Why is "Ghosting" Socially Acceptable?

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But you just changed the scenario there. I thought we were talking about straight up ignoring messages vs. "I don't think we match". The former doesn't spare ANY pain relative to the latter.

You're not entitled to closure or an explanation. You certainly aren't entitled to any kind of dating improvement feedback - this isn't a job interview - nor might it even be particularly helpful.

However, you are certainly entitled to think that fading after 5 or 6 dates is rude. I think it is, too.

The very fact that you think creepiness is a feminist bs would signal alarm bells if me if I were considering dating you. And it's also the kind of thing that would make me 'fade' rather than explain.

I want to echo a previous commenters suggestion of reading The Gift of Fear. Truly great book.

No, it isn't and it is creepy as all get out to boot!

Also "creepy" doesn't mean "liberal feminist bs excuse" -- it means a woman senses that there's something "off" about a guy and the girl's self-protection instinct has kicked in. I, for one, heed my creep-o-meter. (Go read Gavin de Becker's "The Gift of Fear" for an explanation).

Your assumption that you're dating a girl exclusively if you've had sex with her is WRONG. You're exclusive if and ONLY IF you've had a conversation about being exclusive and she's agreed to it. Period.

FINALLY, you really do sound as if you're ENTITLED to an explanation for why a girl doesn't want to have anything to do with you -- but that does NOT make it so. You aren't owed an explanation from anybody you have not dated exclusively (following convo, girl agreeing to be exclusive.

If your modus operandi is to stalk (that's exactly what looking up the # of a girl who stopped returning your calls is!) girls, the fact that you get GHOSTED?

Is a direct result of your super duper creepy actions!!

I was making a case for why a person can reasonably think that going no-contact can spare pain relative to a rejection like "I don't think we match." All rejections hurt. Some ("I think you're an awkward loser") hurt more than others ("I don't think we match"). I think a person can reasonably take this further and assume that no-contact will spare pain relative to "I don't think we match." As I said, whether or not that actually obtains in the real world is a different matter. The point is simply that a person can reasonably think along the lines I've described and be blameless in doing so.

In any case, I don't think most instances in which one person decides to break contact are explained by the above. The truth, I think, is much simpler: rejections are awkward, I want to avoid awkwardness, I can reasonably assume you'll take no-contact to imply a rejection, therefore I'll go no-contact.

Agreed.

My thing is, though, that if a woman dumps me, I really would like to know what's going on, if it's a mistake I made that I need to avoid in future relationships. If she says "it's over," then ok, it's over. I would like the chance to make things right IF that's why she's breaking up with me?in other words, would she give me a chance if it's something I can try to fix? But if she doesn't want me to fix it, then she can just say so. Doesn't matter what I say, she has spoken and it's over. And most women I've ever known were good about letting me or another guy know what was going wrong on her side of the relationship so we had a chance to fix it if it could be fixed.

What's happening here is that girls don't even bother explaining what went wrong for us men to even have a point of reference. We're flying blind, and it's frustrating, especially when issues come up in subsequent relationships and nobody helps us understand what we're doing wrong.

And you know what can be done about it? Ab.so.lute.ly NOTHING. *sigh* Grab a 12 year Glenlivet and a case of your favorite beer on the way home, tomorrow is a new day, and all that crap.

It is about avoiding "in the moment" awkwardness. To say it's about sparing pain is self-serving false rationalization. There's nothing altruistic about being rude. It's totally selfish behavior.

Very well said. Fading is a tactic that gives women an impressive amount of power, and it will drive a man over the brink of insanity. This has happened to me, too, and I remember waking up one morning just like it was some bad dream, and I had to ask myself, "What freakin' HAPPENED to me???"

My fader was one of those "slow-fade" types. Once I allowed my mind to fully comprehend what was happening to me, I stopped calling. And she just couldn't stand it. She called ME two weeks later to "see if I was ok." Uh huh?you had a fight with your new boyfriend, didn't you? lol

I'm telling you, you're playing with fire by doing that. I was very lucky nobody called the cops on me. All you want is to understand that you've been dumped, you need her to give you a straight answer, and it's nothing more than that. She might, in a way, deserve to get stalked. But by doing what she's done, SHE'S the one with power, not you, not me. When we go over there banging on doors, they're on the phone with 911. When the patrol car pulls up and the cops see we're mad as hell, guess who is going to jail?

