Aspires and NT relationship issues

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Myers-Briggs types are meaningless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN6_K6ALeZI

@anngables I can definitely relate! One of my best friends is an Aspie and it took us two years to figure out how best to communicate without driving each other mad! We recognized the importance of allowing each other to be just exactly who we are and not taking everything so personally. The very same thing happened to me today on FB. He hasn't read my IM messages and yet is happily posting all day on FB about NASA and politics and the new Australian space program.

I'm an extreme extrovert and he is an extreme introvert. I just fell in love with him so hard so fast two years ago and while our romantic relationship didn't work out, I know we will be friends for life.

At the point at which we truly came to an understanding about letting each other be exactly who we are the exchange looked a little like this...

Me: I'm sorry I forced my friendship on you and sent several emails that bordered on stalking you
Him: I'm sorry I wasn't in a place in my life to accept your love
Me: I'm glad we worked hard at being friends
Him: Me too

Then about 3 weeks of silence and ignored FB IMs. Ha! Point is...I said I accept him for who he is...and that includes ignoring my IMs. Now as for what he accepts about me? I send inappropriately long IMs and emails and I like to give him gifts for no reason, which makes him uncomfortable, but he tolerates for me because he knows that's who I am. That's true friendship. I love him so much just exactly as he is.

This is what often feels so fake to me.

Maybe I can put things into perspective a bit and maybe you can help me at the same time. Thanks for this post, by the way. Just like you could see my perspective earlier, I can see yours right now.

So here's the deal. My wife passed away a few years ago, and I've stayed in the state of Colorado so he could be near his mom's family (I don't have a big family in New Jersey). My son's aunt and uncle feel in love with my son from the moment he was born, and have kept very involved in his life. For instance, they'll take him to their place for an entire weekend sometimes a couple of weekends in a month, and they'll bring him to car shows during the summer. Basically, they adore him, and he adores them.

Now they have also kept me in their life and let me know that I'm a part of the family too, even though my wife passed. Concerning my wife's father who's still alive at age 94 (just went to his birthday party last weekend), I'm still referred to as the son-in-law. So even though it will be 5 years on January 6th, I'm still invited to major events and kept included in the family. But than there's that Aspie part of me that has felt rejection so many times. So many times have I been excluded. That paranoid part of me that knows I can't discern the truth asks whether I'm included in the family because I was married to my wife, or is it simply because I have an adorable son who's well loved in the family.

So my mind will switch between trust and distrust, contentment and resentment when it comes to my wife's family. One time my son's aunt and uncle paid for me to do to a trip to Dallas, Texas to take part in a healing conference for singles. Basically they felt that I needed help with the loss of my wife, and to find a new path in life since I left my job with Amazon.com and didn't really come up with a new profession to replace it. The conference helped, and that showed that they cared about me. Or DID it? Perhaps they are worried about me because I'm raising my son and they really did the conference to help HIM, not me. Would I have been sent to a conference if I didn't have an adorable son?

I think you're getting the idea now. I thanked them for the trip, and I'm sure it cost a fair amount for them (heck, they even rented a car for me), but my thank you was somewhat muted. When they bring Jacob back from a car show, I know he's had the best time of his life and I'm grateful that he has them in his life, but that doesn't necessarily mean I thank Jacob's aunt and uncle for taking him. I do sometimes when I feel that trust, but other times when I'm sure they only view me as a slab of meat that happened to produce a beautiful child, I don't say thank you.

So, I often wonder how they view me. Am I viewed as ungrateful? That'd be the correct view sometimes, but other times I'm very grateful indeed. Depends on the day and my thought process at that time. What do you think? I value your opinion and take this opportunity to see what an NT thinks who also understands somewhat the perspective of an Aspie.

As for your friend, please don't dump him. I'm sure he's been dumped so many times. You can read into his not messaging you a congratulations whatever you want, but please understand his brain doesn't function correctly. I'm sure other people, not understanding the underlying cause of autism and not even knowing he is autistic, have written him off as this strange man with awkward social skills and go out of their way to avoid him. What hope is there for us if you, who understands more about autism than most NTs, sets aside that understanding and rejects him. What hope is there for him? A dog can get beaten down only so many times before it snaps at its owner.

Is it doing something nice if you expect them to reciprocate? Like when someone buys the coffee for the person after them, that's nice but if they then expect the next person to do it t then hey didn't do it to be nice. I do stuff for people that's nice and don't expect them to do anything back. Otherwise you're just trading iou and favors constantly trying to be even. Gifts are similar, my mom gets me $50 gift for my birthday so I'm have to get her a $50 gift for her birthday. Seems it'd been easier t skip it and just let her spend the money on something she wants.
I bought a $40 gift for my sort of friend, I doubt he'll get me a gift for my birthday he never has.
I'd rather someone do something nice for me cause they care and want to rather out of a need to reciprocate something I did.

