When girls smile at you

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I think you are not talking about NTs above, rather NDs. NDs are not that rare (probably 1 in 6 is ND), and they have the same issues as you have, possibly have adapted better, but still will pickup ND expressions of feelings and work intuitively with you.

So, this is basically the advice I try to give all the time. Stop caring about NTs and learn to detect NDs, and you will find you can relate to them and even start relationships without using dating or anything else that NTs invented.

If I may, I will in the most amicable possible way disagree. I absolutely definitely AM talking about NTs. In theory I believe in intuitive and perceptive NDs, but in practice I have yet to meet one (astrologers and teaching colleagues and pupils have said I am one, so this indicates it may perhaps be possible, but it also could indicate I've fallen into the trap of believing my own publicity, which would explain why my last psychiatrist said I was narcissistic).

My best friend is definitely Neurotypical. She is also SOOOOO intuitive and perceptive that, when we were working at the same timewarp girls' boarding school (Hogwarts minus 100 years, and minus boys), we were lumped together as freaky horse-whisperers (or affluent-girl-whisperers), and she latched onto me before I'd even noticed her existence. She is married to a man she and I are sure has Asperger's, but he's in denial about that and so is his psychiatrist. Their marriage would not have survived but for her sensitivity and intuition and perceptiveness. She's been married to this man since I was in short trousers, yet she STILL sometimes asks me to explain him to her, in order to avoid strangling him. This is a hyperintelligent and tenderhearted lady of seventy-something, and she knows her husband is wonderful (he is quite a guy, to be fair), and she's going to stand by her man until twenty centuries after eternity has elapsed, but she doesn't fully understand him; because she's Neurotypical. How could she? Her astrological star chart is fascinating, but still, in sheer psychiatric terms, she's completely normal.

If you think you want to wait for another Aspie to turn up who will be compatible with you, then good luck!! !! !! !! !

If I may, I will now quote the following saying: "f**k that for a game of soldiers!"

I believe the gist of the above saying is, futility.

Magical horse-whispering people are already rare enough. If you arbitrarily decide they can only come from the ND population, then you're narrowing down your options to an extent I find unacceptably minimal. Myself, and call me an apostate if you want, I've found quite a few Aspie-whisperers in the NT populace, and they've kept me something close to sane.

So much inconsistency in this. First, ND-NT relationships typically won't survive this long, and second, if she has psychic abilities she is definitely not NT. A huge majority of psychic people are NDs, and those that are not, are mixed.



I'm not talking about psychiatry, rather about being ND. The closest you get to psychic abilities in psychiatric diagnosis is Schizophrenia, but then that is when things have gone seriously wrong. Schizophrenia and the traits related to it (like psychic traits & paranormal beliefs) are strongly correlated to being ND (and to being autistic).

You also should note that NDs (and autistics) typically are hypersensitive, and psychic abilities do relate to acute senses. In fact, NTs are so much into verbal exchange (talking) that they cannot engage in communication that is not based on talking, and thus cannot do things like transfer feelings & thoughts between each other or with animals. Their social rules are not based on being sensitive, rather they just follow their innate preferences.



I found her, and our mind-to-mind communication is just amazing. We could handle any issue without talking. We don't even need to be close to communicate.



Horse-whisperers might be unusual, but then many NDs have psychic abilities without even knowing it. You just need to trigger them.

And suddenly, things got really weird (even for an Asperger's forum)

You ain't seen nuthin!...wait till you see what's under my sleeve

We may perhaps have wandered slightly from the original query. I don't think I could defend myself adequately against the charge of inconsistency without taking up more space than that side issue deserves, and anyway I didn't mean to get into an argument with anyone. The couple concerned come from a place and time where separation would be so frowned upon that it isn't an option; the fact the marriage has lasted is not an indication the relationship is really working, and indeed there are many (myself included) who have recommended its termination. She has her own reasons for ignoring that advice, which are honourable but somewhat outwith the scope of this forum. I can only say I am convinced the lady would not be clinically considered sufficiently far along the autism spectrum to receive any A.S.D. diagnosis, so for purposes of this forum I classified her as NT rather than ND. She appears to sense or learn very rapidly what someone on the spectrum won't like, but never to have the remotest notion of why not: similarly, she's a good driver but has no idea how the car actually works. So her perceptiveness and sensitivity may be exceptional (and thus, by definition, atypical), but she isn't in any way identifying with or sharing autism-spectrum thought processes.

