I am feeling ashamed of myself

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Maybe if I reached 70-80 they'd matter but freak that I don't want to be single and lonely depressed til 70 , also won't even want a relationship past 40 as it'll be too late to do the things I want in a couple.

There are probably more guys like LaMere's boyfriend out there than there are "muscular," "alpha" males. Normal guys just trying to live in the world.

I understand how you feel ashamed - I myself can feel ashamed about feeling like a late bloomer, like I am so behind my peers in things. But as for the things you are mentioning - consider this: I tried out all kinds of stuff that was "supposed to be fun/satisfying" etc in my twenties....only to find that the things that NTs found to be so thrilling, normal and fun were in fact not at all satisfying or rewarding for me - so.....I tried out all these situations that I later regretted and didn't even get any real joy or fun out of. Many were even risky. I wish before I could have realized that just because society and movies make it seem like certain typical behaviors are real fun or mark milestones, etc.....that I am different enough that those things were meaningless to me. The things that I did prefer to do were things that others thought were boring....so I felt like a shameful failure when I didn't do the things they were doing on Friday nights....but after some experimentation and realizing I didn't even like what they were doing, I went back to doing my own thing, going my own pace....and it turned out to be much better that way.

There seems to be s lot different from aspie European women vs nt American women. Eupeans are bit less superficial society then USA is.

Also United States is much more spread out which is why European cars had failure rates when first being imported. Most European nations are smaller then just one of our states. Americans are also more independent and commercial driven. Those in power have brainwashed us into thinking every American needs 1-3 cars, multiple tvs, house, vacation home, rv, 4x4 sport things, etc. we are the nation of buy buy buy. Objects make you happy after all so buy more of our stuff we sell.

Wonder if I'd been born in Europe if I'd be better off romantically

That is such a stereotype.

I'd rather earn my own money. I'd be significantly happier having my own house, my own career, my own degree, and my own money. Letting my partner be the sole or main provider would only be putting me in a vulnerable position anyway. I'd rather have control over my own life by being completely independent.

I would expect any man I dated to have a job and be responsible for himself. I wouldn't want to be supported nor pampered just so that I could spend all of my time getting my nails done and going to yoga classes (or whatever it is that those women do).

Lots of women nowadays have their own careers, houses, and cars. They can provide for themselves, and pay for their own vacations, too.

Not mine it comes from a lot of women. They also have their own job. I dont know why but maybe it's same was my brothers wife's parents, both work, but husband pays all bills, vacations, car payments, wife uses all her ,only to buy fun things for herself.

Why do they demand a guy make more then them then? If you can provide for yourself a guy shouldn't have to make more or even as much as you. He should only need make enough for his lifestyle.

You should really confront the majority of women then. Seems to me they want their cake and to eat it too. World existed for thousands of years with guys being sole providers I don't see why in order equality women can't be the main or sole provider in a relationship. Relationships should be more about love and companionship.

Since women are becoming more independent and self-reliant today, the bar has been raised for them to be hardworking and independent. I blame Feminism. No longer can women be housewives (not forced to, but if they wanted to choose to be one) and have a sufficient household income.

Women are wage slaves now just as men are.

The bar has also automatically been raised for men to be just as self-sufficient and independent.

You said it yourself Yigeren - you would only date a man who can take care of himself.

The thing is, in Sly's and my experience, your attitude is extremely common among women, to our disadvantage.

I'm genuinely curious, if you liked a man's personality and appearance, but he worked at Mcdonald's for min. wage, had his learner's but not full liscence, does not own a car, etc.

Let's say he does live on his own, but his mother is very sick so he frequently needs to take care of her.

Would you be okay with dating him, even though every now and then you may have to cover him for dinner, every now and then you might have to drive him around if he can't use the bus system, and every now and then he may ask his friends (or you) for a lift to see his mother - is it worth the effort to give him lifts to his mother even if it's for a good cause?

I'm just 17, but sad thing is I'm already behind everyone else my age.

