Is it even possible for ASD + NT relationships to work?
08 Jul 2016, 2:08 pm
Alliekit wrote:
saxgeek wrote:
I know there are plenty of ASD + NT relationships out there, but would an ASD + ASD relationship be any better, since both partners understand what issues the other faces? The few girls I've dated in my life have all been NT, and I've always wondered what it would be like to be with a girl who also has Asperger's Syndrome like me. Would she understand and accept my social problems better than any NT could?
I see yur point but I do wonder if sometimes it could be worse. Like if your both having a meltdown at the same time you might take it put on each other. It could double the problems ( although I'm sure this isn't always the case)
I actually agree with you. I'm leery about dating someone who is aspies (though other apectrum disorders are fine) because sometimes we can... lack sensitivity to others emotions and considering how emotional I am I could see this being a problem, because I need to be in a relationship with someone who can tell when something is wrong.
I do dislike how indirect many NT people are though, and it can be frustrating when they don't get what the problem is because they don't experience the same issues. Trying to explain sensory overload, especially from something as seemingly harmless as the wrong fabric, to someone who doesn't experience it is hard, because it probably seems ridiculous and like a not big deal to them.
_________________
Herein You Will Find Various And Numerous And Innumerable Hexes, Curses, Words In The Old Tongue To Cleave A’Twain Friend, Foe, Family Alike. If You So Choose. Money Hates Me, God Hates Me, My Wife Hates Me, My Own Hands Hate Me. But Thats All Beside The Point. The Point Is That My Time Here On Earth Runs Short. Im Not Dying But You All Are. Im A Glass Of Wine. Nothing Beats A Glass Of Wine. When The Kids Arent Home And Your A Mother Theres A Glass Of Wine There. A Glass Coffee Table And I’m A Glass Of Wine. Stressful Day When The Kids And you're Husband Then Glass Of Wine. Dark Chocolate Indulge. Petty Indulgences. When you're A Glass Of Wine And Let The Body’s Hit The Floor. When Your Glass Of Wine Is Running Short And You Say Heck What Of It. Why Dont I Have Another. Bartender I Am A Glass Of Wine. Bottoms Up And The Devil Laughs. The Bartender Remembers When It Happened. They All Remember When It Happened And If They Knew That You Dont Remember Then They Would Know That Something Is Awry Here Or So They Would Think. Something Would Be Amiss Or Smells Fishy. So Theyre All Relating There Stories Of Where They Were When That Event Happened And The Eyes Move Clockwise About The Room Where We All Share Our Glass Of Wine And Suddenly The Clock Ticks To You And They Ask The Fatal Question That Destroys Your Reputation, The Question You Could Never Answer, The Dead Giveaway: Where Were You When The Bodies Hit The Floor
08 Jul 2016, 2:36 pm
lidsmichelle wrote:
Alliekit wrote:
saxgeek wrote:
I know there are plenty of ASD + NT relationships out there, but would an ASD + ASD relationship be any better, since both partners understand what issues the other faces? The few girls I've dated in my life have all been NT, and I've always wondered what it would be like to be with a girl who also has Asperger's Syndrome like me. Would she understand and accept my social problems better than any NT could?
I see yur point but I do wonder if sometimes it could be worse. Like if your both having a meltdown at the same time you might take it put on each other. It could double the problems ( although I'm sure this isn't always the case)
I actually agree with you. I'm leery about dating someone who is aspies (though other apectrum disorders are fine) because sometimes we can... lack sensitivity to others emotions and considering how emotional I am I could see this being a problem, because I need to be in a relationship with someone who can tell when something is wrong.
I do dislike how indirect many NT people are though, and it can be frustrating when they don't get what the problem is because they don't experience the same issues. Trying to explain sensory overload, especially from something as seemingly harmless as the wrong fabric, to someone who doesn't experience it is hard, because it probably seems ridiculous and like a not big deal to them.
