Male disposability in life & dating

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Umm.... you can't compare a whole scientific field to a some stupid golf club.

Honestly, very few girls at my school were interested in computers, even the enteraiment aspect of it such as gaming, let alone coding.

I recall when I created my first little games in Casio Programmable calculator (using BASIC); the boys were very impressed and wanted to copy to run them on their calculators (there was no data cable, so they had to copy it by typing). None of the girls were even remotely interested except this one girl.

I do recall girls used to express hate for the computing class.

I recall only this classmate (mentioned above) who was fond for it, I was used to exchange games on floppy disks with her; she was the most non-social girl tho and she never mixed with the other girls. She works in IT today.

Part of this is cultural - even I was repulsed from computers because they were "for boys". And my lack of interest in shooting games made it worse. I was way better in maths and logic behind programming than my brother but he was turn on by the very fact it were computers and I wasn't.
Today we both do coding for life.

But it is only part of the effect. The other part is - yes, statistically more boys are interested in STEM than girls. Is it really a reason to call STEM girls "men with vaginas"? For me, as an example, this is disgusting, like I couldn't be a woman doing what I like.

This is a response to those guys on here (such as sly279) who say its unfair that fat women don't struggle to find partners (eventually) but fat men do struggle greatly. We could also postulate that as to why skinny women are seen as "fit" yet not skinny men... et cetera. And those guys that think its unfair that jobless women are dateable but not jobless men, or even men that earn low wages. Also the dating experiments that prove it's FACT that average-looking women get comically greater volumes of messages and interest than average-looking men. Obese women get even more messages than healthy weight average men even. I could also throw in disability (including Aspergers, not that I think its a disability), and how we Aspie men are seen as considerably more 'worthless' than our female counterparts, even females with a more severe disability or social impairment. Then we have the media that promulgates male disposability only further,often with the tabloids distorting facts in cases. For example there is great focusing on men with Aspergers and autism, that we are 'criminal' etc, only further creating a sense of disposability among a group of men who are otherwise, law-abiding, likeable people who make terrific colleagues, friends, partners and fathers.

The sex roles that drove a man's and a woman's behavior for thousands of years had great impact on each sex. One of the impacts of the sex role on men was the attitude of disposability that developed over the years. By that I mean the tendency of people to be less likely to get emotionally close to men and to see them as expendable. Why would that be?

Imagine we are living long ago and the women were caring for the hearth and the children and making forays to gather while the men were more likely to go out and hunt or defend the tribe/watchmen. The relative danger of those two behaviors is not subtle. Going out to defend your tribe is decidedly more dangerous and the liklihood of the man returning home after was much smaller than the same liklhood for the woman performing her daily activities. When we dont' expect someone to return what impact does that have on our interest in making an emotional attachment to them? It diminishes. We are less likely to invest our emotional ergs into someone or something that we fear may not be with us. This was obviously not just around the issue of war or hunting, but in dating too. Men were expected to guard women from other men within their own troop. This was a dangerous activity and again, increased the liklihood that the 'lesser' man would be disappearing. The 'lesser man' or highly disposable man is ugly, or simply more unmanly looking: fatness/obesity, poor facial symmetry, short height, scrawny, reduced, weak-looking etc. This is why women love muscles, height and guys with strong facial bones (absorb blows better). They simply look like better warriors.

We tend to not invest in folks who we fear will not do a good job protecting and will not be returning. Yet another example is modern war time. Men were the ones who were expected to go to war and die protecting the village/community/country.

This diminished investment is not subtle but very few people are aware of their own tendency to do this. Let's try an exercise to evaluate your way of thinking. Has it ever bothered you that if you see f.e. an injured cyclist with a bloodied head? Are you are more likely to help out if its a woman? but you're not even aware that your doing this? What about modern warfare? it is only males expected to go and die in case of a national emergency? Does that bug you? Okay, now imagine that congress in all its wisdom has changed the law and decided that we need to draft only girls and women until an equal number of women and girls have died in combat to the numbers of men and boys who have died. Would that upset you? Why? Do you value women and girls more than boys and men? How about if we decided to draft only Black people? Maybe only Jews? Would either of those groups being sacrificed upset you? Would you protest for any of those to not be the only group drafted? Can you feel in your bones how upsetting that would be? If you answered yes to any of those questions, how was your response different from thinking it is okay to draft only men? If you had a different reaction then you are likely holding some of that tendency to consider men and older boys to be more disposable.

