#yesallwomen

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You're still equating Elliot Rodgers the killer with all sexist asshats.. And you're ultimately equating Rodgers with the men here on Wrongplanet.

You're on a mission to dominate and shame all men.

I think this is true. I think also that the way to make this change is for men to take the lead in refusing to accept that kind of behavior from other men. When women shout about misogyny, the whole thing gets written off as a "women's problem", despite the fact that we're over half the population. But I think men tend to care what other men think of them; I think men tend to police each other more effectively than women can.

What it means is that you guys have to do something potentially scary, which is to stand up to other men who are talking and/or behaving in sexist ways, even when no women are around, and make it plain it won't do.

Women talk sh** about men all the time. "all men are pigs" "they are no good men" etc, but you don't hear us whining about misandry or women's sexist behavior.

I didn't say that sexism is the sole preserve of men -- it isn't. But if you spend some time in these conversations with earnest people, it becomes clear pretty fast why the focus is on misogyny. Misandry, where it exists, doesn't usually leave guys shut out of jobs, robbed of pay, victims of violence, vilified both for having sex and for not having sex, blamed for their own rapes, vilified for having children and for not having children, vilified for making a living while having children, blamed for their children's father's abandoning the family...I mean this list does go on for quite some time. Unemployed/poor, abused, and vilified is not a great condition to be in.

You've got a problem in your parallel, above -- men *in fact* kill, rape, abuse, and otherwise victimise women in pretty good numbers. Victims of domestic violence are overwhelmingly women and they're not rare. And workplace harassment and discrimination is a very real phenomenon, with the trail of court cases, legislation, and HR practices to prove it. There are factual reasons why women fear men. It's not a matter of misconceptions.

A parallel to what I said above would be to task women with stopping other women from slagging off men on the basis of their being men, and to speak up when women sexually harass men, objectify them, or rob them of pay. In my experience, women in groups are actually quick to defend men, usually because they don't like to think of their own boyfriends, husbands, etc. as bad guys. So they will speak up and say, "Well, I don't think that's fair," or some such, or even, "I think that's kind of sexist." You can see this in comments all over feminist sites, btw, too. We're not generally afraid of being poorly thought of by other women when we do that. As for the other things -- speaking up when women harass men...you know, it just doesn't happen very often. Women don't usually create an environment of sexual harassment that male employees just have to live with or leave, and I've yet to hear of a woman boss systematically underpaying male employees.

I have seen a glass-ceiling warrior cut male students out of opportunities, and what I saw there was that even though she's quite powerful -- brings in a ton of money -- other women were more than willing to stand up to her about it and to speak to officials about it.

If guys were as willing to call out other men on sexism, rather than looking the other way or deciding it wasn't important, or that women should just deal, I think we'd see much less of it.

How meta.

That is, yeah, some men do, and you just did.

ETA: ffs, there's a man over on the 'shooter's anti-women rant' thread who equated women not appreciating his work/tax paying enough with men thinking they are entitled to affection from women.

Feminists should just learn to deal.. or at least stop complaining so often. And for the love of god stop playing the victim so much, that's why so many people find you feminists so annoying or irritating to listen to.

[Sotto voce] Psst. You're making a fool of yourself.

No I'm pretty sure tarantella64 was. Blaming men for everything wrong with society. How is someone supposed to take that seriously?

Do we actually have any female mods BTW?

Not sure if loaded question or not...

Love and Dating is a place where some men regularly post the kind of comments, pretty much word for word the same as those of Elliot Rodger, about women. Anyone who tries to deny that is kidding themselves.

I have been seeing extreme misogyny here for years now. It does seem to go in phases, but as a general trend I would say it has been getting more common, and there are more men who are prepared to back it up and attack those women and men who challenge the misogyny. It needs to be challenged all the more, and I do think that the mods are going to have to take a more active role in this forum. The more these thoughts are expressed, the more normalised they become. Misogyny is not acceptable and it diminishes both men and women.

I know this is a privately owned website and not some magic internet democracy, but it would perhaps make the place more welcoming to women if they were better represented in terms of mods.

Not to say the guys round here aren't doing a good job.