Dating an anti-feminist girl

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08 Aug 2014, 4:18 pm

I'm sure you can find any definition you want to for almost any word in the English language. I went to the most commonly-used dictionary in America, and it presented me with two definitions. The first definition (considered to be the most widely-used or accepted definition of a word, i.e., the majority of speakers of the language use or accept that definition) says: belief in equality. The second definition is there because it is another known use of the word.

Pardon my poor sentence structure. When I said "if you are a man," I meant you personally, not mankind in general. (I don't automatically know any poster's gender, and I hate to make assumptions.) Why don't you give me an example of things that have happened to you that you consider gender discrimination in the workplace?

Consider this my last response to you, OWS. I'm not in the mood to argue. Have a nice day.

kraftiekortie
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08 Aug 2014, 4:30 pm

Personally, I'd rather have a relationship with a woman who is feminine and able to speak up for herself.

I like moderate feminism better than subservience. I'm not too thrilled about the "radical" sort of feminism.

onewithstrange
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08 Aug 2014, 4:57 pm

Eureka13 wrote:

Pardon my poor sentence structure. When I said "if you are a man," I meant you personally, not mankind in general. (I don't automatically know any poster's gender, and I hate to make assumptions.) Why don't you give me an example of things that have happened to you that you consider gender discrimination in the workplace?

Nice try, but I don't buy it. Whether or not you knew my gender, you're saying a man hasn't experienced gender discrimination in the workplace because he's a man. Or, going with your explanation, I don't buy that you're simultaneously willing to assume I haven't experienced gender discrimination in the workplace while not willing to assume my gender. To my knowledge I actually haven't experienced it, but what is that supposed to prove? Whether I have or not, your assumption is sexist, and it speaks for itself. Still, nice redirection.

Eureka13 wrote:

Consider this my last response to you, OWS. I'm not in the mood to argue. Have a nice day.

Makes no difference to me one way or the other.

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Cafeaulait
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08 Aug 2014, 5:39 pm

onewithstrange wrote:

Eureka13 wrote:

Consider this my last response to you, OWS. I'm not in the mood to argue. Have a nice day.

Makes no difference to me one way or the other.

No, Eureka is right about everything.

tarantella64
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08 Aug 2014, 7:26 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

feminine and feminist are not mutually exclusive, though I'm generally annoyed by the whole "I like feminine women" thing, like you're ordering from a catalogue. I'm who I am, the traits/appearance/etc. aren't arranged to make a feminine/masculine package for a guy.

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09 Aug 2014, 5:08 pm

onewithstrange wrote:

Eureka13 wrote:

Perhaps you're thinking of "militant feminism," in which case you are correct. Please do not confuse "militant <anything>" with the common, garden-variety of <anything>

This is hilarious.

Why is that hilarious? I thought it was a really good way to illustrate the point. The average woman whom you meet on the street who says she's a feminist is probably the common garden-variety type who thinks that men and women should be treated equally and is someone who voices their opinion when they feel that women are being treated unfairly in a particular case. It's not often that you'll meet a member of p**** Riot or Femen.

*edit- much to my surprise the name of the band p**** riot has been edited out automatically. Oh well.

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09 Aug 2014, 5:11 pm

tarantella64 wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

I agree with everything Tarentella has written on this thread, but I draw the line at telling men who they should and should not be attracted to. Some gay men are attracted to more effeminate men, like the dude from Orphan Black. They just are. and some straight men are attracted to more effeminate women. They just are. I don't have a problem with it.

The problem only comes when someone pretends to be a person they are not to attract someone. That's not going to work out for anyone involved.

tarantella64
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09 Aug 2014, 7:24 pm

hurtloam wrote:

tarantella64 wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

I think it'd be a delightful trick, at this point, to start describing what "feminine" and "masculine" traits are. Someone tried it in the Women forum and it ran off the rails pretty fast, because you have to resort to stereotypes that have little to do with how people live now.

Yes, you're attracted to whatever you're attracted to. But to go looking on that basis...if you're paying attention to what you're doing, it's gross and objectifying. There's a certain phenotype and set of mannerisms that just slays me, always has, and sure, I could go scrolling through dating websites looking, BUT THAT'D BE GROSS. Because what am I going to say? "Hi, I want to meet and do you and stare at you because of genetic accidents that have nothing to do with who you are, and I guess actually I just want to f**k your look"? Uh, no, I'll skip that, thanks.

The package is the package. If you're looking at that rather than the person, this is creepy.

anna-banana
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10 Aug 2014, 11:09 am

1401b wrote:

I've never met a feminist with a boyfriend nor husband.

I've never met a woman with a boyfriend or husband who would let someone call her a feminist without a fight.

I've never met a feminist who would allow a man his opinion on anything without a fight.

Maybe I need to get out more.

ohai! *waves*

My husband considers himself a feminist too, he doesn't feel threatened by women's equality and he doesn't feel victimised by it. He knows his worth as a man.

Then again, I'm on the other side of the barricade than most feminists, probably including those that the dudes in this thread feel threatened by.

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onewithstrange
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10 Aug 2014, 11:59 pm

hurtloam wrote:

Why is that hilarious?

There is no such thing as "militant feminism", just as there is no such thing as "militant atheism". It's a meaningless phrase and in this case, it's just more redirection and not taking responsibility for one's own ideology.

Feminism isn't about equal rights because it pushes women's rights with an inherent assumption that men have more rights than women. This assumption is what prompts feminists to say crazy stuff like: "If you are a man, you have never personally experienced, for example, discrimination in the workplace because of your gender." Feminism and supporting equal rights are not synonymous (either in name or principle) and never will be.

