Friendzone

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Tit for tat. If a girl did this to me, I'd very quickly turn the tables and profess to her how girls seldom see me as romantic/date-worthy material, and I'd cite that even she has turned me down.

Of course, that would only be if I didn't particularly value the friendship very much. Otherwise, I would just air my issues with conversations about her and her romantic partners.

It's kind of a self-fulfilling thing. If you use the term 'friendzone', you should probably be 'friendzoned'.

If you're getting into friendships solely to get a romantic or sexual relationship - well, don't. Make your desires and intentions clear, and make your move. If your feelings aren't reciprocated but you still value the person - which, given you wanted to couple-up with them, I hope you do - and the possibility is there, be friends. If that's too difficult or painful for you - which it may well be - move on.

There's the more difficult matter of what runs along as a good friendship for a while and then one party develops an unrequited romantic interest. That sucks.

If you're faking an interest in a friendship in order to get someone into bed or coupledom, you're a jerk.

If, as happens, someone is using your romantic interest in order to treat you in ways they wouldn't someone with no such interest, they're a jerk.

If you're faking a friendship to get them into bed, and they're aware you want something more and (ab)use that interest, you're both jerks. I hope you're happy together, and that you being jerks to each other means there's less jerkdom going around to mess with the non-jerks.

Quite!

It's mindboggling. The term itself makes it seem like being someone's friend is somehow a punishment. I mean, I basically have no friends (I find it hard to get one started, even more so keeping one going), but if someone felt being my friend was something they had to suffer so that they might somehow have a chance at a romantic relationship - well, who would want a friend like that? Who would think anyone would want a 'friend' like that?

You'd be surprised what can go over my head for 20 years. I know that the stereotype and pattern is that men interpret every comment from women as an invitation, but second-guessing that terrifies me. So I was very good at missing subtle or blatant indications of interest.

I can't even repeat some of them on a family-friendly site. The less bawdy ones are like giving me their number unasked, and telling me in a hushed way to call them if I ever want to go to dinner or something. To my ears then, it sounded like they wanted to go get some food. I don't beat myself up for missing them; my 20's were kind of lonely but I wouldn't have been able to handle more intimacy than I got.

Uh... that doesn't seem obvious to me at all. Seems to me like they expected you to make a pretty big leap in logic there. What the hell?

When I met the future Mrs Hopper, she kept inviting me round to her house (we were both in our late teens, living at home). I kept putting it off, as I liked her and thought it wasn't reciprocated, and it would be awkward to sit there talking with her, as conversation wasn't my strength. I did, in the end, and there came a point where we were in her room, listening to music, making a lot of eye contact. She eventually sighed and said, 'so are we going to kiss, then?'.

If my obliviousness doesn't deflect a possible signal of interest, my doubting and low self-esteem will.

There are people out there who will lie, cheat, deceive, discriminate, bully, emotionally abuse, steal, hit, stab, rape and kill to get their own way, but you're right, a girl friendzoning you because she's not interested in you romantically definitely tops the list of despicable acts.

Seriously though, women aren't rejecting you because they want you to feel emotional anguish. They're rejecting you because you either lack attributes they're looking for in a partner, or you possess attributes that they're not looking for in a partner. Fortunately, not every girl is looking for the same things, so one girl's turn-off may be another girl's turn-on. Of course, there is mass appeal towards certain attributes like having stable employment, being physically fit, etcetera, etcetera.

Well, if you can find out how to appeal to every single woman on the planet, let me know, but seeing as that is quite literally impossible, a more realistic goal would be becoming the best version of yourself you can.

Rejection comes with seeking a relationship. The only way you can guarantee that you'll never be rejected again is to never ask anyone out again.


It might be good to remember that women can often spend hours prettying themselves up, ensuring that make-up application is done well and their hair is perfect. Some women work out too, which is even more time devoted to looking aesthetically pleasing. I wouldn't call that doing nothing. How much time a week do you spend making yourself look good?

