West vs East : Relationship and family values.

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Come to think of it....Amsterdam has a flea market which is somewhat chaotic--but not nearly as chaotic as the one in Rome. The one in Rome is a riot!

I didn't go into any of the indoor fruit/vegetable markets, though. I wonder what they are like.

I know, in English markets, that there's lots of loud hawking (selling). In the old days, people even made up clever rhymes to sell things. It can get pretty loud sometimes. Not the same as in Rome, though.

There is a film series known as the "Up" series, which was first produced in the UK as the 40-minute film known as "Seven-Up." Approximately 15 seven-year-olds were interviewed about various weighty things--like God and the destiny of their nation. Subsequently, every seven years, these same people are interviewed again. By and large, most of the original participants are still participating in the series, which is now between 56-Up and 63-Up.

This format is also being used in quite a few other places. I have seen the one from Russia--they're between 28-Up and 35-Up. There is also one from Japan.

I would imagine that watching this series would highlight, well, with great objectivity, the difference between the "Eastern" and the "Western" outlook on things.

Personal question that you may choose not to answer; how things are developing physically with the Chinese girl?
And I don't mean sex, I mean milder things.

Does she....make you somehow too embarrassed to even hint about it?

Give me a month to three months.

If I wasn't married, I swear I would ask this Chinese woman out who works at a nearby restaurant. I think she's either the owner or is in the owner's family.

She sings really nicely. She likes men to kiss her hand.

By men her age or youth?

In some Eastern cultures, kissing hand of the old is a gesture of respect, and not a romanticized chivalry act.

A romanticized chivalry act LOL.

She's a raconteur, yet she's without pretension.

So..I don't want you to wait so..here I am. I tried to focus on summing up why SouthKorea's high schoolers sleep so little.

S.Korea is well-known for its education. 85% of South Korean go to college and 65% have bachelor's degrees, its literacy rate is 99.9%. So you can tell most adults(aged 22-45) graduated from at least college or further, which in turn leads that average bachelor's degrees often don't secure any better jobs or careers, if they don't have any unusual talents. Which is also the main reason many high-schoolers want to go to nation’s best universities(often referred to as "SKY") as graduating from a top university (aka "SKY") often leads to high status, better future socioeconomic status. However, to go to SKY, students have to go through brutally competitive years which is why many students have little time to sleep. I've heard that many of them take power naps whenever possible, saying, during lunch time, between classes.. not to dozz off during classes.

That sort of explains it. I thought that sort schedule was mandatory. I guess the unfortunate thing is while so few of them go to these "SKY" universities nearly all of them must pay the metaphorical cost of attempting to get in.

I think it's a tragedy of the commons in that the only reason they have to study 20 hours per day is to keep up with other students who are studying 20 hours per day to keep up with them. e.g. if they had a gentleman's agreement that none of them would study more than 12 hours per day, none of them would suffer disadvantage but because some study more to get ahead all must study more merely to keep up.

I guess it would also be contingent on the amount of homework they get. It might be that 2AM nights are required merely to complete it, let alone get into one of those SKY universities.

I think the reason they stay up so late could be because of the three or so hours per evening the spend in these Hagwons. I have a hunch they're not doing their homework there but taking a revision class. That pushes homework time back 3 hours (plus travel time to and from the Hagwon). So hypothetically, if they did all their school assignments after school but didn't go to the Hagwon, they might be able to complete all the homework issued by their school well before midnight.

Are Hagwons mandatory? Do the schools think it's normal for their students to attend these Hagwons? Is the amount of homework issued calculated based on a free evening as though the Hagwon didn't exist or do the school teachers themselves think a 20 hour day is normal, having experienced it themselves when they were younger.


What would happen if one of them didn't enrol in the Hagwon? Surely the school by itself offers the complete curriculum. Isn't the Hagwon nothing more than revision? Is revision more effective than a good night's sleep? Surely the college entrance exam wouldn't ask questions the answers to which are only taught at the Hagwon, right?

What do they do on weekends? Catch up on sleep? Study at home all day? All day Hagwon session? Do they even have weekends or are all seven days of the week exactly the same?

I wonder how they're able to complete tests twice as fast as westerners. It implies that the amount of school work they do in a 20 hour day would take a westerner 40 hours. I know that I get very tired very quickly when I try to work faster than normal. Perhaps only the best students were selected for the experiment in which South Korean students try the British maths test. Or perhaps if their level of study several years higher at the same age, than the British maths test seemed like something from several grades earlier to them, allowing them to complete it with ease.

