Fear and Loathing Toward my Future, Nonexistent Wife

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Aspie1, I have this same fear, and I avoid all intimate relationships as a result. I do not ever want to be in a position where I can be exploited or abused. I grew up in an extended family where all the women were verbally abused toward their male partners, and my mom was verbally abusive towards me and my father. My dad then ran away and married a woman who didn't like me because she was jealous. I have no personal in-depth experience with long-term male-female romantic relationships working. When I have dated women, all of the ones I fell for turned out to be like my mother. I am attracted to selfish, self-centered women because it is familiar. NONE of the women I fall for are able to love me. If a woman is nice to me, I am immediately repulsed. Kindness makes me feel so uncomfortable because it is unfamiliar.

However, I know this fear is just a fantasy in my head and my loathing of marriage and romantic relationships is just my cynical nature (refusing to have hope so that I don't have those hopes crushed). I have been around enough women to know that they are not all like my mother. Long-term relationships are no fairy tale, but not all of them can be as f****d up as the family I grew up in. I also know that it is ME who is the problem. It wasn't bad luck or coincidence that led to my devastating relationships. I chose to pursue women who are unable to love to me (because they were unable to love me). When I get to a point where I am able to tolerate the uncomfortable feeling that comes with truly being loved by a woman, then I will be ready for a relationship. Until then, I am only good for a fling. I will not make myself vulnerable at this time, so I am not ready for an intimate relationship, a love relationship, at this time.

It is a tad worrying when one of the biggest-selling female artists is Taylor Swift, who came out with this number...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-q-xI3Lpo0 - Blank slate.

Basically a NIGHTMARE...

I try to avoid L&D. Now I remember why.

Look: Not everything that isn't singing praises is an attack. Based on my experience of the modern woman, Aspie1 has a legitimate fear. There ARE women out there who WILL do this. And they LOOK for "beta-males" to attack, because they pay out better.

Most of the women on this board are, if not paragons of practical female virtue, at least basically decent. We tend to assume that, as we are, so is 99.8% of womanhood. That figure is almost undoubtedly inflated. There is ALL KINDS OF KRAZY OUT THERE. If we're going to insist that we're INDIVIDUALS, we have to accept that some of us are ROTTEN INDIVIDUALS.

And that it can be hard for someone with autistic social instincts to tell the difference, and thus that Aspie1 has a legitimate fear.

Aspie1: Some women are as you fear; some are not.

THIS IS IMPORTANT: You ABSOLUTELY MUST find a way to confront, deal with, leash, and bench this fear BEFORE YOU ENTER ANY FORM OF COMMITTED RELATIONSHIP. If you don't, you're leaving the door wide open to become a victim, an abuser, and a whole lot of other things you never, ever, ever in your life wanted to be. You will see threats where there are none, miss threats where they actually exist, and go completely and totally batshit crazy chasing your own tail without ever actually being any safer, saner, happier, or healthier for it. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, CARRY THIS BAGGAGE INTO A RELATIONSHIP.

I think this was the mistake my father-in-law made. He alienated his first wife, broke his second wife's spirit, destroyed his relationship with three out of his four kids, destroyed the self-esteem and mental health of all four of his kids, did his level damn best to destroy the fourth child's marriage, broke his daughter-in-law's spirit, and damaged two of his grandkids in ways that I thank the Good Lord are not looking to be irreparable. To top it all off, he died a bitter, angry man without ever realizing what he'd done. In his world, he was just trying to protect himself and his kids.

Don't be my father-in-law. His life was a sad, sorry, peaked-at-eighteen existence. I wouldn't wish that on someone I hated, and I actually kind of like you.


I know of at least two ways to interact with and date women without running a real big risk of having your life completely, utterly, and totally ruined by one of the horrible, evil, sad, tragic, depressing, disgusting ones that almost seem to validate the doctrine of Original Sin and prove the existence of Jezebel Spirits and the Devil. Either of the following two courses of action should be effective:

Course 1: Be a playboy. Don't let them move in, don't let them get to know you beneath the mask, and ALWAYS bring, and wear, your own condoms. Let it be known that this is about a casual good time and casual sex-- a good time straight out of Playboy magazine. No less, and NO MORE. Do not, under any circumstances, allow yourself to develop "feelings" for a woman or allow one to develop "feelings" for you. If "feelings" begin to develop, end the relationship posthaste.