Anyway I apologise for any annoyance caused. I seem to have been lucky enough to meet some amazing people who would not score as in any way autistic in any professional assessment. That is why I felt it unwise to limit oneself only to other A.S.D. individuals. On the other hand, the fact I even got round to joining Wrong Planet (after years of looking in from outside) suggests I'm hankering for contact with others on the spectrum. The fact I keep returning to the Love & Dating department must say something too!

Returning to the original query and in the interests of being positive, I'm (mostly) at peace with the fact I have an incomplete set of social skills; it certainly can get in the way of forming or maintaining friendships and relationships, but there will always be some people who find a way to like you, even if you aren't picking up on their social cues in an NT fashion.

Now, however, I can hear that P!nk number, "Conversations with my 13-year-old self." There are young people here who sound like they're feeling pain and confusion similar to pain and confusion I vividly remember. I may have overestimated my admittedly few abilities in supposing I could say anything that might in any way ameliorate anyone's pain or confusion. But that was all I was endeavouring to do.

That's kind of the issue. Relationship issues are not part of the ASD diagnosis, and so seeking people that are compatible in the relationship area by looking at ASD diagnosis doesn't make any sense. Also, if you are diagnosed with ASD, it's mostly unwise to seek others that are also diagnosed, because that will be a couple where both have lots of issues with their ND-traits.

This doesn't mean that Aspies should seek NTs. It means they should seek NDs (broader phenotype) partners, which are NOT NTs. For me, you are not NT because you have no ASD diagnosis, but because you lack autistic traits and work in the same way as the majority population.

So, I don't claim that the wife you talked about is diagnosable with ASD, rather that she is likely ND, which is not the same thing.

O.K. so in fact I was being slipshod with my acronyms, and suddenly it appears rdos and I are much more in agreement than it previously appeared: limiting yourself to other A.S.D. partners would be very, er, well, limiting, not to say unrealistic (unless you had the amazing good luck to find someone who so profoundly shared your visceral love of dinosaurs or Lego or teapots, or whatever, that you could contrive to overlook any other incompatibilities which might threaten to supervene), but on the other hand, a totally normal and conventional person with a normal intelligence quotient and a conventional outlook is probably only smiling at you for normal and conventional reasons; an Aspie would probably not be desirable, as a life-partner, for a 100% pure-bred, straight-down-the-line NT, so if one of those is smiling at you, her smile has as much significance as Sigmund Freud's cigar (i.e., "There are times when a cigar is just a cigar"). For quite a lot of people, a smile is just a smile; just a tiny social gesture, rather than an expression of desire or a proposal of marriage.

My 1933 Oxford English Dictionary runs to thirteen volumes, but includes no definition for "neurodivergent". I suppose in 1933 it would be covered by "eccentric" (if you had money) or "mental defective" (if you were working-class). I'm qualified to teach History and Latin. I'm qualified to drive buses and heavy goods vehicles. I'm not qualified to toss words like "neurodivergent" around. Or not without a grown-up supervising, anyway. And possibly some kind of amber rotating beacon lamp.

So yes, if you are an Aspie with any sexual and/or life-partnership inclinations, then a smile from a mainstream NT girl is not to be overinterpreted, but hopefully you'll deal with it better than I tend to do, and hopefully you'll remember to smile back, within the bounds of moderation and decency of course. But yes also, if you are an Aspie with any sexual and/or life-partnership inclinations, then the chances are your bed-partner and/or life-partner will need to be in some way remarkable or exceptional or unusual, or at least broadminded and intrigued BY the exceptional or the unusual. If that technically makes her Neurodivergent, irrespective of whether or not she's on the autism spectrum, then I'm not using that term correctly, and nor is anyone else I've yet personally physically met. Never mind; that's only semantics for pedantics. What I think I was getting at was, rather, that I still can't believe I've ever managed to have a consensual bipartisan sex life at all, yet somehow I have, and knowing how to interpret and respond to smiles played NO, repeat NO part in those unexpected successes: so, evidently, although not knowing how to deal with smiles is vexing (not to say paralysing), it doesn't automatically condemn you to a life of involuntary celibacy. Twenty years ago, I even had a serious offer of marriage, and I knew even less about smiles then than I know now!

So I would recommend just accepting that you don't fully understand girls' smiles. There are also many NT guys who don't. It isn't an albatross round the neck.

