Toxic Masculinty

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ok well you just go ahead and see how far being an autistic and chauvinistic "alpha male" gets you (my guess is, not very far).

About as far as being an autistic feminist "beta male" will, meaning not very. But at least I'll be free from the feminist imperative's control.

I'm not an alpha male or a beta male, because those are ridiculous terms for ridiculous people. As it is, I'm pretty happy with my life and the company I keep. All of my friends are very feminist, besides being anti-racist, queer, and anti-capitalist. I'm not under anybody's control but my own, but thanks for your concern.

Have you considered that being "shy, nerdy, conventionally-unattractive" is not something that just men have to deal with? There are women who are autistic, fat, nerdy, etc.

Last edited by halleluhwah on 19 Apr 2015, 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If all that's true, and I very much doubt it is (I very much doubt you're happy with the current state of affairs), then great, power to you. But I personally refuse to subscribe to a system or ideology that has its main goal, my subjugation and that of others like me. And that's what modern feminism is.

This isn't about being alpha or beta, it's about knowing who's on your side and who isn't, and feminism is NOT on my side.

Machismo isn't really that useful when it comes to getting __a__ job. There are certain kinds of jobs where it is useful, but many of the highest paying jobs really don't require it at all. If you wanna be a bouncer, a solider, a cop, a professional athlete, or a some high end business

How the hell do you think feminism is going to subjugate people like you? Like I said, there are conventionally-unattractive and nerdy women as well as men. There are shy, autistic women on this very forum. Feminism is on their side, too. Feminism is not some secret plan to subjugate nerdy or unattractive people, because those people can be women and feminists.

In theory, this is entirely true. But in practice, 21st century feminism is being used to try to subjugate nerdy, unattractive MEN.

In a matriarchal society, a man's worth would be judged entirely by his sex appeal to women. Women on the other hand, would be free from competition and would get to share the desirable men with each other. That is, competition among men for status, wealth, and sexual access to women is not exclusively unique to patriarchy. In truly patriarchal societies, like ultra-conservative non-secular Muslim countries, what ends of up happening is that the "alpha" males get all the women since polygamy is allowed and the lesser males get NONE. Women in those cultures are viewed as property and have no sexual freedom whatsoever even though they don't compete with each other to the extent that western women do.

But what is happening is that nerdy, geeky, socially awkard men are starting to rise in social status because technology is becoming so important that people are beginning to rely more and more on machines instead of relying on their fellow man. Historically, nerds could not compete with alphas but that is changing. So now the alphas are teaming up with feminists to try to subjugate nerds and put them back in their place because their inherited privilege is threatened. They now have competition their forefathers never had to worry about and it people get butthurt when those they view as inferior suddenly have the power to challenge them.

That's.... not happening?

First of all, I don't see much truth in this historical narrative where nerds were oppressed and then stopped being so. Machines have been changing the way labor is performed since at least the 18th century, depending on what we count as a machine. The people who benefit from the work performed with these machines have not been the people performing the labor. That's what capitalism is-- exploitation by capitalists. These capitalists might be "alpha males" in the sense that they are self-assured and overconfident, but they're not all stereotypical jocks or something. The categories you're using don't even exist in the real world; they're the mentality of a middle schooler who still sees the world in terms of cliques.

Fewer than 5% of CEOs in the Fortune 500 are women. On the other hand, I'm willing to bet that much more than 5% of them would qualify as "nerds." Women are routinely harassed, judged based on their appearance, and raped.

It's true that many straight women prefer muscular, conventionally attractive men, just as many straight men prefer skinny, large-breasted women. There are exceptions on both sides. Personally, I'm not a woman, but I'm mostly attracted to men and masculine-of-center people with skinny builds who are interested in the humanities. I know a lot of women who share this attraction. Many of my feminist friends are also lesbians, which says a lot about how much they want to have a bunch of buff husbands. Only women are routinely judged by their physical appearance when it comes to things that shouldn't be related to sex in the first place.

Have you heard of the "male gaze" or the bechdel test? Do you not see the way that, even in the 21st century, a man's perspective and experience is given priority and treated as the norm? There's still a pay gap between men's wages and women's.

Have you seen this study? Even in the academic community, which is frequently cited as being too "progressive" or "leftist," female students are demonstrated to have a harder time getting professors' attention than male students.

Ask yourselves this: where were the feminists when Chris Brown beat seveteen different types of s**t out of Rihanna? Nowhere. They were nowhere to be found. They didn't make a beep, because in their view, Chris Brown is a "worthy" male, and he was well in his right to do what he did. I bet most feminazis would give their left ovary to be in Rihanna's place.

But when Scott Aaronson, a MIT professor who has the misfortune of looking like a real-life negative caricature of nerds, dared to make a post complaining about how feminism contributed to make his childhood and teenage years hell and almost caused him to self-mutilate to assuage the crippling feeling of guilt it instilled... well, just type the words "Scott Aaronson" and "feminism" on Google and watch the debacle that unfolded.