There is no societal law that says that one MUST form a committed relationship, MUST marry, MUST bear children, MUST any of that stuff. It's the common course, and the one we're pressured to choose, but that doesn't make it the right one for everyone or the most valid among courses. If your folks will be disappointed not to get grandkids out of the deal-- OH WELL. They had their chance. This is your life. Perhaps they can find other needy and/or deserving children upon whom to lavish their frustrated affections. God knows there's no shortage of kids in this world, and we make more every day.

If you're going to live that life, ALWAYS CARRY YOUR OWN CONDOMS. Use them the first time, every time, and all the time. Your penis should not contact ANY ORIFICE normally covered by underwear without being covered in a fresh sheet of spermicidally lubricated latex. EVER.

I don't care if she swears she's on the Pill, or if you SAW her get the Depo shot, or if she swears she inherited her mother's endometriosis, or if you can see the scar from the friggin' hysterectomy. Even if she doesn't get pregnant, there are diseases out there that eat Penicillin for breakfast. PLAYBOYS WHO DON'T WEAR CONDOMS ARE PLAYING RUSSIAN ROULETTE, WITH FIVE CHAMBERS LOADED.

Personally, I don't recommend it. But that's the way I'm wired. I knew from the time I was old enough to menstruate that I'd either be a wife or a spinster, no middle ground. Not everyone is wired that way; YMMV. Hey-- I married and had four kids. I have a cousin who's married and pushing 40 with no desire for any kids, a cousin who's in his early 30s who has never dated, is presumed to be gay, and refuses to cohabitate with so much as a roommate, and a cousin who's in her 40s, divorced, and just recently finished adopting a teenager. ONE of these choices is "normal." ALL of these choices are valid, acceptable, basically pro-social, and therefore "OK."

It has things to recommend it. It stays fresh and fun. Provided you observe a considerable degree of caution, it's fairly uncomplicated. It avoids all the emotional morass of relationships. In exchange for that, well, there's no emotional or social support, no depth, and no one around to clean up when the party's over. When the music stops, you're on your own; please plan accordingly.

Now, because I was ALWAYS looking to marry (having quickly come to the conclusion that I did not wish to live my life alone), most of the distilled results of 37 years' worth of thinking on the subject (AKA advice) that I have to offer runs in that vein. If you don't want to read that kind of advice, stop now and save an hour.

Course 2: Be cautious. Don't date, if your intention in dating is to find one to marry, girls who demand that you buy all the meals, pay for all the entertainment, shower them with gifts, and titillate them with amazing vacations. Simply refuse to do these things. Meals should be Dutch-treat or paid for in turn-and-turn-again fashion: If you buy this one, she buys the next one. Gifts (other than very small ones, on the level of "coffee and a donut" in expense) should be restricted to special occasions and major achievements, and then they should be reasonable in cost ("reasonable" is an individual mutual decision, but I'll give you a hint-- the jewelry commercials on TV ain't reasonable!!). Vacations should be rare, mutually appealing, and common enough in scope not to make people go, "WOW!! !". Common in scope for dating people: Weekend engaging in a mutually enjoyed activity at a facility within driving distance of where you live, with a comfortable hotel room. Ridiculous in scope for dating people: Weekend in Paris, 3-day luxury cruise, whisking her off to the Alps, or other fairy-tale behaviors.

Not doing these things will weed out the gold-diggers, the pathologically shallow, and those who are in love with what you can give them versus who and what you appear to be.

On that note-- You never get to stop minding your manners and trying to be kind, considerate, and polite. Do Unto Others never, ever goes away-- not even after you've been married for 65 years and have adjoining beds on the dementia ward.

But, if you are looking for one to marry, the mask needs to start coming off early in the relationship. After exchanging last names, before exchanging bodily fluids. She needs to do the same: Wearing a social mask comes easier and more naturally for NTs, but they get sick of it too and also need their homes and marriages to be a safe place where they can let their hair, their pants, and their guard down and just be themselves. If you can't do that together and be HAPPY ENOUGH, then your pieces don't fit, you're not the right match, and you're going to make a miserable marriage that could very well degenerate into the kind of "You-stole-my-life-I-hate-you-and-you-owe-me" bitterness you see so much of on A Certain Forum That Shall Not Be Named.