I'm lucky in that my boyfriend is a blunt and direct NT. Sometimes if your blunt with NTs they are blunt with you. My best friend is NT and probably as blunt as I am hahaha
Sweetleaf
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08 Jul 2016, 3:21 pm
wilburforce wrote:
avlien wrote:
During the course of my current relationship, I realized that I have ASD. It was a bit of an "ah-ha!" moment, but ultimately it only labels a problem with no solution. I am a "fix-it" kind of person, so not being able to is very frustrating. The big problem happens in my relationships, when tensions are high & someone gets hurtful. For example: my fiancee had a bad day, and immediately starts criticizing me even though I have also been working all day. I know this is one of those things that humans (see:NTs) do to one another, but I just can't take any of it. It sends me (almost immediately) into a huge meltdown. I just can't take being attacked by a person who is supposed to be on the same team (if not a spouse, then who?).
I guess this raises the bigger question of "How do we deal with idiosyncrasies of the NT psyche?" such as passive-aggressive behaviour, self-sabotage, etc. I know I am about to come off as "Spock to the n-th" but all of these illogical behavior patterns are maddening. If I grew up in India, I could write a book & all the NTs would buy it. They do so many things that serve no purpose whatsoever, simply because they either assume "that's what you do" or they are parroting the (interpreted) reactions of their parents to (seemingly) similar situations. I guess maybe I need to polish up on Freudian psychology...
I guess this raises the bigger question of "How do we deal with idiosyncrasies of the NT psyche?" such as passive-aggressive behaviour, self-sabotage, etc. I know I am about to come off as "Spock to the n-th" but all of these illogical behavior patterns are maddening. If I grew up in India, I could write a book & all the NTs would buy it. They do so many things that serve no purpose whatsoever, simply because they either assume "that's what you do" or they are parroting the (interpreted) reactions of their parents to (seemingly) similar situations. I guess maybe I need to polish up on Freudian psychology...
Equating NTs with humans (and thereby identifying the neurodiverse as not human or less human) is not cool. For a few reasons.
whats wrong with equating NTs with humans, considering they are in fact humans? Also how on earth does acknowledging that fact imply that neuroatypical individuals aren't humans? Pretty sure people of all neurotypes are human.
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Sweetleaf
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08 Jul 2016, 3:31 pm
I believe my boyfriend is neurotypical...though maybe a few asd tendencies, like he is super into painting miniatures of orcs for miniature gaming. He is much more into the lore and imagery and having them to enjoy looking at or show to other people than actually attempting to get people together to play the game. But it seems kind of like an obsession similar to the sort us ASD people get not simply a hobby. But he doesn't really have any of the ASD related struggles.
Is working out pretty well so yes I think it can work, but it really depends on the individuals in the relationship.
_________________
We won't go back.
08 Jul 2016, 3:35 pm
I've been in a good AS-NT relationship for 30 years. Does that meet your criteria for working?
I don't believe that both being HFA gives a relationship significantly more chance for success then a HFA-NT one. I see balancing strengths and weaknesses in both type pairings. I think the strength of the personal bond is more the deciding factor.
08 Jul 2016, 5:46 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
avlien wrote:
During the course of my current relationship, I realized that I have ASD. It was a bit of an "ah-ha!" moment, but ultimately it only labels a problem with no solution. I am a "fix-it" kind of person, so not being able to is very frustrating. The big problem happens in my relationships, when tensions are high & someone gets hurtful. For example: my fiancee had a bad day, and immediately starts criticizing me even though I have also been working all day. I know this is one of those things that humans (see:NTs) do to one another, but I just can't take any of it. It sends me (almost immediately) into a huge meltdown. I just can't take being attacked by a person who is supposed to be on the same team (if not a spouse, then who?).
I guess this raises the bigger question of "How do we deal with idiosyncrasies of the NT psyche?" such as passive-aggressive behaviour, self-sabotage, etc. I know I am about to come off as "Spock to the n-th" but all of these illogical behavior patterns are maddening. If I grew up in India, I could write a book & all the NTs would buy it. They do so many things that serve no purpose whatsoever, simply because they either assume "that's what you do" or they are parroting the (interpreted) reactions of their parents to (seemingly) similar situations. I guess maybe I need to polish up on Freudian psychology...