Driving is a rite of passage in Australia and everyone's in a rush. I've got my learner's and that's it.

I have no interest in driving otherwise and no interest in wasting my money to buy a second hand car and have to cover the costs to take care of it.

I'm unemployed and close to being on disability.

Meanwhile, everyone I went to high school with is already in their first year of university and working part-time.

Even the people taking gap years are taking alternative study, already working, or looking for work and certainly are trying to get their learner's license and move out of home. I am doing none of these things.

I know an 18 year old girl I went to high school with, she's currently living in the big city sharing an apartment with her brother, already driving, owns a car, paying her way through college in her first year, etc.

Total absolute adult level independence immediately after high school.

Even the high school dropouts I know of, 2 are working and the third, she was kicked out of home and is on social security and looking for work before she can save up to move back here.

My entire peers of class of 2015 and she's the only one I'm 'ahead' of in this godforsaken rat race.

I'm from a lower-middle class background so already come from a lower-income family.

I try to treat people of upper and upper middle class and middle class equally, but it's usually they who look down on me first, which has made me develop an attitude of contempt against them.

The vast majority i've ever met in my life show no understanding or empathy and certainly don't know the genuine struggles lower-lower middle class go through.

I don't care, I like living at home. My families high in unemployment and disability, along with being Indigenous Australian, so I observe this a lot. Plenty of households I know where it's the grandparents, mother and father, children, and even a few cousins and uncles and aunts living in one house together.

But, of course, we just look like the typical '5-15 people living in a 3 bedroom house' stereotype commonly among Mexican and Latino families in the U.S.

Well, my socio-economic background has only helped my family build stronger ties.

More distribution of food and luxuries among the house, less money being spent on bills/rent, more time together with your family rather than say living in the big city a few hours away and only getting to visit a few times a month.

Yep, living at home sure sucks...

My mother completely supports me living at home, even to the point she wouldn't care if I had a girlfriend and a kid with me in her house. She said she doesn't like the way my grandmother lives, alone in her house and such, and implied to me she'd be fine if I live with her for the rest of my life.

I do want to live on my own eventually, but for the time being, as long as I pull my own weight, respect her and the family, pay the rent. What's the issue?

But of course, women would look down on me as well.

I agree with Sly, i can't stand societies beliefs that attending university = ambition.

Ambition is an attitude, not just studying to get the damn piece of paper that doesn't truly test knowledge but simply how well you bullsh*tted your way through the system.

Ambition is about being hardworking and independent in your own ways, the best ways you can be.

I started volunteer work despite my difficulties and felt proud of myself, meanwhile most N.T's have had part-time jobs since 14 or 15, and yet I only just began volunteer work at 17?

I got the learner's at 17 1/2, despite everyone else being 16 or recently 17?

I'm not working or studying right now?

Gosh, I must be such a fricken failure, according to Aussie society. But I never believed I was. I'm ambitious, hardworking and a winner simply for surpassing my own limits. I'm the third person in my entire family to graduate high school, and just by doing that, I've already proven I have potential for success.

But society doesn't consider high school graduation an achivement, and it's just the 'bare minimum' of what you should be doing, even less so now that more and more people are attending and graduating college.

I wouldn't date someone who was not able to care for himself, because I am already struggling and cannot afford to be a caretaker to another adult. I would not date a man working for McDonald's, at my age. A man around my age still working at McDonald's likely has a lot of problems, which I cannot deal with. Another important thing is that he's likely to be not that smart. That would never work. I'd need to date someone at least as intelligent as I am, because past experience has shown me that not doing so leads to problems.

I'd be willing to help someone out from time to time, but a relationship should be equal. When one person is doing all of the work, resentment builds. It's not about money, but about effort and equality. I could handle dating a man who made less than I did, as long as he was intelligent, hardworking, and ambitious. Because those are traits that I possess, and I would not be compatible with someone who was not also those things.