This is where so many AS/NT marriages go bad. The AS counterpart is constantly on his/her ABA-graduate best behavior until after (sometimes well after) the marriage-- and then s/he burns out, or stressors (work, kids, bills, whatever) rise to the point that s/he no longer has sufficient energy to rise to the occasion. The NT partner doesn't understand what happened, didn't see it coming, and feels understandably blindsided and deceived. Nobody had malicious intentions, but all kinds of malice results.

IMPORTANT: DO NOT COHABITATE DURING THE "LEARNING EACH OTHER" STAGE. Do not share an address, at minimum, until a wedding date is set. If you are sharing a dwelling, you are collectively too involved, too invested, and too dependent on each other to be able to put an end to it if you realize your pieces don't fit.

This is where my husband and I screwed up when we were young. We realized that the fit was rough-- but he was financially dependent on me, I was mentally dependent on him, we were emotionally dependent on each other, and the idea of ending it was just too scary. We figured that we'd learn each other better, and grow together, as we went along.

Sixteen years and four kids later, we're yoked together for better or for worse, but our natures pull in opposite directions, some of our values are mutually exclusive, and we set off each others' emotional pathologies just by trying to meet our own needs. Instead of growing together, we've grown apart. Our marriage isn't made in Hell, but it isn't made in Heaven either. As things stand right now, I can honestly see us being OK with limping it along in accordance with the Golden Rule until the last kid leaves home (at least 16 more years from now), and then laying down our cards, dividing up the assets according to what came in with or was earned by whom, and parting ways with a stiffly polite handshake and a "Thanks for everything." He goes back to Florida a reasonably wealthy and broken man, I go back to West Virginia a tolerably poor and emotionally crippled woman, and we never see or speak to each other again unless we HAVE to be in the same place at the same time for some child-related function, at which time we manage to be coolly polite.

That's not the worst possible outcome, but it isn't the desired one either, and the thought of it all breaks my heart for all six of us on a weekly basis.

I digress. If you take your collective masks off and she turns out to be controlling, or pathologically jealous, or insurmountably insecure, or horribly dependent on mind-altering recreational substances, or so docile and submissive that you have to be careful not to break her and end up feeling more like her parent than her partner (where we've fetched up), or hopelessly irresponsible, or flatly unwilling to acknowledge or actively and intelligently attend to her own developmental, behavioral, or mental disorders (because most people have at least one)-- RUN!! !!

I try to avoid L&D. Now I remember why.

Look: Not everything that isn't singing praises is an attack. Based on my experience of the modern woman, Aspie1 has a legitimate fear. There ARE women out there who WILL do this. And they LOOK for "beta-males" to attack, because they pay out better.

Most of the women on this board are, if not paragons of practical female virtue, at least basically decent. We tend to assume that, as we are, so is 99.8% of womanhood. That figure is almost undoubtedly inflated. There is ALL KINDS OF KRAZY OUT THERE. If we're going to insist that we're INDIVIDUALS, we have to accept that some of us are ROTTEN INDIVIDUALS.

And that it can be hard for someone with autistic social instincts to tell the difference, and thus that Aspie1 has a legitimate fear.

Aspie1: Some women are as you fear; some are not.

THIS IS IMPORTANT: You ABSOLUTELY MUST find a way to confront, deal with, leash, and bench this fear BEFORE YOU ENTER ANY FORM OF COMMITTED RELATIONSHIP. If you don't, you're leaving the door wide open to become a victim, an abuser, and a whole lot of other things you never, ever, ever in your life wanted to be. You will see threats where there are none, miss threats where they actually exist, and go completely and totally batshit crazy chasing your own tail without ever actually being any safer, saner, happier, or healthier for it. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, CARRY THIS BAGGAGE INTO A RELATIONSHIP.

I think this was the mistake my father-in-law made. He alienated his first wife, broke his second wife's spirit, destroyed his relationship with three out of his four kids, destroyed the self-esteem and mental health of all four of his kids, did his level damn best to destroy the fourth child's marriage, broke his daughter-in-law's spirit, and damaged two of his grandkids in ways that I thank the Good Lord are not looking to be irreparable. To top it all off, he died a bitter, angry man without ever realizing what he'd done. In his world, he was just trying to protect himself and his kids.

Don't be my father-in-law. His life was a sad, sorry, peaked-at-eighteen existence. I wouldn't wish that on someone I hated, and I actually kind of like you.


