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Giving women gifts is desperate, but stopping is entitled?

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Aaendi
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21 Feb 2018, 12:16 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Aaendi wrote:
Another problem with people telling me to "be nice to others without wanting anything in return." You can't choose to want something or not. You either want something or you don't. That's not how people's brains work.


I think its 'don't expect expect anything in return' wanting and expecting aren't the same thing. And there is some truth to it, of course you can't help what you want, but that doesn't mean you should expect to get everything you want. Also doing something with the sole purpose being getting what you want from someone else, is called manipulation.

Being 'nice' to a girl for the sole purpose of getting her to have sex with you would be manipulation for instance.


But there is no way of knowing if that's his sole intention or not, unless he makes it extremely obvious.



Sweetleaf
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21 Feb 2018, 7:23 pm

Aaendi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Aaendi wrote:
Another problem with people telling me to "be nice to others without wanting anything in return." You can't choose to want something or not. You either want something or you don't. That's not how people's brains work.


I think its 'don't expect expect anything in return' wanting and expecting aren't the same thing. And there is some truth to it, of course you can't help what you want, but that doesn't mean you should expect to get everything you want. Also doing something with the sole purpose being getting what you want from someone else, is called manipulation.

Being 'nice' to a girl for the sole purpose of getting her to have sex with you would be manipulation for instance.


But there is no way of knowing if that's his sole intention or not, unless he makes it extremely obvious.


Which will occur when the guy in question gets pissed at the girl in question, if she declines to have sex/consider him her boyfriend just because he was 'nice'. But yes a lot of times people may not initially realize someone has manipulative purposes but much of the time they find out.


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Aaendi
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21 Feb 2018, 9:38 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Aaendi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Aaendi wrote:
Another problem with people telling me to "be nice to others without wanting anything in return." You can't choose to want something or not. You either want something or you don't. That's not how people's brains work.


I think its 'don't expect expect anything in return' wanting and expecting aren't the same thing. And there is some truth to it, of course you can't help what you want, but that doesn't mean you should expect to get everything you want. Also doing something with the sole purpose being getting what you want from someone else, is called manipulation.

Being 'nice' to a girl for the sole purpose of getting her to have sex with you would be manipulation for instance.


But there is no way of knowing if that's his sole intention or not, unless he makes it extremely obvious.


Which will occur when the guy in question gets pissed at the girl in question, if she declines to have sex/consider him her boyfriend just because he was 'nice'. But yes a lot of times people may not initially realize someone has manipulative purposes but much of the time they find out.


What if it's just a build up of emotions?



NorthWind
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22 Feb 2018, 4:07 am

Aaendi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Aaendi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Aaendi wrote:
Another problem with people telling me to "be nice to others without wanting anything in return." You can't choose to want something or not. You either want something or you don't. That's not how people's brains work.


I think its 'don't expect expect anything in return' wanting and expecting aren't the same thing. And there is some truth to it, of course you can't help what you want, but that doesn't mean you should expect to get everything you want. Also doing something with the sole purpose being getting what you want from someone else, is called manipulation.

Being 'nice' to a girl for the sole purpose of getting her to have sex with you would be manipulation for instance.


But there is no way of knowing if that's his sole intention or not, unless he makes it extremely obvious.


Which will occur when the guy in question gets pissed at the girl in question, if she declines to have sex/consider him her boyfriend just because he was 'nice'. But yes a lot of times people may not initially realize someone has manipulative purposes but much of the time they find out.


What if it's just a build up of emotions?


Those emotions wouldn't built up if he doesn't feel like she owes him sex. You get angry with someone if you feel like they wronged you. If you feel like she wronged you because she doesn't have sex with you, then you feel entitled to sex. (he could get angry instead if she rejects him rudely or makes fun of him or lead him on (or he thinks she did) etc. but if the reason is simply that she doesn't have sex with him and not the how she rejected him, then yes he feels like she owes him sex for being nice)



Aaendi
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22 Feb 2018, 7:41 am

NorthWind wrote:
Aaendi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Aaendi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Aaendi wrote:
Another problem with people telling me to "be nice to others without wanting anything in return." You can't choose to want something or not. You either want something or you don't. That's not how people's brains work.


I think its 'don't expect expect anything in return' wanting and expecting aren't the same thing. And there is some truth to it, of course you can't help what you want, but that doesn't mean you should expect to get everything you want. Also doing something with the sole purpose being getting what you want from someone else, is called manipulation.

Being 'nice' to a girl for the sole purpose of getting her to have sex with you would be manipulation for instance.


But there is no way of knowing if that's his sole intention or not, unless he makes it extremely obvious.


Which will occur when the guy in question gets pissed at the girl in question, if she declines to have sex/consider him her boyfriend just because he was 'nice'. But yes a lot of times people may not initially realize someone has manipulative purposes but much of the time they find out.


What if it's just a build up of emotions?


