Why are strong women seen as the enemy?

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I've read some of the ?whining? posts over the past few month on this website and I think many of them speak to the whole ?male entitlement? argument that has been going on for awhile (since that video of the shooter whose name I can't recall at the moment, went public.)

Yeah, that whole, ?I can't get a girlfriend, so all women suck,? is pretty much where sexism begins. I understand what the OP is saying, though, and I think the majority of the ?whiners? are just lonely and venting. I think we all do that to some degree on occasion.

Sh*t, so where do I stand on this issue? Maybe right on the fence. Please feel free to try to kick me to one side if you can.

Peter Post, great-grandson of Emily Post, wrote the book Essential Manners for Men: What to do, When to do it, and Why. In it, he describes etiquette as being governed by three principles: consideration, respect, and honesty.

"CONSIDERATION is understanding how other people and entities are affected by whatever is taking place. Consideration is empathy. I helps us to assess how a situation affects everyone involved, and then acts accordingly.

RESPECT is recognizing that how you act with another person will affect your relationship with that person, and then choosing to take actions that will build relationships rather than injure them. Respect helps us decide how to choose to act toward others.

HONESTY is being truthful, not deceptive. There is a critical difference, too, between benevolent and brutal honesty: "I have a problem with that" vs. "That's a stupid thing to say." Honesty ensures that we act sincerely."

Further on the same page, he writes:
"BEING INCONSIDERATE AND BEING DISRESPECTFUL GO HAND IN HAND
Staring at other women. Talking down to women. Ignoring their opinions. Interrupting. Not introducing them. Simply ignoring them altogether. Walking several steps ahead of a women rather than beside her. The Post Survey found that women don't simply view these behaviors as being rude or inconsiderate - to women, they represent a fundamental lack of personal respect."

I sincerely doubt that Peter Post would consider, "Looking good baby!" said by a guy on a scaffold to represent good etiquette. I don't consider it weak to explain that this doesn't represent good etiquette. I think that teaching manners to a community of people notorious for their poor social skills is helpful and can aid in their efforts to relate to other human beings in positive ways. I can't imagine why someone here would not want the other members to learn good manners toward other human beings. Good etiquette shows respect. Standing up for yourself and requesting that people show you respect is generally held to be a mark of strength, not weakness.

I think it's sort of a stigma in society for women to be strong, especially amongst feminist groups. Women are seen as weak and need to be protected. A lot of feminist groups will speak out against rape, yet at the same time deny a woman the right to defend herself, implying that she is better off being submissive to her attacker. I'm all for empowerment of women, but the self defense issue, is one of the main reason I don't like most feminist groups. It would be nice to see more women become interested in fields like fitness, science, nutrition, engineering and mathmatics. As far as someone opening a door for you, that's just being polite. Of course no one needs the door open for them, but there is no reason to get mad at someone for being polite.

From what I can tell, OOM does not want a committee asserting directly upon her and indirectly to others on her behalf, what she should find offensive and what she find attractive. Of course, there is a framework of obvious boundaries. However, I get the sense that OOM doesn't appreciate others making decisions for her within that framework.

^^This.

^^^Seconded.My ex never would walk beside me,always ahead.No way I can help having short legs and I'll be dammed if I'm gonna trot to keep up with someone.

That's interesting. Margaret Atwood who is a prominent feminist (edit: although I'm not sure that she normally would label herself one)(one you could call a pioneer) participated in a campaign last year to have the Canadian Anthem lyrics changed to be gender neutral, so I'm pretty sure (as a 'true' pioneer) she would probably disagree with you. Something tells me that the pioneers of women's rights would probably be more disappointed in someone like you...

I have much more to say, but I am busy. You are , am sure aware that the proponents wanting change for the lyrics would simply like to return them to the original english lyrics.

well I hope to find someone to be my equal. Can't help being submissive, probably as you couldn't help being dominte, people are born different.

what do you mean overshadow?

can't help that I'm 6'3. if the walking slightly ahead is a problem why do women want guys taller then them? shouldn't they look for guys the same height ie same leg length ie same length covered in a foot movement.

I never had such problem except with my mom. most women have kept up. I certainly don't walk super fast as my friends did.

isn't looking at other women/men while in a relationship normal? i mean if you do it for more then a few secs i would get made. but its our instinct. I actually look at everyone around me to be aware of possible threats.

Yes, because the lyrics were altered to say "in all our sons command" instead of "in all of us command", which they saw as sexist, to suggest only our sons can have "true patriot love". One of the women was the mother of the first Canadian female soldier to be killed in combat in Afghanistan. Do you think she wanted the lyrics changed because she's some sort of traditionalist when it comes to lyrics, or do you think she wanted them changed because her daughter was a soldier killed in combat and she'd like to see lyrics that commemorate all of Canada's "patriots" instead of just the male ones?

OOM, this is all getting more and more ridiculous. Should we just get into another catfight? I mean, we never have settled on which of us Jesus prefers [and even if it is you, for sure and for certain, his dad vastly prefers me over you. I mean, he Made me before he even considered creating yet one more little Italian catholic pagan girl living in 'Hicksville."]

Indeed, it's so ridiculous when people argue against you when you make grand statements about what an entire group of people think even though you don't know any of them....

It's much less ridiculous when people just believe everything you say without question.

If it's getting so ridiculous then perhaps you guys should stop creating threads that attract the people you obviously don't want to have a discussion with.

Either I never hit submit or my post vanished. In any case:

Whiners are why you have any rights at all, OOM. Go have another look at that Anita Hill bit I posted. If I had to guess, I'd guess that a lot of your attitude comes from living in a relatively sheltered way -- someone else supports you and takes care of your transportation, and you live in a small comfortable town where everyone already knows you. And you like it that way. This is not how most women live. You haven't really had to go out there and make it in a world that isn't particularly friendly to women, and is even less friendly to women's success. Which is why I find it really pretty damn amusing that you're here with the tough-gal stance calling those of us who do go out there into male-dominated spaces and make things work "whiners".

This "emotional toughness" thing is a bit of macho work that I remember well from a certain time and place. Again, it's got problems, including the fact that until you recognize that you're being discriminated against or victimised, you can't do much about it. The idea that one should be ashamed of having been a victim, or should simply not feel it -- I see no advantage to going through life like that. Your mistake is that you believe that recognizing victimization is the same thing as deciding to live as a puddle.

The internet, which is just sitting there waiting for you, has thread after thread now with thousands of women explaining for you why these things we've been talking about are important, how their lives are affected by them. Again, if you're going to be willfully deaf to them, there's nothing I can do. But then don't come on here saying that what you've been hearing lately here is some kind of freako, wackadoodle delicate-blossom mutant outgrowth of feminism that goes Too Far and is too outlandish for anyone to take seriously. Just admit you don't want to hear it.

I feel like this thread was made just to start more arguments...