I guess this raises the bigger question of "How do we deal with idiosyncrasies of the NT psyche?" such as passive-aggressive behaviour, self-sabotage, etc. I know I am about to come off as "Spock to the n-th" but all of these illogical behavior patterns are maddening. If I grew up in India, I could write a book & all the NTs would buy it. They do so many things that serve no purpose whatsoever, simply because they either assume "that's what you do" or they are parroting the (interpreted) reactions of their parents to (seemingly) similar situations. I guess maybe I need to polish up on Freudian psychology...
Equating NTs with humans (and thereby identifying the neurodiverse as not human or less human) is not cool. For a few reasons.
whats wrong with equating NTs with humans, considering they are in fact humans? Also how on earth does acknowledging that fact imply that neuroatypical individuals aren't humans? Pretty sure people of all neurotypes are human.
Because the implication is that if you specify that by referring to humans you are referring to NTs, that NTs are in fact the "standard" human, and someone who is not classified as NT is not classified as a standard human. If you don't understand why the language usage in this way makes an implication then I don't know how to explain to you how implication through language usage works. Making a point of specifying that by referring to humans one means NTs implies that NTs are more genuinely human than those not classified as NT. This is just how language works. Can someone else help explain this more clearly?
_________________
"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War
(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)
08 Jul 2016, 5:51 pm
All neurotypes within the homo sapiens sapiens species are, obviously, definitely classified under the Homo sapiens sapiens species.
Therefore, all neurotypes are human.
We might be detached from what is "normal" for humanity. Then again, many other people who would classified as "neurotypical" are similarly detached.
It doesn't make them less human.
08 Jul 2016, 6:04 pm
I believe it is possible . . . . However both people need to be prepared to compromise a little. Neurotypical to not make so many demands for constant shows of affections and romantic language, and neurodiverse to understand that they need to find a way to demonstrate they care and be willing to communicate a little more than they would normally choose to. Both people to be willing to keep keep keep trying to understand each other and battle through the barriers.
This makes it sound like a constant battle, and certainly for me the neurotypical side, it is not. It is just different and I have to readjust my thinking and that takes time. However I am more than willing to put the time and effort in because the rewards are great.
08 Jul 2016, 6:54 pm
Anngables wrote:
I believe it is possible . . . . However both people need to be prepared to compromise a little. Neurotypical to not make so many demands for constant shows of affections and romantic language, and neurodiverse to understand that they need to find a way to demonstrate they care and be willing to communicate a little more than they would normally choose to. Both people to be willing to keep keep keep trying to understand each other and battle through the barriers.
This makes it sound like a constant battle, and certainly for me the neurotypical side, it is not. It is just different and I have to readjust my thinking and that takes time. However I am more than willing to put the time and effort in because the rewards are great.
This makes it sound like a constant battle, and certainly for me the neurotypical side, it is not. It is just different and I have to readjust my thinking and that takes time. However I am more than willing to put the time and effort in because the rewards are great.
You are right relationships are all about compromise
Sweetleaf
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Age: 34
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08 Jul 2016, 8:02 pm
wilburforce wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
avlien wrote:
During the course of my current relationship, I realized that I have ASD. It was a bit of an "ah-ha!" moment, but ultimately it only labels a problem with no solution. I am a "fix-it" kind of person, so not being able to is very frustrating. The big problem happens in my relationships, when tensions are high & someone gets hurtful. For example: my fiancee had a bad day, and immediately starts criticizing me even though I have also been working all day. I know this is one of those things that humans (see:NTs) do to one another, but I just can't take any of it. It sends me (almost immediately) into a huge meltdown. I just can't take being attacked by a person who is supposed to be on the same team (if not a spouse, then who?).