Those emotions wouldn't built up if he doesn't feel like she owes him sex. You get angry with someone if you feel like they wronged you. If you feel like she wronged you because she doesn't have sex with you, then you feel entitled to sex. (he could get angry instead if she rejects him rudely or makes fun of him or lead him on (or he thinks she did) etc. but if the reason is simply that she doesn't have sex with him and not the how she rejected him, then yes he feels like she owes him sex for being nice)


I'm talking about a guy asking a girl out on a date. I get pissed off when women jump to the conclusion that I just want to date for sex.

...and no being pissed off does not mean that someone feels entitled or is owed something. Feeling entitled is the edge-case extreme, where the man continues to persue a woman after being told no repeatedly.



Aaendi
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22 Feb 2018, 2:33 pm

Everybody knows that 99% of the time women reject men it's because they assume the man feels entitled to sex, and 99% of the time men are angry at women for assuming that.



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22 Feb 2018, 2:48 pm

Aaendi wrote:
Everybody knows that 99% of the time women reject men it's because they assume the man feels entitled to sex, and 99% of the time men are angry at women for assuming that.

Most of the time women reject men they reject them because they're not attracted to this man and have no interest in dating him. It's as simple as that. They don't need to assume anything like that about him to not be interested in him. If he reacts angry to being rejected that may make them assume he feels entitled to sex though.



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22 Feb 2018, 3:20 pm

Aaendi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Aaendi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Aaendi wrote:
Another problem with people telling me to "be nice to others without wanting anything in return." You can't choose to want something or not. You either want something or you don't. That's not how people's brains work.


I think its 'don't expect expect anything in return' wanting and expecting aren't the same thing. And there is some truth to it, of course you can't help what you want, but that doesn't mean you should expect to get everything you want. Also doing something with the sole purpose being getting what you want from someone else, is called manipulation.

Being 'nice' to a girl for the sole purpose of getting her to have sex with you would be manipulation for instance.


But there is no way of knowing if that's his sole intention or not, unless he makes it extremely obvious.


Which will occur when the guy in question gets pissed at the girl in question, if she declines to have sex/consider him her boyfriend just because he was 'nice'. But yes a lot of times people may not initially realize someone has manipulative purposes but much of the time they find out.


What if it's just a build up of emotions?


Still doesn't really justify someone getting actively angry at someone because they decline to date or have sex with them, that still makes it look like they were manipulating from the beginning, or at least after the wrong things. Its just very distasteful to get mad at someone because you put an expectation like that on them and they simply failed to follow along with what you wanted.

Also I don't mean you specifically, I am just generally speaking...just don't want to give the wrong idea that I am accusing you of that. Kind of hard to completely describe things in third person so yeah.


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Last edited by Sweetleaf on 22 Feb 2018, 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sweetleaf
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22 Feb 2018, 3:34 pm

Aaendi wrote:
NorthWind wrote:
Aaendi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Aaendi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Aaendi wrote:
Another problem with people telling me to "be nice to others without wanting anything in return." You can't choose to want something or not. You either want something or you don't. That's not how people's brains work.


I think its 'don't expect expect anything in return' wanting and expecting aren't the same thing. And there is some truth to it, of course you can't help what you want, but that doesn't mean you should expect to get everything you want. Also doing something with the sole purpose being getting what you want from someone else, is called manipulation.

Being 'nice' to a girl for the sole purpose of getting her to have sex with you would be manipulation for instance.


But there is no way of knowing if that's his sole intention or not, unless he makes it extremely obvious.


Which will occur when the guy in question gets pissed at the girl in question, if she declines to have sex/consider him her boyfriend just because he was 'nice'. But yes a lot of times people may not initially realize someone has manipulative purposes but much of the time they find out.


What if it's just a build up of emotions?


Those emotions wouldn't built up if he doesn't feel like she owes him sex. You get angry with someone if you feel like they wronged you. If you feel like she wronged you because she doesn't have sex with you, then you feel entitled to sex. (he could get angry instead if she rejects him rudely or makes fun of him or lead him on (or he thinks she did) etc. but if the reason is simply that she doesn't have sex with him and not the how she rejected him, then yes he feels like she owes him sex for being nice)


I'm talking about a guy asking a girl out on a date. I get pissed off when women jump to the conclusion that I just want to date for sex.

...and no being pissed off does not mean that someone feels entitled or is owed something. Feeling entitled is the edge-case extreme, where the man continues to persue a woman after being told no repeatedly.


Well that's not really what I was talking about, asking a girl on a date isn't being misleading. I was talking about being 'nice' to a girl to 'get them to date or have sex'...and then being pissed off at them if they decline on the basis of you were being 'nice' so they should accept. Doesn't seem like what you are describing. It would be reasonable to be angry if someone jumps to the conclusion you just want sex if you really don't. I was specifically describing anger at someone because they don't reciprocate ones 'niceness' in the way that was expected by the person being 'nice'.


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Aaendi
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22 Feb 2018, 5:13 pm

Quote:
Also I don't mean you specifically, I am just generally speaking...just don't want to give the wrong idea that I am accusing you of that. Kind of hard to completely describe things in third person so yeah.


Yeah, I get what you mean.