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11 Aug 2014, 12:31 am

onewithstrange wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

Why is that hilarious?

let's be honest and admit that there's only one type of feminist, and we all know what type that is.... :lol:

/sarcasm.

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11 Aug 2014, 1:02 am

I'm just going to leave this here mmmkay *says in Bill Lumbergh voice*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC-cTBmrdeo
This is my problem with so call feminist groups, a lot of them want the women to be the victim.

AspieOtaku
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11 Aug 2014, 2:06 am

Meh just ignore women and don't show any interest even if you are attracted to them, then you have no worries of being accused of sexual harrassment and such. It is innapropriate behavior to show physical attraction to a woman if you are a heterosexual male these days you are not to look or be allowed to be aroused either all sexuality must be suppressed at all times. Asking out a woman on a date can be grounds for sexual harassment even in a non work place so its best not to bother at all.

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Patrick64
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11 Aug 2014, 4:59 am

I agree, but I can't help but fall in love, and that's why I am changing my lifestyle to be happy without a woman in my life. I am a part of MGTOW now. (google it) How can I be like Nikola Tesla, and not show any interest in any human being. Male or Female? Why does the mainstream media push people to have relationships so much? Probably money. You need money to survive, but after seeing many documentaries, such as The Reality of Me "http://www.tromsite.com/", we can move away from all this lie. It's all up to the majority of the human race honestly, but next topic.

Rape Culture, Abortion, Gender Inequality (as of today of course), victim blaming, materialism, and normal human behavior as it is obviously opened a can of worms which opens more cans of worms in the process creating millions if not billions of our world's problems. I do understand that as we are capable of human error, and as long as they exist, a utopia is just not possible. Emotions and Logic are 2 things that we still struggle as humans as of right now. I am just accepting things for what they are because I can't change them.

In the end, I can only hope for change for the better in humanity. Nothing else.

progaspie
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11 Aug 2014, 6:20 am

Eureka13 wrote:

onewithstrange wrote:

Feminism isn't about gender equality, Eureka. It's about pushing women's agenda, often at the expense of a man's or by placing blame at men's feet. If I'm called anti-feminist for pointing out the obvious, I'm okay with that.

Your definition is strictly your own, not the accepted definition. Feminism has *never* been about women's agenda, or about blaming men. Perhaps you're thinking of "militant feminism," in which case you are correct. Please do not confuse "militant <anything>" with the common, garden-variety of <anything>. For example, there are militant Christians - I do not automatically assume that everyone who claims to be a Christian is a militant Christian - just the ones who are out bombing abortion clinics and "assassinating" doctors who perform abortions.

There are a whole helluva lot of women who support women's rights (which are, coincidentally, in the process of getting reversed, mostly by those militant Christians referred to above), and which are not the same as a women's agenda.

(What the hell *is* a "women's agenda" anyway? I have my own agenda, but I doubt that it is the same as any other woman's anywhere in the world. But supporting women's rights? You can bet your bippie I agree with all the other women who have been fighting gender discrimination for 10, 20, 30, 40 or more years!)

If you are a man, you have never personally experienced, for example, discrimination in the workplace because of your gender. I've dealt with it all my life. Still am dealing with it. I get better performance reviews than 98% of all the people in my organization (tens of thousands of them); yet, it's the men who get promoted, get entrusted with career-building projects, while I am "kept in my place," i.e., a support position instead of a lead position. I'm in a traditionally male-dominated field (engineering). The only reason I don't make waves about it any more is that I'm just a few years away from being able to retire, and I'm just too tired to continue to put forth the energy. Every single job I've ever had, I'd had to compete with men for, and I've had to work my way up a grueling ladder, one step at a time. Men usually get hired on at several rungs below the bottom, and get automatic promotions. I have to bust my butt for every single step, repeatedly proving that I'm good enough, knowledgeable enough, innovating enough to do the same damn thing that it is just *assumed* any man with the right credentials can do.

Yes, there's still gender discrimination, and yes, after the original women's lib movement and the forward strides it made, there has been a big pushback by "anti-feminists" to reverse some of that forward movement. It's rather disheartening at this stage in my life.

I would be the last person to advocate reversing the gains that women have made over the years in achieving equality in the workplace. I'm sorry that you have experienced discrimination in the workforce, but that isn't my experience and we share a similar scientific background. You shouldn't assume that your workplace is the same as other workplaces. As a male you could argue that I haven't noticed, but I have been involved in HR and O,H & S issues in various workplaces and my experience is that my employer would never tolerate gender discrimination.

Eureka13
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11 Aug 2014, 8:04 am

Until society (including men and women) stop viewing women as objects to "get" - i.e., arm candy, trophy wives, "things" without the physical or mental autonomy to be recognized as individuals in their own right, there *is* no equality between the sexes.

Personally, I don't believe that women will achieve true equality of rights within my lifetime; if anything, many of the strides that were made towards equality in the early days of women's lib have been reversed in recent years. Until women are treated the same as men, with reproductive autonomy being one of the major factors, there are still women's rights to be fought for. When insurance companies either: 1) pay for birth control methods for both genders, or 2) STOP paying for sex enhancement drugs for men, that will be a good first step towards equality.

Unfortunately, it's so ingrained in our society that women ARE objects, existing solely for the pleasure of men, that many otherwise reasonable men are simply blind to the reality of how unfairly (and unequally) women are still being treated.

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