I guess this raises the bigger question of "How do we deal with idiosyncrasies of the NT psyche?" such as passive-aggressive behaviour, self-sabotage, etc. I know I am about to come off as "Spock to the n-th" but all of these illogical behavior patterns are maddening. If I grew up in India, I could write a book & all the NTs would buy it. They do so many things that serve no purpose whatsoever, simply because they either assume "that's what you do" or they are parroting the (interpreted) reactions of their parents to (seemingly) similar situations. I guess maybe I need to polish up on Freudian psychology...
I guess this raises the bigger question of "How do we deal with idiosyncrasies of the NT psyche?" such as passive-aggressive behaviour, self-sabotage, etc. I know I am about to come off as "Spock to the n-th" but all of these illogical behavior patterns are maddening. If I grew up in India, I could write a book & all the NTs would buy it. They do so many things that serve no purpose whatsoever, simply because they either assume "that's what you do" or they are parroting the (interpreted) reactions of their parents to (seemingly) similar situations. I guess maybe I need to polish up on Freudian psychology...
Equating NTs with humans (and thereby identifying the neurodiverse as not human or less human) is not cool. For a few reasons.
whats wrong with equating NTs with humans, considering they are in fact humans? Also how on earth does acknowledging that fact imply that neuroatypical individuals aren't humans? Pretty sure people of all neurotypes are human.
Because the implication is that if you specify that by referring to humans you are referring to NTs, that NTs are in fact the "standard" human, and someone who is not classified as NT is not classified as a standard human. If you don't understand why the language usage in this way makes an implication then I don't know how to explain to you how implication through language usage works. Making a point of specifying that by referring to humans one means NTs implies that NTs are more genuinely human than those not classified as NT. This is just how language works. Can someone else help explain this more clearly?
And why does one have to be a 'standard' human to be considered a human? That makes no sense...Also with what you suggest that then would make it so autistics and other neuroatypical people are considered humans and NTs aren't? How is that any better than a neurotypicals viewing neuroatypicals as sub-human? I guess I also don't see where anyone specified that by humans they mean neurotypicals only.
_________________
We won't go back.
08 Jul 2016, 9:09 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
And why does one have to be a 'standard' human to be considered a human? That makes no sense...Also with what you suggest that then would make it so autistics and other neuroatypical people are considered humans and NTs aren't? How is that any better than a neurotypicals viewing neuroatypicals as sub-human? I guess I also don't see where anyone specified that by humans they mean neurotypicals only.
I don't really understand what you are asking and I have no idea how to answer without just restating what I've already stated. I'm not sure I can help you understand by these questions. Is there anyone else who can help explain what an implication is and how it works?
_________________
"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War
(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)
08 Jul 2016, 9:24 pm
wilburforce wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
avlien wrote:
During the course of my current relationship, I realized that I have ASD. It was a bit of an "ah-ha!" moment, but ultimately it only labels a problem with no solution. I am a "fix-it" kind of person, so not being able to is very frustrating. The big problem happens in my relationships, when tensions are high & someone gets hurtful. For example: my fiancee had a bad day, and immediately starts criticizing me even though I have also been working all day. I know this is one of those things that humans (see:NTs) do to one another, but I just can't take any of it. It sends me (almost immediately) into a huge meltdown. I just can't take being attacked by a person who is supposed to be on the same team (if not a spouse, then who?).
I guess this raises the bigger question of "How do we deal with idiosyncrasies of the NT psyche?" such as passive-aggressive behaviour, self-sabotage, etc. I know I am about to come off as "Spock to the n-th" but all of these illogical behavior patterns are maddening. If I grew up in India, I could write a book & all the NTs would buy it. They do so many things that serve no purpose whatsoever, simply because they either assume "that's what you do" or they are parroting the (interpreted) reactions of their parents to (seemingly) similar situations. I guess maybe I need to polish up on Freudian psychology...
