned up at my door stayed two minutes and left again with no explanation. I don't know when I will see or hear from him again but I know I have to get on with my life and be there for him when he needs a friend or not be there when he needs space. I still feel rejected and hurt with his behaviour but I just refer back to the above book to remind myself that he is just being who he is and I hope to learn more about Aspergers in the future so that I can help him to deal with his ups and downs ( nostly downs at present due to feeling he doesn't fit in to a normal world)

I hope you find this post helpful and that you can get hold of this book - it helped to understand that he is wired up differently to us NT's and stopped me from falling out with him.

Good Luck


'i love my aspie'?
youve got to be kidding me.
and im the one getting ragged on on here.
well i love my amputee, and my ret*d, and my british friend. for gods sake people...



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31 Dec 2012, 1:47 am

Kjas wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but I don't see how the idea that understanding someone's autism could improve one's relationship with them is offensive. It seems bleeding well obvious that understanding the effects of a disorder that has a major effect on social skills and people-handling, rather than attributing them to laziness, stubbornness, not caring, or whatever, would go a long way toward improving a relationship with a person with said disorder.


While I agree with this, I think muff pointed out something that many of us often ignore to our own detriement.

While it is great if someone is learning about autism and strategies, the reality is that if they couldn't understand you and empathize before they did that, then in all probablity the relationship isn't going to work.

As soon as someone loses their temper, all "logical" thinking is going to go out the window and it's really going to come down to how much both of you understand the other. If you don't have that mutual understanding and empathy there to begin with - I think it is kind of pointless to learn about autism and strageies because it isn't going to make up for that core component of the romantic relationship that they are already lacking.

A lot of NT's who come here ignore this component, and a lot of the aspies here do too.


thank you for saying so kjas. strengths and weaknesses are strengths and weaknesses across the board. as i read through posts here, i worry that when things go 'wrong' folks will use autism to explain it (i have been guilty of 'using' for myself when i seem to 'screw up') and when things go 'right' the autism must not be 'acting up' in such a way as to damage how things would have gone normally.

kjas, you make a good point when you state how important empathy is. it is the cornerstone of any relationship. my point with the black analogy is that no two people with autism are going to be the same. that said, i think the original poster would be better served to have a conversation with the person in question if they hope to learn in a more appropriate way. if they both have empathy for one another, maybe they can learn together.