If he was working hard at a full-time job (not McDonald's), and trying to better himself, then I wouldn't mind having to pay for things more often, because money is not really the issue.

Formal education is not that important to me, because it is no guarantee of success. I would be impressed by a man who was able to make something of himself without a college education.

Now if I were 10 + years younger, maybe it would make sense that a man I was dating still worked at McDonald's, unless he was older than I was. But I have usually dated older men.

But who says working part-time at mcdonald's is unrelated to ambition?

Perhaps he is hardworking at what he does and has been trying for who knows how long to find a better, higher paying job, but for now he's doing his best (and doing a great job) at all he can get.

You actually sound fair and balanced.

It's just in my and Sly's experience I think the women we typically come across believe working part-time anything = lack of ambition, work ethic, etc.

not currently studying university = lack of ambition, not hardworking, etc.

I've always wondered why age has anything to do with anything once you reach adulthood.

Of course, young people do struggle significantly as they have to make the transition from teenager to adult, and the 16-25 range varies greatly - some may start college at 18, some 20, some 23, some get a good job secured at 18, some still looking hard at 20, etc.

I think in the past it made sense older people have to be set, but today's society I think even older adults are sharing many of the same difficulties making ends meet as someone 10 years younger might.

"I wouldn't date someone who was not able to care for himself, because I am already struggling and cannot afford to be a caretaker to another adult."

But what if he felt the same?

Okay, maybe let's say he doesn't rely completely on you, and that it is equal and balanced and he helps you out just as much as you help him.

But he's certainly struggling to take care of himself, as are you, so wouldn't a relationship where you both give-and-take, mutual benefit, be satisfying for you?

You'd be incapable of dating a man working a minimum wage, part-time job, even if he could contribute just as much as you could?

I'm pretty sure that's Sly...

Unless he works full-time, I'm not sure. But he still mentioned in the past he only earns minimum wage.

You say you don't want a man earning less, yet he has to have at least have a full-time job.

Doesn't that mean that there IS a minimum income a man has to be earning above for you to be interested in a relationship?

And wouldn't that be at least one example of what Sly's talking about, that women require a man with a certain income?

Forget who makes more, that's not what I'm asking.

Anyway, I don't mean to intrude on your life, I'm just curious and of course you don't have to answer.

But with jobs and income, this is what I'm talking about.

Everyone defines 'success' and 'ambition' differently, and for someone of a lower-middle class background of myself, just graduating high school and getting a minimum wage part-time job is 'making something of yourself' in my family.

The bar is far lower among my family as we genuinely struggle to go higher.

Otherwise, families that are middle class and above always set the bar higher for what it means to be successful. And considering most females I'm attracted to happen to be middle class, the bar they have set for me is higher as well (unfairly, but life isn't fair).

Otherwise I'll just have to go for other women of low socio-economic class.

Unfortunately, they are less-than-ideal.

Most of my family and friends are unemployed (and not looking), high school dropouts, and generally either lazy, selfish, greedy, rude, alcoholics, substance abuse, and otherwise what one would call 'low-lifes'.

I have always felt different. I'd be fine with dating another lower-middle class gal, as long as she isn't some parasite sucking off the system, some 18 year old single mother with 2 kids living in a housing commission 2 bedroom house in the projects, doesn't care about her health or fitness at all, etc.

THAT'S my league according to my familie's income, apparently.

But I know I can do better than that.

The question is if young girls my age and young women in the 18-25 range who share your views believe I can as well.

I'm not currently meeting even my own expectations of myself. So what I want for myself, I would expect from any man I dated. I probably would not date someone until I met my own expectations.

For me it's not about income, but what's associated with it. Usually those working minimum-wage jobs have some kind of problem, or aren't very smart. I want to get over my problems, so if I manage to do that, dating someone with significant problems would be like a step backwards. It's quite stressful, and that may be enough to ruin whatever kind of balance that I would have been able to attain.

I doubt I'll be able to work full-time for awhile myself, but that has more to do with medical problems.