The real mystery for me is how they're able to endure that lifestyle. It seems like it should be totally unbearable. Even if it's only for one or two years. They say teenagers need more sleep because their brains are developing. Being tired is supposed to inhibit your learning ability and yet while tired they learn maths I was never able to understand while well rested and learn at least one second language. While tired they study at double speed.

There have been times when I could have a few four hour nights and still be alert in the morning but what I find impossible is studying in the evening. A few hours after dinner time and I just stare at the textbook instead of reading it. My gaze goes down the page line by line without any comprehension. Yet they're still reading at 2AM, how are they able to retain it?

The limits of human endurance are a great mystery to me. One that I wish to unravel so that I might gain some small fragment of their amazing abilities.


The girl in the article said she enjoyed studying but just wanted more sleep. As though given a 16 hour day of studying she'd find it restful and enjoyable whereas we westerners would hate to have a 16 hour day. What I want to know is how I can enjoy studying like her so that I won't need to have separation between study time and recreation time.

Think of it, why is it that I can spend my evening reading a popular nonfiction book, learning it's contents and consider that to be a restful experience yet if I spend my evening reading a textbook, it seems like a type of work. Why is learning from the nonfiction book easier than learning from the textbook? Or why is completing difficult challenges in a really hard video game more forthcoming than completing practical exercises? Probably because games offer more repetition, thus a shallower learning curve. Although these Asian schools have very long hours, if they used that additional time to have a shallower learning curve they might be easier in a way, offering more what my kung fu coach calls "mental autopilot time".

For instance, there are about 40 universities in Seoul, Korea and three of them are called "SKY" (Seoul National University+Korea University+Yonsei University) and top ranked 16 other universities are also in Seoul (hard to make an entrance into as well, they're called *In-Seoul-Universities*) so even if they fail to go to SKY, they can go to other 16 universities which are nationally respected as well.

You can tell in some sense, they choose to suffer themselves for the better future. Many students give up going to SKY early enough and focus on developing their talents or something.

No body can force them to study till 2AM, they choose to, so they can. High school teachers usually don't give their students damning amount of homework, so it's not usually homework that makes them stay awake, but the amount of materials and subjects to study.

Already exhausted I'll stop here lol. To be continued, so wait. It could take several days to months.

That's sort of what I meant, if teach teacher only gives you a modest amount of homework / reading, it could add up fast.

I used to struggle with that, not only due to the cumulative amount of material but also because due to my poor executive function, I had a harder time estimating how much time I needed to do five small subjects than I would with one big subjects. I guess since most of the population is NT that wouldn't be an issue for most people.

So it's mostly just reading for the Koreans? Not a lot of assignments? I get it. I guess in a way reading is a lot easier than doing stuff. I could probably make myself read when I'm half asleep but my retention wouldn't be as good if I'm tired, unless it was for a special interest. I think NTs can make anything their special interest instead of only have one or two special interests like us guys. I mean, the focus we devote to our special interest, NTs could devote to anything they need.

Reading is easier but less useful. I find practical school work to be a lot harder and more frustrating yet at the same time, I also learn ten times as much from them. I'm a doer. I learn how to do something by doing it.Ok, rest up. Thus far you've given me a lot of insight into this mystery. How do you know so much about it?

I have many acquaintances there besides of understanding Korean language so it's easier for me to research articles related.

I don't think I would mind if a guy still lived with his parents, as long as he's at least working on becoming independent.

The main dealbreakers for me would be 1) no job, and 2) no driver's license.

What about a guy who had a valid driver's licence but didn't own a car?

I ask because I've arranged to sell my car and I'm concerned it will make me undatable.

It's obvious RetroGamer87, why asking what's obvious? both would be the same...

Ask yourself: what is the difference between one has a license and one who won't own a car? ....nothing, just a piece of paper, both won't drive a car.

Why do you think she cares if a guy doesn't have a license? because he won't be motorized and that's a no no for her - if she lived in an imaginary country where they allow people to drive cars without any license, then the license won't matter for her, it's the driving a car that matters.

And if he doesn't have a car, then he can't drive a car - at least not all the time.

How come you want to sell the car? Is parking a problem where you live?