Dude, this is NOT the path we take. It sucks learning the hard way. We're lucky we don't get arrested when things like this go down, no matter how crazy it makes us when women do that. But I hope you understand THIS CANNOT HAPPEN AGAIN.

He's probably googling for your address now.

to all the people who have been faded out and creepzoned, just think of it as though you dodged some bad luck. you avoided what probably would have been a dysfunctional relationship.

Unless, of course, the person really does want to avoid hurting someone. Have you ever rejected someone? I have. I was not attracted to her. I told her that I thought we ought to remain friends. Should I have instead instructed her to lose weight, maybe improve her wardrobe? I don't think so, and I think doing so would have made me look incredibly insensitive at best. More importantly, I didn't want to needlessly hurt her. I genuinely cared about her feelings in a way that wasn't "self-serving false rationalization."

Anyway, I said before that I don't think most no-contact rejections are done to avoid causing pain. I think the usual reasoning is more straight-forward: most people regard going no-contact as an acceptable form of rejection that avoids awkwardness for both parties, and some of us, per our diagnoses, struggle to internalize this.

@Boo: Let him. I have a google+ account. I'm not hiding from anybody. I'm just not going to do the work for anybody. Unless I already know you fairly well, I confirm/deny NOTHING. I've even dropped clues as to my whereabouts all over WP. Here's a hint: I live in one of the most racially tense and most economically distressed regions of the United States. And there's this MASSIVE river that runs within a few miles of my house. I've even mentioned that I appear on TV regularly. And supposedly I'm on an upcoming "docu-comedy" reality series set for December on TruTV. I'm well-acquainted with local police, lawyers, various church leaders, and even politicians in the area, not to mention a few affluent farming families. Heck, I've even posted youtube videos of myself in the art/writing/music sub forum. If someone on WP really were to pull a stunt like that, it wouldn't take long for anyone to piece together what happened.

Oh, and I live in a rough neighborhood. Next-door neighbor is a cop, and just across the street is a guy who keeps his sidearm prominently displayed. You really, REALLY don't want to cause trouble out here. I learned the value of diplomacy early in life, but even I've had an unfortunate run-in with a particularly nasty neighbor over a little misunderstanding involving his former gf's punk kid. I'm able to defuse a situation pretty quick. Out here, we're not normally so quick to trust outsiders. Cause a scene here, and you're considered LUCKY if the sheriff's deputy catches you first. At least a night in jail will give you some guarantee of survival. So?all I have to say is good luck with that!

I am socially stupid. I would appreciate it if people could be honest with me if I did something that's out-of-line. I even specifically said so a couple of times - that I'd rather hear blunt honesty than be ignored & avoided. The latter makes me feel like a subhuman creature that should just disappear off the face of the earth.

Giving my thoughts on that has yet to work. The people that are honest with me would have been honest anyway, and they are far outnumbered by those who would rather pretend that leaving me clueless is less harmful.

This might be only tangentially related to the thread, it's more on my failures to cross the acquaintance-friend line.

You just changed the topic again. I'm not letting you get away with that. We're talking about suddenly IGNORING someone BEFORE rejecting them.


IGNORING someone doesn't avoid causing pain. It avoids the momentary discomfort of being upfront for THE ONE DOING THE REJECTING. It makes the REJECTED feel MUCH worse. Therefore it is selfish.

The reason WHY a girl abruptly cuts off contact / ghosts you is ultimately irrelevant - if she doesn't wanna talk to you, LET IT GO.

You can't make her talk to you. You can sulk about her ghosting you, rant that she's ghosted you, rave rhat her ghosting you is a deliberate act of cruelty as much as you like... which will make you miserable and, WILL NOT COMPEL HER TO TALK TO YOU.

some of us cannot even pass the stranger/acquaintance line.

Not in my world. I would never trust a girl that didn't behave exclusively from the start, and that did this out of her own free will, without any negotiation. Because there would be nothing that stops such unreliable girl from just ending a relationship when she found somebody else or for whatever strange reason she might come up with. After all, girls are entitled to break up at any point, even when they have agreed to be exclusive, and even when they have been married for a while, so agreeing to be exclusive means nothing. The ultimate test is if they use this in an irresponsible manner or not. Thus, I would never trust a girl that behaves in the way you describe (break up without giving a good reason after 5-6 dates) or feels she is entitled to behave like that. Such girls are simply not relationship material, and should be blacklisted at dating sites.