A really important thing is that someone with a compatible mind-set will probably want the same things as I do regarding careers and education. I'm an unusual person, so finding someone that I was compatible with would be next to impossible anyway.

I don't think anyone has to be set in a certain socio-economic class. And for me a person's background isn't really that important.

And my definition of success is based on I what I want from life, not societal expectations. I want money, so that if I need things, I can buy them. If I need a car, because mine has broken down, I can buy it. Or if I need a new roof, or windows, or my plumbing fixed. I want enough money to travel the world, because that's important to me. All of those things have nothing to do with class, in my opinion.

I have no idea what other women want, but I'm sure I can't be the only one who feels this way.

I am a (European) woman and I second that statement. I basically want to be able to breathe when my car breaks down, or my mother is sick or my (still virtual) children need books and a college education.

To be honest I am seeing what happening to late teens to 20 somethings is too much of self centred behaviour in our current generation. The mid to late 90's and the millennial generations are they focused on superficial society such as commercialism, technology influences, fashion self esteem issues and so on. My female friends from uni are mostly born between 1995 and 1999. They are almost on par of millennials or generation of catastrophic.

I am not stereotyping here but I can see clear cut evidence of attitudes difference between these two generations. But again, this may be a bit generalised. I am not sure Australia have attitude issues towards to unique guy like myself. I feel bad when not being part of the dating game. I have a feeling it would be a same being in NZ, US, Canada, France, Russia and UK because of society influence.

But I feel ashamed knowing that I shouldn't compare myself to other people at my age. I just have different goals and its so hard for me to achieve something because the communication barriers from hearing loss and ASD.

Yes I agreed in past few posts here about women being more independent these days. My friends are like this. They are travel bugs, study hard and doesn't have connection with guys. BUT they had before they went to uni, despite the average age of 17. I'm sure they still enjoy company at the moment, but I see they are more independent than who go party all the time.

I am critical of myself what is wrong with me of why being a late bloomer when I don't have society anxiety and related issues. I don't seem have attracted someone at all. I am always socialise with common interests, passion and values. Its easy to get along in conversations of similar values. I rarely come across same kind of people as me especially with the deaf and autism groups. I rarely made friends with them because communication and comfort level is so difficult compared to all of my NT friends. My NT friends are based on common interests, similar passion and values.

So is a women going to be with me is coming from similar values, common interests and passion? I don't know how I get along with someone who is hardcore at music while I am not? I seen couples are connected even have different things, I don't know how that works.

But a scary thing is, being alone again in next five years until 30 without experiences and stuff that should match to the general population of the age cohort.

"To be honest I am seeing what happening to late teens to 20 somethings is too much of self centred behaviour in our current generation. The mid to late 90's and the millennial generations are they focused on superficial society such as commercialism, technology influences, fashion self esteem issues and so on. My female friends from uni are mostly born between 1995 and 1999. They are almost on par of millennials or generation of catastrophic.

I am not stereotyping here but I can see clear cut evidence of attitudes difference between these two generations. But again, this may be a bit generalised. I am not sure Australia have attitude issues towards to unique guy like myself. I feel bad when not being part of the dating game. I have a feeling it would be a same being in NZ, US, Canada, France, Russia and UK because of society influence."

I completely agree with you.

This generation is so narcissitic and self-centered what with the rise of social media and such.

"But I feel ashamed knowing that I shouldn't compare myself to other people at my age. I just have different goals and its so hard for me to achieve something because the communication barriers from hearing loss and ASD. "

I too have lower goals of what I want to achieve, at least for the time being.

I have ASD and it impairs my life so I don't expect myself to live the N.T. life already but to go through life at my own pace, which is what my supportive and kind family encourages.

Still, I know the feeling.

Asperger's isn't really a strong disability, it's kind of a 'so close but so far' feeling.

We're so close to being 'normal' and 'N.T.', but still JUST far away enough from them to feel so alien and different to them.

It is because our level of functioning is actually quite high.