Just because you are not diagnosed with ASD doesn't mean you should try to imitate NTs. There are a set of relationship preferences that are linked to neurodiversity and ASD that are incompatible with the typical. It's things like not liking the typical sexual behaviour, being unable to make verbal contact and disliking dating. Some people can imitate the typical behavior to varying degrees and might even be so good at it that they are able to get a neurotypical partner, but it's not optimal. Typically, these kind of relationships will be a lot of work and will drain your energy, which is why they typically won't last. When you find a compaible partner you can naturally share emotions, intuitively know each other's desires and don't need to work on the relationship. It will give you energy rather than drain you. If you identify as asexual you might become sexual with this special person.

When it comes to smiling this a neurotypical social behaviour and so doesn't work to attract somebody that is neurodiverse. In fact, I would immediately categorize a girl that is smiling at me to make contact as incompatible. She would need to handle the eye contact game correctly for me to identify her as compatible.

Last edited by rdos on 04 Oct 2019, 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't know either, I just look away and they run away

I notice that many of these type of threads the posters just repeat the same thing but repackage each post in a different way as if it becomes more salient. I think we can establish that smiling is just spontaneous non-verbal form of greeting that comes naturally to NTs.

It disturbs me that a person can jump from a smile all the way to thoughts of sex?

I enjoy a woman's smile. I find a woman's smile sexy. What's wrong with that?

I am pretty sure that 99.9% of women smiling are not thinking of sex when they look at a male. However our thoughts are our own and if a women is sexy in the first place then whatever she does is going to come across as sexy to a male. However it is creepy if you are working with that person.

They probably are not thinking of sex----but so what?

That doesn't mean I can't feel good when a woman smiles at me.

Recalling my teenage years, I was very lonely socially/emotionally AND teeming with hormones; I was pinning all my hopes on finding just one girlfriend who would also be my best friend and ultimately become my wife. I assumed I'd be pretty lucky to find myself even one girl, in my entire life: I certainly didn't expect I'd ever be capable of attracting more than one. Obviously this was years before Asperger's was "a thing" in general parlance, and years before I had a diagnosis. By the time I was 14, the school doctor thought I was showing early signs of schizophrenia.

So, put yourself in that kind of lonely and confused and desperate position. Most of the girls around you laugh at you (along with all the boys, naturally, and indeed some of the teachers), so obviously the girl you lose your virginity with and who becomes your lifelong hand-holder and guide and the mother of your children isn't going to be one of those girls: you can rule them out. What about the kinder-hearted girls who DON'T laugh at you, and who occasionally try to defend you or console you? Maybe one of them will turn out to be her? Maybe one of those quiet one-to-one pep-talks in an empty classroom will lead to something else...? What about when you encounter a girl not from your school or college, who (therefore) doesn't know you're a complete laughing-stock: maybe you might stand a chance with her?

That's how, for maybe ten years of my younger life, any time a girl smiled at me I immediately wondered if she was going to be my first and only girlfriend, my first and only close friend, my first and only bed-partner, my first and only life-partner, and the mother of the several children I dreamed of having (I kind of wanted to make sure I gave some kids a happier time than I'd had; that's why I wanted to be a teacher, too). So that's how (or that is ONE way) a meaningless smile from a girl can lead to thoughts of sex, within the space of two seconds.

Once you've spent ten years or so thinking like that, the habit takes some kicking! It took me until maybe the age of 30, with the aid of two brilliant psychotherapists, to start getting my head around the fact that social interaction and sexual attraction are a tad more subtle and complex than that. By that age I'd had some girlfriends and lost my virginity, which alleviated the self-imposed pressure to grab some sexual experience, and of course my hormones had calmed down a lot by then anyway.

Perhaps I was a uniquely creepy and dangerous teen, who ought to have been locked up until he was at least 25 for the protection of the populace, but some of the comments from some of the younger guys indicate they may be going through something not totally dissimilar. If so, I find it poignant rather than disturbing (but maybe it's only my past self I'm weeping for, rather than them).

And yes, before anyone points it out, I know NOW that desperation is not generally attractive to women. NOW, I realize that. Back THEN, to the extent I was aware of it, I think I was kind of hoping my palpable desperation might prompt a kind-hearted girl to take pity on me. The more this didn't work, the more frantically I hoped it would...

The American smile I've found is a particular kind of smile where it's bigger and usually wider than a British smile. And less in the eyes sometimes. I like the manners of some American men.