It's just the way the dating market is. Women assume the passive dating role whilst men assume the active dating role. Perhaps girls don't approach us guys with romantic intent most of the time, but at least we seldom have to turn women down either. Women have to deal with frequently being hit on and approached, in sometimes sexually explicit or aggressive ways by guys they aren't interested in. Not only is rejecting someone not a pleasant experience for either party, but women also have to worry about how the guy will react to their rejection, because there's always a chance that the guy will become violent after being outright rejected. We may well not receive the same degree of romantic validation as most girls do, but at least we aren't generally in the position where we have to turn multiple people down and be worried about how they're going to react.

Quite. If the rule is 'men have to make the first move', the corollary is 'women have to wait for men to make the move'. Neither of those is particularly fun, but at least guys don't have to wait for someone they're interested in to come on to them.

It's disheartening to do your best, be your best, make your interest known and be turned down. But let's flip that: It's not exactly a walk in the park to try and catch someone's attention, to flirt and flaunt and flatter and work on your appearance only to have the object of your desire barely notice you exist, all the while others noticing both your behaviour - 'eesh, what a tramp!' - and your humiliation.

If you've been "Friend-Zoned", then it's time for you to work on your appearance, attitude, and behavior.

- If you look like a loser - bad hair, sloppy clothes, scraggly beard - then people will think of you as a loser. Get a nice haircut, shine your shoes, and dress like you're going to a job interview.

- If you believe that people don't like you, then you'd already defeated yourself. It was when I stopped caring if I got a date that women seemed to be attracted to me.

- If you act like a loser, a perv, or a thug, then people will treat you like a loser, a perv, or a thug. Act like a person who is having a good time, and people are more likely to see you as fun to be with.

Simplistic, yes ... but effective.

I am giving a tame one for WP. The ones where they say something so suggestive that everyone leaves the room and tells me to have fun, I can't say here. In some cases I got apologies from them for freaking me out.

Please don't WTH me - I did the right thing by your book, I ignored her forever. I grew up sexually abused and aspie, and have a lifelong fear of overstepping bounds with women. I didn't harm in all those cases.

Not all men are aggressive pricks, some of us are very scared and echoey underneath. I do know what it feels like to be aggressively pursued, so I appreciate your WTH in terms of self-defense. I am just lucky that my current partner gently chased me down enough that we could have a nice life together.

You have to act confident, even if you're in a situation that wouldn't normally make someone feel confident. I know I use James Bond as an example all the time, but he really is the best example. How would James Bond react (confidence and personality wise, not fighting bad guys) if he suddenly had to live with his parents. I know that sounds really silly, but it helps. Would he not be confident since he has to live at home for the moment? No, he's f**king James Bond, he's confident in all situations.

That's all well and good but I still don't get what "obvious invitations" are. I don't understand these sorts of things very well.

I'm going to step aside and not try to explain this, other than it is now apparent to me that they were inviting me to go on a romantic date of some sort, and I missed it or freaked out. It happened with men and women.

I'll leave it there. All of this is outside of the OP's point and I really don't want to encounter any barbs based on other people's bad experiences.

Why is it when people say things that make you 'more interesting', it always involves activities that require a degree of physical dexterity.

I have none, for what it is worth, I've had issues with physical co-ordination from early childhood. I spent 10 years of hell being forced to learn a musical instrument. Sports and dancing are equally humiliating and tend to make me an object of fun rather than someone who is 'interesting'.

I mean, I have 3 degrees in history and computer science, I am learning a foreign language and live abroad, I read 30-50 books a year on everything from science to philosophy to literature, I work for a tech company and I have my own place, and I probably hike about 500-1000 miles a year. But because I don't kick a ball around or dance like some moron apparently I am 'uninteresting'.

Lol not really, there is no law about this as far as I am concerned. If you are in a position that makes you get approached, nothing forbids you to approach. But if you are only in the position that makes you approach, making others approach you doesn't depend on you.
Also I am curious, are you implying that guys have it easier at dating?

I had to "friend-zone" a woman, once. It was freakin' great!

So you think any woman you're attracted to owes you a relationship and will evict any women who just want to be friends. Just make sure if you do have any female friends to tell them asp that by seeing you as a friend they've humilated and annoyed you because you deserve more goddammit....if they wont have sex with you then you don't want to associate with them.

But yeah there is no way to ensure you're never seen as a friend rather than a potential date by a woman...you can't force any woman you find attractive to have mutual attraction, that is just not how it works.