Most people with High functioning autism, or asperger's, find it easer to live life than people with more severe mental or physical disabilities like schizophrenia, bipolar, learning difficulties, etc.

So we're so close to being N.T's, and most of us aspies do actually live N.T. lifestyles because many of us might not be eligible for disability pension so we have to learn to adjust to the world, but we're also so far off, and it feels like we spend our whole lives trying to be something we can't.

What Im saying is, is that most of us feel we actually can work hard and become 'normal' and N.T. but it's still a very long and hard path in life, one we might never achieve.

"I am critical of myself what is wrong with me of why being a late bloomer when I don't have society anxiety and related issues. I don't seem have attracted someone at all. I am always socialise with common interests, passion and values. Its easy to get along in conversations of similar values. I rarely come across same kind of people as me especially with the deaf and autism groups. I rarely made friends with them because communication and comfort level is so difficult compared to all of my NT friends. My NT friends are based on common interests, similar passion and values. "

Well I personally have moderate-to-severe social anxiety and agoraphobia, a fear of the outdoors and open spaces of people, but I'm still also very good at conversation and made some good friends in high school but didn't really connect with them all as much as I wanted to because straight after high school, even after I have tried reaching out to them, not many of them are interested at all in being in my life anymore.

Yigeren, LaMereLol: Fair enough...

I too want someone who shares my values in career and education. That makes sense...

What doesn't to me is, like Sly says, societal expectations that, to be considered a 'success', one has to have a job of a certain income, have studied at university, etc.

Screw it all, I guess.

I'm just continually upset - I confidently believe I'm not a 'failure' or 'loser' type, because my goals are my personal bests, not societie's expectations of me. But those that subscribe to societies expectations will, of course, have higher expectations they want me to live up to.]

Maybe thing'sll change, but I really am so hopelessly confused about what I want for my future at the moment.

I know, I know, people say 'you're young, it's normal' but explain to me how most young people start college straight after high school?

Blind idiots, I say. The most practical and intelligent idea is to work for a few years, save up money, move out and otherwise set your life up, and then go study for your $50,000 degree once you've actually made up your mind.

Too many young people blindly jump into the studying and fall into severe debt and such.

I think no college freshman actually truly knows what they want to do or be, they just feel too pressured because Australia has it's 'earning or learning' policy which dictates all people must be earning (work) or learning (study) immediately after graduation.

That and societal expectations, family expectations, peer pressure ("Yay! We all get to study together!" the group of good friends think, little do they know university isn't like that and most of them will barely have the time for each other anymore because they'll be too caught up in studies/not sharing classes), etc.

As a European man I don't. I'm better educated and I have a better job than my girlfriend, but she's just ambitious as I am. Her job is more stressful and more useful to society.

Sure I want to keep my car and buy things. That's why I work for these things, but it's not the most important factor and I certainly don't expect my girlfriend to pay for these things.


Is it possible that women you have approached similarly consider communication with you difficult?

I meant that I expect to take care of myself. I am not expecting a man to take care of myself; I have thought from a very young age I had to be able to fend for myself. That's why, interest for study apart, I have been collecting degrees like Pokemons ^^

You're coming off as a little bit self-righteous and patronizing here. NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING, can replicate the thrill of romance and/or sex in your teenage years. It's when you have that young, carefree kind of "love". When it's just you and her sharing the fun of exploring the world, and very little else matters. Think of the song "All Summer Long" by Kid Rock, or for a more contemporary example, "Renegades" by X Ambassadors. THAT'S the young romance/sex which nothing can replicate. When you get older, romance/sex gets too damn serious and intense, and just plain boring, if not outright frightening.

Well, I did find something that replicated young sex somewhat closely: escort service. At age 22. I just had to position myself on her bed strategically, to avoid seeing the dollars I left on her nightstand out of my side vision. It may not be "love", but I was smiling just the same. The only difference is that the thrill of romantic feelings was replaced by the thrill of dodging the police.