Men asking before kissing on First Date (again this topic)

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The problem is that we are a forum filled with people with difficulties in non verbal communication. For an NT this sort of thing comes naturally. They automatically sense the right moiment and go for it. Speaking for myself I dont really know how to initiate that moment or to lead into it. I would need to ask to avoid a whole commotion. I would also recommend that anyone with an ASD ask. The problem with posting those questions on those forums is that the advice is aimed towards people who can read the non verbal cues and act based on that data.

Well, as I posted while the relationship failed due to incompatible personality, I as an Aspie WAS able to successfully read the cues and kiss a girl on the first date then take her to bed. I noticed that she VERY quickly moved her eyes down to her lips three times and that was my cue. Before that, I invited her to sit on the couch and she sat right next to me so I put my arms around her. All I can suggest is so slow and she will politely pull away if she is not interested but won't think badly of you in most cases.

I'm one of those types that is afraid to hug/kiss/etc without express written consent. Ok maybe not written but you get the point. It isn't attractive but I'll never take advantage of a girl. It's partly my insecurity and inability to read people and partly the society we live in that a guy is easily villainized as a rapist when it comes to these things. Just not worth the risk.

~sigh~

So, for the purposes of discussion, let's presume that 90% of women prefer men not to ask, and 10% prefer that men do.

If we are to look at the route of always asking, we're looking at a route wherein men are going to strike out with 90% of women. This will result in lots of single men and women. This is an untenable outcome.

If we are to look at the route of never asking, we're looking at a route wherein 10% of women are going to experience unwelcome advances. This can cause undue suffering on the part of these women, especially if they have been victims of sexual assault in the past. This is an untenable outcome.

It seems as if no matter which route you go, you lose. However, further dissection of the issues associated with the first one reveal an underlying problem: A lot of them view asking as lacking in confidence, breaking the mood, or both. The solution, then, becomes clear: Finding a way of asking that does not lack confidence or break the mood.

There have been a few suggestions to that effect already. One of these is not putting it in the form of a question, but a statement. I've espoused a "statement of desire" myself in this thread so far. "I'd love to kiss you" is a simple, straightforward way of doing it. For the record, I asked permission from my current girlfriend. Specifically, I asked "Am I allowed to kiss that sexy girl in front of me yet?" She blushed and said yes. It worked. She told me that she felt my asking gave her a lot of agency and control over the situation, something she greatly appreciated.

Ultimately what I suspect most of that 90% are actually opposed to are men being wussies, not obtaining consent. A lot of them like the spontaneity as well, and that one seems like a trickier problem to tackle. Perhaps a solution to that is for men and women to hold out on the thrills of spontaneity until after a few advances have been welcomed first, and it's established that the spontaneous advance has a higher chance of being desired.

^ Why is it that more people are concerned about stupid whining than actually trying to come up with and discuss solutions? My fellow Vulcans disappoint me greatly. I'm a Vulcan among Vulcans...

I must kiss you: Is a statement of a desireto kiss so I would say that that's ok. Its not actually stating the case as something that is inevitable
I'd love to taste your lips: Okay mildly creepy XD but again Humphrey Bogart fare
To kiss or not to kiss that is the question: Butchered Shakespeare lol


I guess you want to avoid saying can I kiss you? That's hopelessly old fashioned. Maybe the best way is to ask the question indirectly without sounding mealy mouthed or silly as in mostofmy examples taken straight from the movies

all seem bad to me. I wouldn't know how to react if a woman said those to me.

idk I'm oldfashion i find a kiss on the hand to be really romantic.
i generally just asked if it was ok to kiss them.
or may i kiss you my lady.

only kissed 3 women.

my experience with statements have always been people manipulating others to get what they want.
like saying i'm really hungry for steak repeatedly instead of just asking if the person would get them steak.

but perhaps it has to do with how I don't get that its a question. so I only hear statements and am like ok, then go get a steak.

Not all body language is subjective or ambiguous.

If you ever see this: Slightly dialated pupils, noticably increased blinking, periodic flaring of nostrils... Man is she ready. But unfortunately your date is a Lesser Walker's Sea Turtle.