Moral of the story: if you're a shy, geeky, convencionally-unattractive, like I am, and like I'd wager most other people here are as well, then feminism is your number one enemy. And they hate you because of what you are and not what you do, so there's nothing you can do about it. Don't even bother trying to appease them, just accept it and move on.

Are you kidding me? I know people who still refuse to listen to Chris Brown because of what he did. None of what you're saying is based in any sort of fact. You're mad because you aren't conventionally attractive or whatever, and you're blaming all of your problems on feminists. I know plenty of nerdy men who have girlfriends and boyfriends, because they have good personalities. That personality starts with not being a misogynist.

Most of the men I see complaining about this stuff don't look twice at conventionally unattractive women. They won't sleep with fat women, and they say terrible things about trans* women. Anybody can find somebody to sleep with or date, if they just don't act like a jerk. So many straight white men think the world should revolve around them. You think fat, nerdy women have an easier time than you? Jesus

Alright, where is it? Show me the feminist outrage at Chris Brown after what he did to Rihanna. Surely, you can find some vestige of it, even after all these years. Old articles? Blog posts? Maybe some video of some noteworthy self-proclaimed feminist speaking out about it, anything at all?



In other words, I'm not mad and bitter because women rejected me, women rejected because I'm mad and bitter, and I'm mad and bitter because... reasons. Certainly never heard that one before...



Are you saying this to try and convince me... or to try and convince yourself?

If you're conventionally unattractive, many women won't want to sleep with you obviously. That makes you bitter and bigoted, which turns off a lot of the other women. There's no circularity or infinite regress here, no matter how much you'd like there to be.

I don't follow blogs, so I can't tell you anything about where to find posts on Chris Brown or Rihanna. I know that when it was happening, it was trending big-time. People spoke out about it on every radio station, social media website, news site, forums, and I would guess blogs. The reason we're sitting here talking about it now is that obviously people made a big deal out of it at the time, and we know that it happened. To be honest, I still haven't really figured out how tumblr works (it seems kind of pointless to me), and I don't know any other blog websites, so you would be better off asking somebody else for help with that.

And I don't need to convince myself, so I'm hoping to convince you

You're doing a pretty piss poor job at it then, I'm sorry to say.

Even your logic in the first paragraph, it doesn't like my being bitter and enraged seems to be much of a factor. If women won't sleep with me because I'm not conventionally attractive, what does it matter how I personally feel? Also, I'd like to emphasize that anger and bitterness are the NATURAL reaction to years of social and sexual rejection and disenfranchisement.

And yes, I know a lot of people talked about what happened between Rihanna and Chris Brown, it was national headlines, ffs. That's not what I'm asking. What I'm asking is what, if anything, did FEMINISTS say about it?

Couldn't agree on this more. I avoid folks like that like the plague.

Dr. Robert Sapolsky has some great studies on that sort of behavior.

What the hell do you mean what did feminists say about it? It's not like there's some organized political party called "the feminists" that makes statements on some events and ignores others. My friends who are feminists had plenty to say about it. Most of the people who commented on it were probably feminists of various types.

And like I said, there are women who will sleep with you, so just stop saying that. There are women out there who will sleep with literally anybody, just like there are men who would.

Nobody owes you sex, and the fact that people you were attracted to didn't sleep with you isn't the same as being "disenfranchised."

You don't need an academic "historical context" to see how nerds, and particularly autistic nerds have been oppressed. Just look at any high school! Nerds/dorks/geeks still face bullying, harassment, and rejection in American grade schools. And furthermore, I can't even begin to tell you how many blog posts and forum posts(on WP and other sites)I've seen decrying "nerd entitlement"; which is a reaction to nerdy guys pursuing attractive women who are supposedly "out of their league". The fact that women as a group still have problems and legitimate grievances doesn't imply that men(or at least some men) have everything fine and dandy nor does it justify a lack of self-criticism on the part of women and feminists. Stop playing victim olympics! It doesn't make it better for anyone.

As far this "bechdel test" is concerned....Lies, DAMNED LIES, and statistics. You cannot prove anything with statistics and that test was invented by an American cartoonist, not a psychologist. If you dislike the way that women are represented in fiction and fiction-based media, write you own scripts that represent them in a better way rather than whining about it.

Feminism has been around for decades. And I'm not going to argue that it is an abject failure, but I hope you have insight to realize that there is NO ideology that will solve all of societies problems nor make life fair for everyone. This whole dating caste system that people buy into(like Fnord for example) is really ridonkulous.
While you cannot control what people are attracted to nor compel them to choose when they are free to date and sleep with whomever they choose(so long as both parties are age 18++), this idea that there are fixed social rules about who people can or should date is outdated and should be disregarded. Find someone who's into you for your true self and who you feel the same way about! As for who those people are, it really depends on each individual.