That's a people thing not a aspie thing. People will ignore me all the time or tell me they busy then I see them on Facebook posting or on PS4 gaming.

Are you a "clingy" person too? Do you like daily contact?
A lot of people are independent and thus prefer weekly or monthly contact and feel ok, they therefull call people who prefer daily contact clingy. While I'd consider someone who needs contact every 5 mins clingy. That person probably doesn't consider themselves clingy.

Wow. . . .thanks lots of replies whilst I slept. . .. . Aspiesingledad . . .. I am going to think over your post and give it the attention it deserves later if that is ok. I want to think and explore my feelings and reactions and how I would respond as an NT in your position.

Sly the reciprocation thing is interesting . . . And no if you are expecting exactly the same back in return and only doing it in expectation of a return gift then it is not a nice time. However us NTs often use gifts, messages, little notes, flowers as a medium for expressing how much we care for someone. Being prepared to put yourself to inconvenience to pop and see a friend who is sad or to support them at an event is all part of the rich tapestry of our social interactions.

I would never go to someone's events and think "right now they will be coming to my event" it doesn't work like that. HOWEVER if after a long time you never get anything similar in return, you begin to feel that the person is just taking advantage of your good nature.
Does any of that make sense . .. .

Your thread is interesting for me but let me translate you how I read, how I understood what you wrote here. Sorry, if it's harsh, I don't know how to communicate politely nor see the point to beat aroudn the bush.

" Exciting for me, and many of my friends were really pleased and excited for me. In fact so excited that 3 of them took time off work or out of their day to come to the art house to see the art piece in its new place and we had coffee, took photos and chatted"
Sounds like - 3 friends of mine came to see my art why he couldn't be bothered even if I didn't ask him.

"Oh and just remembered when he had his first exhibition this summer I turned up with a bottle of whisky and a card to congratulate him " - I was there for him, it's his turn now.

"I don't think we have different expectations. I have asked him clearly if he wants our friendship as it is" - we do have different expectations.

"From an NT perspective it's strange not to want to share in a close friends happiness and experience" - why did he not come and share my happiness?

"No I didn't . . .. and I didn't mind him not being there . .. and he is busy doing something else today. That is not the issue. I am just surprised at not even a text or a comment on the phot on Facebook etc etc . . ..
Actually the more I write about it the more it does actually upset me." - I am upset about it, posting about it on forums, I'm saying I didn't mind him not being there as I want to look tolerant.

"I didn't want him there . .. it just would have been nice to have some sort of acknowledgement."- Why did he ignore me?

"This is the reciprocation thing. Of you have a friend you can call on to do nice things for you sometimes it would be good to do nice things in return" - I don't do friends who don't reciprocate.

"I'm more upset as the day goes on because I understand he was busy etc etc. . .. .but he is on Facebook now commenting on different posts .. . . But nothing to me. I think he probably takes me for granted." - I didn't ask him to come, I didn't tell him how he made me feel, I made it out like not a big deal and now I'm posting on forums as I am upset about it.

"I either accept this is just how it is. . .. or I walk away" - Walk away, I am not getting what I want so I might just walk away.

"He's a good guy .. . .. . Maybe he just doesn't care enough about our friendship to keep the sustained effort going. . .. . .for me it's not an effort it's just normal and what I do all the time with my good friends."- I am not getting what I want.

"And no if you are expecting exactly the same back in return and only doing it in expectation of a return gift then it is not a nice time. However us NTs often use gifts, messages, little notes, flowers as a medium for expressing how much we care for someone. Being prepared to put yourself to inconvenience to pop and see a friend who is sad or to support them at an event is all part of the rich tapestry of our social interactions."- I am not getting what I want.

Basically what I hear is all about you. Do you really accept him as he is? Do you really understand that this is the way he is and should not expect NT ways from him. You said changes last for a couple of weeks. Are you patient enough to stick around anyhow? Do you understand his point of view, how he is ?

I expected harsh responses and that is fine

My purpose of this tread was to try and show how if feels from an NT perspective so that is why it is all about me.

Did you however read my comments about understanding that if he had said he hoped it goes well then that was enough.

That I would never tell him I feel slightly sad about a lack of a message yesterday because I would hate him to feel sad or annoyed or as of he had done something wrong.

Have you read my other posts about how much I adore this friend and that is why I am here trying to really understand him?