I guess this raises the bigger question of "How do we deal with idiosyncrasies of the NT psyche?" such as passive-aggressive behaviour, self-sabotage, etc. I know I am about to come off as "Spock to the n-th" but all of these illogical behavior patterns are maddening. If I grew up in India, I could write a book & all the NTs would buy it. They do so many things that serve no purpose whatsoever, simply because they either assume "that's what you do" or they are parroting the (interpreted) reactions of their parents to (seemingly) similar situations. I guess maybe I need to polish up on Freudian psychology...
Equating NTs with humans (and thereby identifying the neurodiverse as not human or less human) is not cool. For a few reasons.
whats wrong with equating NTs with humans, considering they are in fact humans? Also how on earth does acknowledging that fact imply that neuroatypical individuals aren't humans? Pretty sure people of all neurotypes are human.
Because the implication is that if you specify that by referring to humans you are referring to NTs, that NTs are in fact the "standard" human, and someone who is not classified as NT is not classified as a standard human. If you don't understand why the language usage in this way makes an implication then I don't know how to explain to you how implication through language usage works. Making a point of specifying that by referring to humans one means NTs implies that NTs are more genuinely human than those not classified as NT. This is just how language works. Can someone else help explain this more clearly?
I talk about NTs that way too, so I guess it seems normal to me. I often say "one of us needs to be human" when I refer to my ideal relationship because on my end I'm"not human." Idk.
I think it's about context. It's better to keep it within the community and call out NTs if they try to use the same terminology. I see this kind of thing within a lot of marginalized communities and I think it's fine like:
- mentally ill people calling themselves crazy
--Lgb people calling something stupid "gay" and reclaiming queer
- racial minorities using the slurs that are used against them
- people like myself who have triggers but make jokes about something triggering them
I'm saying it's an intercommuity thing. Like queer and crazy you have the right to say you don't like the label for yourself and don't want to ever use it or be called it, but you can't dictate that for other people.
_________________
Herein You Will Find Various And Numerous And Innumerable Hexes, Curses, Words In The Old Tongue To Cleave A’Twain Friend, Foe, Family Alike. If You So Choose. Money Hates Me, God Hates Me, My Wife Hates Me, My Own Hands Hate Me. But Thats All Beside The Point. The Point Is That My Time Here On Earth Runs Short. Im Not Dying But You All Are. Im A Glass Of Wine. Nothing Beats A Glass Of Wine. When The Kids Arent Home And Your A Mother Theres A Glass Of Wine There. A Glass Coffee Table And I’m A Glass Of Wine. Stressful Day When The Kids And you're Husband Then Glass Of Wine. Dark Chocolate Indulge. Petty Indulgences. When you're A Glass Of Wine And Let The Body’s Hit The Floor. When Your Glass Of Wine Is Running Short And You Say Heck What Of It. Why Dont I Have Another. Bartender I Am A Glass Of Wine. Bottoms Up And The Devil Laughs. The Bartender Remembers When It Happened. They All Remember When It Happened And If They Knew That You Dont Remember Then They Would Know That Something Is Awry Here Or So They Would Think. Something Would Be Amiss Or Smells Fishy. So Theyre All Relating There Stories Of Where They Were When That Event Happened And The Eyes Move Clockwise About The Room Where We All Share Our Glass Of Wine And Suddenly The Clock Ticks To You And They Ask The Fatal Question That Destroys Your Reputation, The Question You Could Never Answer, The Dead Giveaway: Where Were You When The Bodies Hit The Floor
08 Jul 2016, 9:49 pm
lidsmichelle wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
avlien wrote:
During the course of my current relationship, I realized that I have ASD. It was a bit of an "ah-ha!" moment, but ultimately it only labels a problem with no solution. I am a "fix-it" kind of person, so not being able to is very frustrating. The big problem happens in my relationships, when tensions are high & someone gets hurtful. For example: my fiancee had a bad day, and immediately starts criticizing me even though I have also been working all day. I know this is one of those things that humans (see:NTs) do to one another, but I just can't take any of it. It sends me (almost immediately) into a huge meltdown. I just can't take being attacked by a person who is supposed to be on the same team (if not a spouse, then who?).