You can see this tendency in many places. Boys and men comprise almost 80% of suicides and yet we have no outcry or services specifically for this. Men and boys are over 90% of the workplace deaths in the Unted States but no one seems to notice. Over 97% if the deaths of U.S. servicemen in Iraq are men and boys and yet we hear no protest in support of men and boys or calls for equality. Men are the victims of domestic violence and workplace bullying in considerable numbers and yet we have no services directed towards their needs. All we need to do is open our eyes to see the extent that men and boys are seen as expendable. It is all around us. Ever heard of the wife telling the husband she will go investigate the loud noise that awoke them from a deep sleep?

The age old sex role for men has trickled down into a straight-jacket that harnesses men to be the expendable ones. Most people are simpy unconscious of this and treat men according to their own unconscious programming.

I believe that being unwanted is different than being disposable. And with respect for being wanted, one must ask "what for?"

I acknowledge the hardships of men that you mentioned and I have nothing to say against them. However I do have commentary on your perceptions of women and dating.

The spot on the list of priorities where men put sex, women put marriage or a long term, committed, relationship that may result in marriage.

There is an abundance of straight men who wish to have sex with women, and many of those men are not picky about who they have sex with, as long as that person is female. There are a number of men who hang out on the street around here, and if I were to ask them if they wanted to have sex with me, they would probably say yes, and many men tend to resent women for the fact that many men want to have sex with us.

But sex is their priority and not mine, and typically not the priority of most women. The last thing most women want is to be used merely as an object to satisfy a man's sexual desires.

My priority, and the priority of many women, is as I said. Marriage or a long term, committed relationship that may result in marriage, and that is something that can be difficult for us to come by.

I'm almost 40 and no man has ever had a serious interest in dating me, much less marrying me. I have a high school friend who used to ask me to marry him when he was drunk but hasn't mentioned it since I told him we should have a serious talk about it. So when you talk about dating, you misunderstand the situation if you think women get what they want more than men, just because women get what men want more than men. I would wager to say that most men actually get what they want more than most women, because these days, people don't often wait for marriage until they have sex, and a woman who won't "put out" before marriage, unless she is with a very religious man, is going to be single again very quickly.

That women get more messages on dating site than men come down to the fact that there are many opportunistic men who will send her a message, that our society is still one where the man is expected to do the asking, and often times, prefers to do the asking.

Humans are a patriarchal leaning species behaviorally and this places both women and many men in disadvantageous positions. I think those of us on the spectrum are really more optimized towards a more egalitarian society, but we ended up here instead.

Part of this is cultural - even I was repulsed from computers because they were "for boys". And my lack of interest in shooting games made it worse. I was way better in maths and logic behind programming than my brother but he was turn on by the very fact it were computers and I wasn't.
Today we both do coding for life.

But it is only part of the effect. The other part is - yes, statistically more boys are interested in STEM than girls. Is it really a reason to call STEM girls "men with vaginas"? For me, as an example, this is disgusting, like I couldn't be a woman doing what I like.

^ He has a point, out of those 9000+ male admirers she would surely find a good match, come on...

^No extrovert man or woman wants someone too emotionally independant.

My gf always complain about me being too emotionally independent; if there will be a break up at someone it will be because of this.

9000 is just her Instagram followers! If you include all the hits she gets on dating sites (100's a month) and men approaching her at the gym (dozens a month I suspect), she must at least have 15'000+ men a year show interest in her. Yet she's complaining nobody is "right for her", even though she ignores and doesn't get to know the majority of the men who show interest.

And she works a low wage retail job in Sainsbury's. What does she want? Christopher Reeve circa 1978!




Where men get confused and irritated is when a woman who is manifestly NOT too good for them by any reasonable objective metric acts as if she genuinely believes that she is. The reason is exactly that women have no clue about their own worth and over estimate themselves by the amount of attention they get.

Look at it this way. A woman who is slightly above average but not super hot or very well paid, manages to attract the passing attention of a very male model-looking, higher-status man, even if she does so through taking the role of the pursuer, is quite reasonably, if incorrectly, inclined to consider herself worthy of the attentions of hot, higher status men in the future despite the declining marginal utility of her youth and sexual history. This is why a woman will always identify her status by the football star, the surgeon, or the hunk with whom she once spent a few hours rather than by the nondescript fellow who was her boyfriend for several years, regardless of how long ago it was.

Because women do not distinguish between the quantity of male attention and the quality, the conflation encourages them to a) overrate their own attractiveness, and, b) invest their time and attention in men who are not likely to have any interest in them beyond the immediate term. So, the skinny female 5 who earns low wages in Sainsbury's grocery store considers herself an 8 by virtue of the times that a male 8 decided that she was the best available at the moment, and quite logically feels insulted when she is approached by a skinny male 5 male Sainsbury's work colleague - who is her equal in reality.

What does she want? For you to tell her about your problems more?

This and a more explicit way of expressing emotions.