I know of at least two ways to interact with and date women without running a real big risk of having your life completely, utterly, and totally ruined by one of the horrible, evil, sad, tragic, depressing, disgusting ones that almost seem to validate the doctrine of Original Sin and prove the existence of Jezebel Spirits and the Devil. Either of the following two courses of action should be effective:

Course 1: Be a playboy. Don't let them move in, don't let them get to know you beneath the mask, and ALWAYS bring, and wear, your own condoms. Let it be known that this is about a casual good time and casual sex-- a good time straight out of Playboy magazine. No less, and NO MORE. Do not, under any circumstances, allow yourself to develop "feelings" for a woman or allow one to develop "feelings" for you. If "feelings" begin to develop, end the relationship posthaste.

There is no societal law that says that one MUST form a committed relationship, MUST marry, MUST bear children, MUST any of that stuff. It's the common course, and the one we're pressured to choose, but that doesn't make it the right one for everyone or the most valid among courses. If your folks will be disappointed not to get grandkids out of the deal-- OH WELL. They had their chance. This is your life. Perhaps they can find other needy and/or deserving children upon whom to lavish their frustrated affections. God knows there's no shortage of kids in this world, and we make more every day.

If you're going to live that life, ALWAYS CARRY YOUR OWN CONDOMS. Use them the first time, every time, and all the time. Your penis should not contact ANY ORIFICE normally covered by underwear without being covered in a fresh sheet of spermicidally lubricated latex. EVER.

I don't care if she swears she's on the Pill, or if you SAW her get the Depo shot, or if she swears she inherited her mother's endometriosis, or if you can see the scar from the friggin' hysterectomy. Even if she doesn't get pregnant, there are diseases out there that eat Penicillin for breakfast. PLAYBOYS WHO DON'T WEAR CONDOMS ARE PLAYING RUSSIAN ROULETTE, WITH FIVE CHAMBERS LOADED.

Personally, I don't recommend it. But that's the way I'm wired. I knew from the time I was old enough to menstruate that I'd either be a wife or a spinster, no middle ground. Not everyone is wired that way; YMMV. Hey-- I married and had four kids. I have a cousin who's married and pushing 40 with no desire for any kids, a cousin who's in his early 30s who has never dated, is presumed to be gay, and refuses to cohabitate with so much as a roommate, and a cousin who's in her 40s, divorced, and just recently finished adopting a teenager. ONE of these choices is "normal." ALL of these choices are valid, acceptable, basically pro-social, and therefore "OK."

It has things to recommend it. It stays fresh and fun. Provided you observe a considerable degree of caution, it's fairly uncomplicated. It avoids all the emotional morass of relationships. In exchange for that, well, there's no emotional or social support, no depth, and no one around to clean up when the party's over. When the music stops, you're on your own; please plan accordingly.

Now, because I was ALWAYS looking to marry (having quickly come to the conclusion that I did not wish to live my life alone), most of the distilled results of 37 years' worth of thinking on the subject (AKA advice) that I have to offer runs in that vein. If you don't want to read that kind of advice, stop now and save an hour.

Course 2: Be cautious. Don't date, if your intention in dating is to find one to marry, girls who demand that you buy all the meals, pay for all the entertainment, shower them with gifts, and titillate them with amazing vacations. Simply refuse to do these things. Meals should be Dutch-treat or paid for in turn-and-turn-again fashion: If you buy this one, she buys the next one. Gifts (other than very small ones, on the level of "coffee and a donut" in expense) should be restricted to special occasions and major achievements, and then they should be reasonable in cost ("reasonable" is an individual mutual decision, but I'll give you a hint-- the jewelry commercials on TV ain't reasonable!!). Vacations should be rare, mutually appealing, and common enough in scope not to make people go, "WOW!! !". Common in scope for dating people: Weekend engaging in a mutually enjoyed activity at a facility within driving distance of where you live, with a comfortable hotel room. Ridiculous in scope for dating people: Weekend in Paris, 3-day luxury cruise, whisking her off to the Alps, or other fairy-tale behaviors.

Not doing these things will weed out the gold-diggers, the pathologically shallow, and those who are in love with what you can give them versus who and what you appear to be.

On that note-- You never get to stop minding your manners and trying to be kind, considerate, and polite. Do Unto Others never, ever goes away-- not even after you've been married for 65 years and have adjoining beds on the dementia ward.