I guess this raises the bigger question of "How do we deal with idiosyncrasies of the NT psyche?" such as passive-aggressive behaviour, self-sabotage, etc. I know I am about to come off as "Spock to the n-th" but all of these illogical behavior patterns are maddening. If I grew up in India, I could write a book & all the NTs would buy it. They do so many things that serve no purpose whatsoever, simply because they either assume "that's what you do" or they are parroting the (interpreted) reactions of their parents to (seemingly) similar situations. I guess maybe I need to polish up on Freudian psychology...
I guess this raises the bigger question of "How do we deal with idiosyncrasies of the NT psyche?" such as passive-aggressive behaviour, self-sabotage, etc. I know I am about to come off as "Spock to the n-th" but all of these illogical behavior patterns are maddening. If I grew up in India, I could write a book & all the NTs would buy it. They do so many things that serve no purpose whatsoever, simply because they either assume "that's what you do" or they are parroting the (interpreted) reactions of their parents to (seemingly) similar situations. I guess maybe I need to polish up on Freudian psychology...
Equating NTs with humans (and thereby identifying the neurodiverse as not human or less human) is not cool. For a few reasons.
whats wrong with equating NTs with humans, considering they are in fact humans? Also how on earth does acknowledging that fact imply that neuroatypical individuals aren't humans? Pretty sure people of all neurotypes are human.
Because the implication is that if you specify that by referring to humans you are referring to NTs, that NTs are in fact the "standard" human, and someone who is not classified as NT is not classified as a standard human. If you don't understand why the language usage in this way makes an implication then I don't know how to explain to you how implication through language usage works. Making a point of specifying that by referring to humans one means NTs implies that NTs are more genuinely human than those not classified as NT. This is just how language works. Can someone else help explain this more clearly?
I talk about NTs that way too, so I guess it seems normal to me. I often say "one of us needs to be human" when I refer to my ideal relationship because on my end I'm"not human." Idk.
I think it's about context. It's better to keep it within the community and call out NTs if they try to use the same terminology. I see this kind of thing within a lot of marginalized communities and I think it's fine like:
- mentally ill people calling themselves crazy
--Lgb people calling something stupid "gay" and reclaiming queer
- racial minorities using the slurs that are used against them
- people like myself who have triggers but make jokes about something triggering them
I'm saying it's an intercommuity thing. Like queer and crazy you have the right to say you don't like the label for yourself and don't want to ever use it or be called it, but you can't dictate that for other people.
Thank you for helping to clarify, and I get where you're coming from and agree (I have mental health issues and call myself "crazy" half-jokingly all the time) to some extent. It's just that there is a lot of "us vs. them" sort of talk around here in regards to NTs, I don't want to add to that. And I am a bit sensitive to the idea that autistics are less than human because I know it actually causes some ignorant people to perceive me as less human when they learn I am autistic (just got called a "f*****g autistic ret*d" the other day by an actual adult person and not a school-age child, for example) and after reading this thread: https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=319420 it's something that has been on my mind a lot lately and it bothers me.
Perhaps that has made me a bit oversensitive, but I still think the implication that we are less human, even jokingly, can be dangerous because it can cause people to deny us basic human rights and can make seeking treatment dangerous if clinicians are viewing us as less than human and treating us that way. When people view you as less human they can see it as permission to treat you as less than human, permission to harm you with impunity.
_________________
"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War
(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)
08 Jul 2016, 11:15 pm
The problem is that many people already think that. It's faulty logic to say that us saying that will make them see us as less human. People pick and choose what they hear. Yeah, they may use us saying it as a justification but that means they listened only to that. Many of them are happy to ignore what we say about ourselves (and even disagree) when it's positive. It's also messed up to put the burden on a marginalized group to speak about themselves in a way that placates the non marginalized people. I shouldn't have to change how i refer to myself just because some a**hole will use it to justify a bigoted opinion they already held.
I don't think us calling ourselves that really effects anything.
