How the hell do guys like this get girls?

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Underconfident guys seem more genuine, kind and down to earth than arrogant guys though. Also, arrogance can be a sign that the guy is a sociopath.

http://www.wikihow.com/Spot-a-Sociopath

Thanks. Lately I've been feeling more alone but actually starting to become eager to try and start testing out my confidence and actually start to approach.

What I say is sometimes true though.

Back in high school I knew a guy...

social, extraverted, extremely confident (and a little egotistical, but that's another story), physically attractive, decent fitness.

He was one of the most popular guys in school, very well known for his general friendliness, charisma and talent.

He was a very talented musician and takes it very seriously. He produces albums and everything at his age with a semi-professional mastering engineer to get his albums to CD.

He did like to brag and show-off and arrogantly thought he was all-that regarding music, believing himself to be a semi-celebrity and always boasting about his gigs when sometimes 'gigs' just meant 'busking'.

But most of his gigs were genuine and he's well known here as a local musician.

Chronically single...

seriously...the one guy you thought wouldn't be and he is.

I'm not sure if he's ever had a relationship or not, heck he's probably not a virgin and had a one-night stand or two, but I know for a fact at least throughout all of senior year and this year so far (1.5 years) he has not had one girlfriend.

He's the kind of guy who, if he made a facebook post asking 'Hey, I'm single. Anyone want to be my girlfriend?' he'd get a million requests.

But, I guess he's suffering from 'celebrity syndrome' - he wants someone who likes him genuinely for who he is and accepts his flaws, and not just because he's popular and talented.

But the fact he's single is just sad..

For all the over-used advice on 'stop looking for love and focus on your own life. Focus on self-improving yourself as a person' clearly sometimes actually making an effort to date really is the answer, because I know for a fact there's plenty of people less attractive then he is and extremely rude and selfish who have probably had more happy and longer-lasting relationships than he has.

You definitely can't say he wants to be single either. All the time at school he'd bring it up or make jokes about it. His facebook, every 4th post or so is some meme or joke about being single.

I think he tried to act like it's no big thing but secretly inside it bothered him.

This thought has troubled my mind to. I used to have a friend who was good looking he dressed nice and was a smooth talker. Only problem is he is the biggest d bag in the world and would get with any girl. Before I left he quit adderall a drug he was precribed for ADD but he abused the crap out of it. He basically lived a life of drinking and supplement of that. Well he got fat. Pretty fat in fact 30 40 pounds more.weight and kinda gross because he grew a appetite and no longer had access to legal meth. Well end result he dates 4 gorgeous decent enough women and married one. The women he married before he married her he complained about her gut because she had a kid and I was like dude stfu shes gorgeous. Still married her though because the rest had loans to pay from school or some money issues and this one made like 120,000 a year annually. Even he had to hide his smoking habit and all. Bet he still smokes and she won't do a damn thing about it because for the most part he does what he wants. This is the kinda guy that will pray on your tipsy g/f if your passed out lets say your tired and you go for a nap after having a few drinks at his place ,and let me add this once again good looking girl friend is passed out in bed. Yeah that happen when I was there once. It made me think wtf is with this guy and why am I friends with him. My mom adored him and my dad did not care for him ,because he knew he was a dick. End result im alone divorced taken advantage of a recent relationship. Hes married and happy.

I had my best success when I didn't wake up in the morning and tell myself: "I HAVE to get a girlfriend!"

I used to wake up with those exact thoughts---and, as a result, women wouldn't touch me with a 10-foot pole.

Add that to the fact that I looked young for my age, was (and am) short, and did not dress fashionably, and you would see why I didn't attain success in ACTIVELY seeking women. Women thought of me as almost like their little brother!

I gained more success when I allowed myself to allow women to get to know me as a friend first. Then, I didn't seem desperate. Then, I seemed more sincere.

Your syntax is confusing, please tell me you're not saying he raped a passed out girl.

Unfortunately, there are guys out there who would take advantage of a "tipsy" girl in that way.

I'm fully aware of that, but I can't understand his sentence and I would appreciate a clarification.

I don't think there's a single answer but rather a range of them, as: some girls like jerks, some go through jerk-liking phases, some guys are faux-jerks (you think the guy is a jerk but he isn't), others aren't jerks (despite the fact they make your skin crawl), some girls are jerks and this find their soulmates in male jerks and some guys are ex-jerks (were and no longer are awful). Some girls have "broken pickers", eg Halle Berry. All of this holds true if you reverse the genders too. There's also an age/experience factor, in that it takes some a years to figure out hot, alone, is fun for maybe 3 months.