And we have been good friends for over 2yrs now so yes I am sticking around.

If you really try to understand him, talk to him.
If somebody doesn't say what the problem is I will think everything is fine and I will carry on like before.
If you are good friends I am sure you can find a way to communicate with love and understanding but you have to talk.
Clear communication is essential.

"understanding that if he had said he hoped it goes well then that was enough."

You wrote you were upset. I don't understand how it can be enough if it upsets you.
And I know the NT way. It's all about me, selfish mainly. Not anybody's fault, this is the way they are.

It upsets me because although rationally and scientifically I understand . .. . . My irrational highly emotional part was hoping that he would text me.

This is the nature of these friendships . .. .. . I understand and accept my friend . .. . But I am still me, and I will still react and respond in some way in the way I am wired. I may not act on it or say anything because that would upset him . . .. BUT there is always a little bit of hoping

Stilljaded . .. . . .yes it sounds like you are in an almost identical situation. . .. . . Although ours has never been a romantic relationship .. .. . .. . . And funnily enough I have introduced my friends to other people I know stating "this is David I adore him and he tolerates me" it is a joke by the way

As she has already explained, it's "about her" deliberately, how she experiences the relationship. The big thing difference about NTs and people with AS is that NTs have various requirements for the relationship to grow\continue, there is a method to maintaining relationships and that's something that we lack understanding of. To me a friendship is someone I can talk to if we meet and if they want to phone me up to go play pool, or see a band or a movie I'll happily go along. However NTs need more than that. To give a simple explicit example, the phone call "just for a chat". These are things that NTs do, they enjoy it and it strengthens social bonds. That's just how people are. The big reason AS people fail to keep relationships (both friendship and romantic) is that we don't get that and we don't really need it ourselves. So in an NT\AS relationship there is a high chance the NT is not getting what they need from the relationship, something they *can* get elsewhere.

People are always moaning on here that they can't get girls, can't get friends, and this is one of the reasons why, they don't know how to make them happy.

The way I see it, there are two ways this can go. One is that the person with AS learns to play the NT game and tries to fulfil NT's needs so that they can get better at maintaining relationships, or they just stay as they are and end up with no-one wanting to be in their lives.

You seem to be suggesting the latter, that NTs should just lower their expectations, ignore their own needs and bend to the will of the person with AS even though it's not a satisfying relationship for them and just put up with it. In other words....it's all about the person with AS, it's all about what they want and need from a friendship and the NT should just put up with it.

Whilst I disagree with this way of living, if that's what you want to do then fine...but the fact that you call NT people "selfish"? So NTs should abandon all of their needs and instead do everything that the AS person wants, and you call *them* selfish? The mind really boggles with this place sometimes, as I've already posted on this thread, you simply can't help people who don't won't help themselves.

It seems the third way this could go is already forgotten.
Why is the NT way the default by the way?
Why the AS should try to fulfil NT's needs and abandoning their true self?

To reverse your logic ASs should just do things that are absolutely illogical, ignore their own needs and bend to the will of the person with NT even though it's not a satisfying relationship for them , might cause anxiety and just put up with it. In other words....it's all about the person with NT, it's all about what they want and need from a friendship and the AS should just put up with it and force themselves to be who they are not.
Otherwise they deemed not to be fit in society.

Love is 100 % acceptance. Caring and all that comes after. As long as you don't accept the other person as they are warts and all, you don't love them, you love the idea of them and you love your idea how a relationship should be. Goes both ways obviously.

And yes, she showed how she experiences that friendship. I could see how she does it.
Well, I wouldn't want a friend who can't communicate with me. As a friend they should know that I won't get angry if we are on a different page and Im not getting what I want as long as honesty and transparency is there. If my friend doesn't tell me that she would have loved another acknowledgment of her success I would think she was okay as I am not a mind reader. A real friend tells me when I am being a c#nt, being insensitive or condescending.

The NT way is the default way because they are normal, it's an NT world, we're abnormal so if we want to fit in with that world it means doing seemingly abnormal things.



No-one *has* to do anything, AS people don't *have* to fulfil NT's needs, but if they don't then they have to accept that they'll never have relationships, they'll always lose the friends they have. So it's a choice, do it and try to "fit in" or don't do it and be alone. However if you choose the latter then take it on your own head, don't make thread and thread after thread after thread on here whining about how no-one wants you and you can't get a girlfriend.

Yeah it might be hard, it might cause anxiety and so on....but you have a disability. Overcoming disabilities takes hardships and effort I'm afraid. None of us asked for this, but we have it, so it's a case of put up or shut up.