The divide is inevitable. When a group of people feels pressured to be something they aren't in order to be treated with respect (like us autism spectrum people are), it frustrates us. We are not bad or wrong for something that is out of our control (I mean having a developmental disorder). Every day I have to put extra, incredibly exhausting effort out to act NT, to make eye contact and remember not to info dump and watch cues that I don't naturally catch onto. I have to force myself to make "natural" facial expressions when my natural affectation is flat. We're angry because of ableism, and we feel alienated a lot of the time. The fact that I have to do things that aren't natural for me and make me uncomfortable to be treated with respect is not fair, and that's why the divide happens. You resent the people you're forced to emulate to gain acceptance.
_________________
Herein You Will Find Various And Numerous And Innumerable Hexes, Curses, Words In The Old Tongue To Cleave A’Twain Friend, Foe, Family Alike. If You So Choose. Money Hates Me, God Hates Me, My Wife Hates Me, My Own Hands Hate Me. But Thats All Beside The Point. The Point Is That My Time Here On Earth Runs Short. Im Not Dying But You All Are. Im A Glass Of Wine. Nothing Beats A Glass Of Wine. When The Kids Arent Home And Your A Mother Theres A Glass Of Wine There. A Glass Coffee Table And I’m A Glass Of Wine. Stressful Day When The Kids And you're Husband Then Glass Of Wine. Dark Chocolate Indulge. Petty Indulgences. When you're A Glass Of Wine And Let The Body’s Hit The Floor. When Your Glass Of Wine Is Running Short And You Say Heck What Of It. Why Dont I Have Another. Bartender I Am A Glass Of Wine. Bottoms Up And The Devil Laughs. The Bartender Remembers When It Happened. They All Remember When It Happened And If They Knew That You Dont Remember Then They Would Know That Something Is Awry Here Or So They Would Think. Something Would Be Amiss Or Smells Fishy. So Theyre All Relating There Stories Of Where They Were When That Event Happened And The Eyes Move Clockwise About The Room Where We All Share Our Glass Of Wine And Suddenly The Clock Ticks To You And They Ask The Fatal Question That Destroys Your Reputation, The Question You Could Never Answer, The Dead Giveaway: Where Were You When The Bodies Hit The Floor
09 Jul 2016, 12:41 am
wilburforce wrote:
lidsmichelle wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
avlien wrote:
During the course of my current relationship, I realized that I have ASD. It was a bit of an "ah-ha!" moment, but ultimately it only labels a problem with no solution. I am a "fix-it" kind of person, so not being able to is very frustrating. The big problem happens in my relationships, when tensions are high & someone gets hurtful. For example: my fiancee had a bad day, and immediately starts criticizing me even though I have also been working all day. I know this is one of those things that humans (see:NTs) do to one another, but I just can't take any of it. It sends me (almost immediately) into a huge meltdown. I just can't take being attacked by a person who is supposed to be on the same team (if not a spouse, then who?).
I guess this raises the bigger question of "How do we deal with idiosyncrasies of the NT psyche?" such as passive-aggressive behaviour, self-sabotage, etc. I know I am about to come off as "Spock to the n-th" but all of these illogical behavior patterns are maddening. If I grew up in India, I could write a book & all the NTs would buy it. They do so many things that serve no purpose whatsoever, simply because they either assume "that's what you do" or they are parroting the (interpreted) reactions of their parents to (seemingly) similar situations. I guess maybe I need to polish up on Freudian psychology...
I guess this raises the bigger question of "How do we deal with idiosyncrasies of the NT psyche?" such as passive-aggressive behaviour, self-sabotage, etc. I know I am about to come off as "Spock to the n-th" but all of these illogical behavior patterns are maddening. If I grew up in India, I could write a book & all the NTs would buy it. They do so many things that serve no purpose whatsoever, simply because they either assume "that's what you do" or they are parroting the (interpreted) reactions of their parents to (seemingly) similar situations. I guess maybe I need to polish up on Freudian psychology...