My understanding is that the people who marry for money (ugh) end up working really damn hard for it.

Arrogant guys seem to be the most angry and hateful. They only seem happy when they are bullying and manipulating others.

That's all good and well for you but there's little hope for those of us who don't go to uni. We miss out on an important stage of socialisation at that formative age. Without that vital introduction to young adult social mores and dating we languish in perpetual adolescence.

I think it's moreso you 'skip' learning the young-adult social skills learning stage and instead learn the 'late 20s/early 30s' social skills.

I think social skills can certainly be separated into different age branches.

There is younger adolescence (12-14), mid-adolescents tend to behave differently than young one's, and then older adolescent (16-18).

Then young adulthood/university behavior (18-24).

People subtly change in thoughts, behavior, and so do the social rules and social skills.

So learning social skills isn't necessarily a skill, but moreso keeping up in the race as things are always changing.

Social skills are not very general and learning 'general' social skills is a bad idea.

You've got to learn the specific social skillset within your appropriate age-range/culture/location/etc.

If I learnt right now how a 50 year old man with good social skills would think, act and behave, I'm certainly not going to fit-in with other youths my age.

There's got to be some level of conformity.

This doesn't specifically mean you have to force yourself to be something you are not, sometimes it means if you're 17 but usually behave quite mature, polite and respectful for your age in most situations, when at a party with other friends your own age it's best to let go as much as possible.

Even if you are mature (or immature) for your age, we are still human and still tend to consist of traits and thought patterns typical and limited to our age.

Even if a 50 year old aspie feels immature and childish and silly for their age, they're still more likely to think and feel like a 50 year old even if they believe their mental age to be 25.

I'm rambling here a bit but I think people know what I'm getting at.

Just as even if on these forums I might sometimes appear eloquent and intelligent (as I've been told), I still have that wild, rebellious and otherwise rowdy streak in me many other teens my age have. I am still a teenager, I think like one, act like one, feel like one.

"That's all good and well for you but there's little hope for those of us who don't go to uni. We miss out on an important stage of socialisation at that formative age. Without that vital introduction to young adult social mores and dating we languish in perpetual adolescence."

This is the most terrifying aspect of university for me and you've summed it up so perfectly in just a few sentences.

I don't know what I want to study yet, and even if because I'm Aboriginal my study is free, I still don't want to just 'jump-in' like others my age have and start attending university immediately after high school graduation, so I didn't.

And right now I observe and it looks and feels like most of my senior classmates are now at uni, studying, building new connections and friendships, a whole new world for them to explore, a whole new life.

Meanwhile I'm spending my time sitting around at home as there's nothing fun to do here and my friend's don't live nearby. I volunteer each week already and attend a social group for disabled Indigenous people, but they're all older adults far too out of my age range. It's still fun though to go for swim and barbeque session with them each week.

I'm taking a gap year and continue to try and justify it but become worried and concerned I'm just wasting time that could have been spent studying and developing those crucial young adult social/dating life while I'm still young.

I can't imagine how I'd feel if I put off uni for another year if I can't decide by Sept or so.

My plan was to spend these next few years having gap years, learning variety of things and otherwise just doing whatever the f*ck I want, possibly be moved out, have decent cash saved up, and then start uni at age 20, but I still feel like that's an awkward/late age to start.

Sorry for the incessant whining, but I definitely wouldn't want to end up in the position of being 28 because I was too hesitant to make a start.

In what country?

In both I and RetroGamer's native Australia, the amount of Millenials attending university studies has shown a sharp increase.

Here's the U.S. statistics:

Australia:



http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2010/02/ ... to-change/
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/mf/6227.0/

It's a statistical fact millenials are becoming one of the most educated generations and the one's more likely to enter high education, RG and I are millenials.

But, I guess, of course, if you consider all people aged 15-65, then, yeah, 2/3rds of those people didn't go to uni.

But I'm very sure Retrogamer, like me, would prefer to socialize and date/befriend people in a smaller age range than that. 25-35 for him, 18-25 for me, or something like that.

And, among both our respective age groups, we're in the minority.

Outrider you are wise beyond your years. You've analyzed and explained it far more objectively than I ever could.

Now that I think of it, even though I often chastise myself for being as immature as a teenager, when I speak to teenagers or even people in their early 20s, they seem very strange to me. Not only do they have a different culture but they have a different mindset. And the typical 20 year old is nowhere as good as the ideal 20 year old portrayed in movies, e.g. the one who can have two jobs while going to college and still has time to be Spiderman. So I guess I really do fit in with my age group. I may envy those younger than me but I shouldn't. Age has it's own set of privileges. Most of those 20 year olds don't even have their own apartment and most of them have less money than me. Some of them don't even have their own car.