But, if you are looking for one to marry, the mask needs to start coming off early in the relationship. After exchanging last names, before exchanging bodily fluids. She needs to do the same: Wearing a social mask comes easier and more naturally for NTs, but they get sick of it too and also need their homes and marriages to be a safe place where they can let their hair, their pants, and their guard down and just be themselves. If you can't do that together and be HAPPY ENOUGH, then your pieces don't fit, you're not the right match, and you're going to make a miserable marriage that could very well degenerate into the kind of "You-stole-my-life-I-hate-you-and-you-owe-me" bitterness you see so much of on A Certain Forum That Shall Not Be Named.

This is where so many AS/NT marriages go bad. The AS counterpart is constantly on his/her ABA-graduate best behavior until after (sometimes well after) the marriage-- and then s/he burns out, or stressors (work, kids, bills, whatever) rise to the point that s/he no longer has sufficient energy to rise to the occasion. The NT partner doesn't understand what happened, didn't see it coming, and feels understandably blindsided and deceived. Nobody had malicious intentions, but all kinds of malice results.

IMPORTANT: DO NOT COHABITATE DURING THE "LEARNING EACH OTHER" STAGE. Do not share an address, at minimum, until a wedding date is set. If you are sharing a dwelling, you are collectively too involved, too invested, and too dependent on each other to be able to put an end to it if you realize your pieces don't fit.

This is where my husband and I screwed up when we were young. We realized that the fit was rough-- but he was financially dependent on me, I was mentally dependent on him, we were emotionally dependent on each other, and the idea of ending it was just too scary. We figured that we'd learn each other better, and grow together, as we went along.

Sixteen years and four kids later, we're yoked together for better or for worse, but our natures pull in opposite directions, some of our values are mutually exclusive, and we set off each others' emotional pathologies just by trying to meet our own needs. Instead of growing together, we've grown apart. Our marriage isn't made in Hell, but it isn't made in Heaven either. As things stand right now, I can honestly see us being OK with limping it along in accordance with the Golden Rule until the last kid leaves home (at least 16 more years from now), and then laying down our cards, dividing up the assets according to what came in with or was earned by whom, and parting ways with a stiffly polite handshake and a "Thanks for everything." He goes back to Florida a reasonably wealthy and broken man, I go back to West Virginia a tolerably poor and emotionally crippled woman, and we never see or speak to each other again unless we HAVE to be in the same place at the same time for some child-related function, at which time we manage to be coolly polite.

That's not the worst possible outcome, but it isn't the desired one either, and the thought of it all breaks my heart for all six of us on a weekly basis.

I digress. If you take your collective masks off and she turns out to be controlling, or pathologically jealous, or insurmountably insecure, or horribly dependent on mind-altering recreational substances, or so docile and submissive that you have to be careful not to break her and end up feeling more like her parent than her partner (where we've fetched up), or hopelessly irresponsible, or flatly unwilling to acknowledge or actively and intelligently attend to her own developmental, behavioral, or mental disorders (because most people have at least one)-- RUN!! !!

I survived a nine year abusive relationship and it did effect my ability to trust - I don't trust anyone not to hurt me, in fact, I expect them to.
Long-term relationships are unnatural. Of course there are exceptions, but most relationships end in abuse and separation; even with neurotypicals.
This is why I think you should stick to escorts. I don't myself, but I have a long-term relationship that is mostly about sex. We lived together a couple of times and it didn't work, so know we just "date."
It would be great to be part of functioning couple, but the chances are against it.

Yes there are dysfunctional people out there, yes abuse can happen from both parties, yes those things do happen but I think they are rare. I have also heard stories about women killing their husbands when they get tired of them so instead of divorcing them, they kill them. Ruth Snyder hired a guy to kill her husband, Judy Bruenano poisoned her husband and common husband and attempted to kill her fiance but she was greedy and did it all for money so whenever she got tired of them, she would kill them instead just to collect insurance and she would put them on life insurance first.

You also hear about parents hurting their children or killing them, kids being abused at daycare and at school, kids being abused by babysitters or nanny. There are also ugly custody stories about married couples with kids and ugly going through a divorce stories without kids.


You can let the media get to you and keep you from entering a relationship.

[MODERATOR]

The OP is acknowledging he has issues and is attempting to work through them. Being apprehensive about relationships isn't "misogyny," especially since I've witnessed the aftermath of many a relationship gone sour.

I would suggest that people try offering productive solutions as opposed to, "OMG, u r so rong to think dat way," style posts.

Thank you.

[/MODERATOR]