Equating NTs with humans (and thereby identifying the neurodiverse as not human or less human) is not cool. For a few reasons.
whats wrong with equating NTs with humans, considering they are in fact humans? Also how on earth does acknowledging that fact imply that neuroatypical individuals aren't humans? Pretty sure people of all neurotypes are human.
Because the implication is that if you specify that by referring to humans you are referring to NTs, that NTs are in fact the "standard" human, and someone who is not classified as NT is not classified as a standard human. If you don't understand why the language usage in this way makes an implication then I don't know how to explain to you how implication through language usage works. Making a point of specifying that by referring to humans one means NTs implies that NTs are more genuinely human than those not classified as NT. This is just how language works. Can someone else help explain this more clearly?
I talk about NTs that way too, so I guess it seems normal to me. I often say "one of us needs to be human" when I refer to my ideal relationship because on my end I'm"not human." Idk.
I think it's about context. It's better to keep it within the community and call out NTs if they try to use the same terminology. I see this kind of thing within a lot of marginalized communities and I think it's fine like:
- mentally ill people calling themselves crazy
--Lgb people calling something stupid "gay" and reclaiming queer
- racial minorities using the slurs that are used against them
- people like myself who have triggers but make jokes about something triggering them
I'm saying it's an intercommuity thing. Like queer and crazy you have the right to say you don't like the label for yourself and don't want to ever use it or be called it, but you can't dictate that for other people.
Thank you for helping to clarify, and I get where you're coming from and agree (I have mental health issues and call myself "crazy" half-jokingly all the time) to some extent. It's just that there is a lot of "us vs. them" sort of talk around here in regards to NTs, I don't want to add to that. And I am a bit sensitive to the idea that autistics are less than human because I know it actually causes some ignorant people to perceive me as less human when they learn I am autistic (just got called a "f*****g autistic ret*d" the other day by an actual adult person and not a school-age child, for example) and after reading this thread: https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=319420 it's something that has been on my mind a lot lately and it bothers me.
Perhaps that has made me a bit oversensitive, but I still think the implication that we are less human, even jokingly, can be dangerous because it can cause people to deny us basic human rights and can make seeking treatment dangerous if clinicians are viewing us as less than human and treating us that way. When people view you as less human they can see it as permission to treat you as less than human, permission to harm you with impunity.
You are not alone, and I am
one angry person lately to see how ignorant, damaging, and hurtful people can be with their words and actions! I don't think you are being overly sensitive at all, unless I am being thus, also. We are all unique, and we all have our strengths and weaknesses, but we all have beauty in us to bring to the table, and until we can see that, and recognize it, learn how to identify with each other, then we aren't going to undersand anything! I am sorry and angry for how people treat you guys, and others who have diversities. Being a disabled person, I get it in some ways. I am trying to hard to identify with my boyfriend, so I can understand him more, so he doesn't have to be that square peg trying to fit in a round hole. I'm tired of that NT way of thinking. Why can't we try to fit in to their world for once, instead of always forcing them into ours? Sorry for the rant, it's been a long upsetting day! Oh, and no one is any less human than another person! That's a sad and disgusting way of thinking!
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,887
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
09 Jul 2016, 5:46 pm
wilburforce wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
And why does one have to be a 'standard' human to be considered a human? That makes no sense...Also with what you suggest that then would make it so autistics and other neuroatypical people are considered humans and NTs aren't? How is that any better than a neurotypicals viewing neuroatypicals as sub-human? I guess I also don't see where anyone specified that by humans they mean neurotypicals only.
I don't really understand what you are asking and I have no idea how to answer without just restating what I've already stated. I'm not sure I can help you understand by these questions. Is there anyone else who can help explain what an implication is and how it works?
First where did anyone here specify that by humans they mean specifically neurotypicals only? And what do you suggest...that we regard NTs as subhuman? I know what an implication is, I'm not an idiot I just don't see where any implication that autistics and neuroatypicals are lesser than humans was made.
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