A lack of objectivity has always been my weak point because I can't remove myself from the situation in order to objectively analyse it and so I confuse myself by trying to understand everything in terms of how I fit into it rather than looking at the big picture.I think this is one of the many areas in which Australian culture differs from American culture. I've spoken to Americans on web forums. As undergrads they say stuff like "I don't know what I want to do but it doesn't matter because it's only my undergrad degree and I don't have to choose a career until my postgrad studies". Even as undergrads, they don't have to declare a major until they're one or two years in. Until that they can just enrol in whichever subjects they fancy.

I read a career planning book (from America) where they interviewed successful people and they said "I don't use very much of what I learned in my undergrad years". I think this is a self-fulfilling prophesy and a sign of a different system. If they have it set up so all stuff pertaining to career is in the postgrad years then that's what they'll get.

I'm no scholar but I even heard that in America you need a degree before you can start studying law but in Australia you can do it straight out of high school. The prior degree can be in almost anything but English Literature is a popular choice for future law students. It's similar with other fields of study.

As for Australia, we have the rather unfortunate problem of needing to know which career we want the moment we set foot in a university or more likely, about two years before we finish high school. I remember my enviable cousin, who decided he wanted to be a mechanical engineer just as he was nearing the end of year 10. So he chose his subjects in years 11 and 12 accordingly. Another cousin, even more ambitious has recently decided she wants to be a veterinarian so her enviable mother has planned it so she'll do year 11 science subjects while she's in year 10 so once she reaches year 11 she'll be able to do even more year 11 subjects without any scheduling conflicts. This is because ATAR score is cumulative, unlike GPA, which is an average. So doing more year 11 and 12 subjects will give her a higher score but if entry was determined by GPA, then her average wouldn't go up with more subjects (the reasons American students are encouraged to drop subjects before it brings their average down.

Some of my friends have gone to TAFE or even uni and treated it like a desperate gambit. They were unemployable before and they hoped that there would be a small chance they'd be more employable after. Of course it didn't work. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy. Those who treat their education like a crapshoot get what they deserve.

I understand you're worried about your choice of study but I think you're better off worrying about it then rushing into it blindly. I'm sure after one or two years worrying about it, you'll reach a very thoroughly thought through decision.

Just so long as you don't study psychology. I know too many unemployed psychologists. As you know, the most important factor in the decision is which fields are hiring. If you study something related to mining, you could get one of those $250,000 per year jobs while you're young and not yet tied down by family.Once again you have the right idea. If you wait too many years it could spell disaster and if you rush in too soon it could spell disaster. You must find a balance between waiting long enough to reach the right decision and not waiting too long or you'll end up as an older twenty something.You certainly don't want to be in my position. Avoid it like the plague. An intelligent man can learn from his mistakes but a wise man will learn from someone else's mistakes so allow me to serve as an example of what not to do.

The system is different in Australia. Earning or learning.

Graduating high school with decent marks/ranking/GPA/whatever system your country uses is not enough - what you study in 11th and 12th grade can directly affect your options for university study.

Immediately after high school, the immense pressure is on for you to choose between working or studying.

Thanks RG for the wise words yourself, see you're not exactly immature either and know your stuff regarding this.

Funny enough I did want to do psychology at first, but realized my experiences with them have been negative and I don't want to have to be a part of 'the system', whatever you think that means.

Mining? Thing is I can't really do a hard labor job, and even if I were someone in the mining industry who deals with paperwork rather than labor, I'm just not interested in it and it's just not me.

I definitely can't stand the idea of being an office drone or anything like that, nor do I want to do hard labor around noisy machines and such.

At the moment I'm close to getting on-to DSP, but there are still some jobs I could do part-time/with low hours. Some retail, cleaning jobs, clerk, etc.

It's not that I can't work at all, it's that my range is far more limited at the moment and only for shorter hours. Basically a job that is not too fast-paced, quiet and peaceful, not to energetic/over-stimulating, aren't forced to interact with co-workers too much, consists mostly of simple, repetitive tasks that don't require too much hard thinking or hard physical work.

At the moment I volunteer at Lifeline stores...I could never volunteer at a city beach or other trendy, upbeat clothes/retail store. Too noisy, stimulating and youthful.

Otherwise, career-wise i have no aspirations for anything as whatever I wanted to do in senior year I have thus abandoned. Biologist, Drama/English Teacher and Engineer though are still deep on the back-burner for ideas.

The only thing I do right now is like I said retail volunteering, and working on my electronic music, but even that has become more of a hobby/just for fun thing these days as it's unrealistic to expect massive success and, unless I can find quieter bars and nightclubs, the amount of places I could DJ at is more limited due to stimulation. More often than not other electro producers I meet are N.T. extraverts who make sh*tty Melbourne Bounce (more mainstream genre than mine) and such, and even they can have trouble getting gigs.

You seem so intelligent it is a shame your system makes it difficult for you

In broad terms yes but it's all based on secondhand accounts. I don't understand the fine details of the system because I've never used it. I know just enough to know there's a whole lot more I don't know about it. I'd be lost if I actually had to navigate my way through that stuff and that's another thing that bothers me, not only that high school students have to pick their career but that even if they know for certain what they want their career to be, they still might not know how to navigate the system.

I don't know about your school but my school didn't explain it at all. If the purpose of high school is to prepare students for uni, my school failed in that task. As I've already said, they didn't explain ATAR and the put far too much emphasis on just getting SACE (known to you as QCE) which is mostly worthless though it can help get you into a lower level TAFE course. SACE doesn't even qualify you to sit the STAT test.

Not only do they not explain ATAR but they don't explain in detail which subjects you have to choose for a given career. With schools like that students have to hope their parents have been to university to explain it to them. Now you see why I get jealous of my parents? Their parents have been to university and come up with detailed plans for my cousins to obtain their chosen careers. My single mother dropped out part way through year 10 and is totally unemployable. This is what you call the poverty cycle. Uneducated parents have uneducated kids. In theory the schools can stop the poverty cycle in it's tracks. In practice the schools reinforce it. The most useless schools tend to be in the poorest neighborhoods (even if you only count public schools there's still a wide gap and unlike in America, here the private schools actually get more public funding per student than the public schools).

Now once you get into university the system is no less complicated. I know little about it. There's a great deal of freedom afforded to students within their major which can be both a blessing and a curse. I'm not certain whether or not it's useful to have a minor but my Aunt minored in anthropology (for some reason) (not the rich aunt, she hates things that don't make her money). The PhD is another mystery to me but I understand it's extremely open so you'd need to come up with your own plan. Unfortunately the original research skills required aren't taught very well in schools.

I believe our convoluted education system got that way for historical reasons. We had a system that made sense at the time a few centuries ago and then we kept on adding to it and many parts of it were made to serve purposes which no longer exist an yet these parts still exist. A large part of the system is vestigial.It's not really hard labour. They don't need a guy to wield a pick axe. It's all done by machine but they need engineers to run those machines. Nowadays mining or drilling for oil is more the domain of skilled technicians than brute strength.

One of the least physically demanding (yet highest paying) roles would be the geologist. After all, they value the guy who can find the minerals and tell them where to build the next mine or oil rig. They pay him very handsomely.

Before you say mining is about brute strength I used to know a young woman who worked on an oil rig as a technician and she was by no means physically strong. True she lived a hard life but it was worth it to get $250,000 per year (while not paying for her food and accommodation). By 30 she'll be a multimillionaire.Think carefully about that, not because I think it's immoral but because I think you may regret it later. I got on the DSP in my early 20s. I enjoyed it for a few years but by my mid 20s the DSP and my lack of a career where cause for a great deal of depression.

Now I know some dumbasses who live on the DSP for decades and never regret it but the fact is, you're very smart. You're smart enough to have a lot of potential and you're smart enough to know that you have a lot of potential and as you get older you'd be smart enough to know that you're squandering a lot of potential.

I'm not trying to be mean or judgemental, I'm just trying to help you have a happier life with less regret. I hear nowadays they have a degree in robotics. It sounds very interesting and you'll only have to deal with smaller machines.

Robotic factories won't be the end of work even if they're fully automated. In fact fully automating a factory is a task that requires so many man-hours of work it nearly uses as many man-hours as it saves. Even once it's built, testing every machine in every combination against very precise and complex specifications is a massive and time consuming undertaking (I should know, I do the same thing with software).

Now the good thing about this is that it means a robotic factory will not cause unemployment. In fact it will need to hire hundreds of staff to keep the robots running. The bad news it that a robotic factory will cause unemployment for people without a degree in robotics.

Factory work could become the new upper-middle class profession.When I was your age I used to hate teenagers with all their popular music and confusing slang lol. Nowadays I just envy them for all their ambition and potential, sigh.

If you want a really quiet job maybe you could be an astronomer.