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Ugly Guys Who Are Successful With Women

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Pepe
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05 Sep 2021, 2:15 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
I am committed to reality, and the reality is most people are average-looking and will end up with other average-looking people. All I have ro do to confirm this is scroll through my Facebook friends' pages.

If you want to believe that only super model-like men can get into relationships, and use that as a way to make yourself feel better, great, cool, but that has little enough to do with "reality."


Agreed.
This is rationally self-evident.

Most people find a partner in their own physically attractive league.
There are other factors such as wealth and celebrity, but that is the exception to the rulz. 8)



Pepe
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05 Sep 2021, 2:18 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
The OP's posts read like some self-help website, with generic, anecdotal stories; doesn't sound like any of these folks are real people in the OP's life. All we need now is the link to buy a subscription to whatever plan that's being offered.

I know it's good to think positive, but don't believe everything you read. If there's one thing SOME Aspies are stereotypically good at, it's commitment to reality, not rosy groupthink.


Fixed it for you. 8)



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13 Sep 2021, 8:31 am

Looks are somewhat important, but frankly they're not too important in the long run.


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Fnord
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13 Sep 2021, 9:00 am

Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It does not take wealth alone to make a man attractive, but it certainly takes more than looks alone.  It is enough for an ordinary man to attract long-term romantic interest if he earns a salary that covers his expenses and allows for a moderate amount of recreational/social activity.  There are other factors, of course.
An ugly man who has bugger all to offer in a child-producing type of relationship isn't going to be a "chick magnet".
Any man who has "bugger all" to offer usually has the "buggerly" personality to match.



Nades
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13 Sep 2021, 9:02 am

Fnord wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It does not take wealth alone to make a man attractive, but it certainly takes more than looks alone.  It is enough for an ordinary man to attract long-term romantic interest if he earns a salary that covers his expenses and allows for a moderate amount of recreational/social activity.  There are other factors, of course.
An ugly man who has bugger all to offer in a child-producing type of relationship isn't going to be a "chick magnet".
Any man who has "bugger all" to offer usually has the "buggerly" personality to match.


What is a "buggerly" personality?



Fnord
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13 Sep 2021, 9:09 am

Nades wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It does not take wealth alone to make a man attractive, but it certainly takes more than looks alone.  It is enough for an ordinary man to attract long-term romantic interest if he earns a salary that covers his expenses and allows for a moderate amount of recreational/social activity.  There are other factors, of course.
An ugly man who has bugger all to offer in a child-producing type of relationship isn't going to be a "chick magnet".
Any man who has "bugger all" to offer usually has the "buggerly" personality to match.
What is a "buggerly" personality?
So full of negativity that when the person leaves, everyone else feels as if someone has arrived.



Nades
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13 Sep 2021, 10:02 am

Fnord wrote:
Nades wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It does not take wealth alone to make a man attractive, but it certainly takes more than looks alone.  It is enough for an ordinary man to attract long-term romantic interest if he earns a salary that covers his expenses and allows for a moderate amount of recreational/social activity.  There are other factors, of course.
An ugly man who has bugger all to offer in a child-producing type of relationship isn't going to be a "chick magnet".
Any man who has "bugger all" to offer usually has the "buggerly" personality to match.
What is a "buggerly" personality?
So full of negativity that when the person leaves, everyone else feels as if someone has arrived.


Yeah that's very off-putting. I think rambling on about petty crap is also off-putting regardless of how good you look. Nothing makes me lose interest faster than someone who rambles about the drama in their street or family caused by people I don't know and have no interest in knowing. I'm sure it applies to women too.

Sadly if you're a person with bugger all to offer this is usually all said person talks about because their world doesn't extend beyond their street or family.



Fnord
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13 Sep 2021, 10:15 am

Nades wrote:
[...] Sadly if you're a person with bugger all to offer this is usually all said person talks about because their world doesn't extend beyond their street or family.
... or themselves.



Nades
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13 Sep 2021, 10:36 am

Fnord wrote:
Nades wrote:
[...] Sadly if you're a person with bugger all to offer this is usually all said person talks about because their world doesn't extend beyond their street or family.
... or themselves.


I think there is a strong correlation between talking about the mindless drama in a tiny, often bottom of the barrel social circle and oneself to much.


Literally, I get sent to sleep meeting with some men who just ramble on about how someone owes him an absolute pittance. How a debt over 100 quid is of interest to me and why the hell this "creditor" has turned it into such a massive drama just makes me want to flush my own head down the toilet.

Off on a tangent, I noticed something interesting about attractive people too in that they also seem more sociable, smarter and higher achievers. I think if someone takes pride in how they look then they often take pride in what they achieve and how they behave. Spending ages on looks only for reputation to be ruined by behaving like a classless moron makes no sense clearly. I for one never see drop dead gorgeous women talk about the petty street drama I mentioned above and actually rarely (never) see stunning women without a degree or job.

To a lesser extent it seems to apply to attractive men.



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13 Sep 2021, 10:53 am

[opinion=mine]

↑ In response, it seems to me that the most successful and well-adjusted people have personalities that are neither self-aggrandizing nor self-deprecating -- they are neither braggarts nor chronic complainers.

The philosopher Aristotle is credited with the concept of "The Golden Mean": the desirable middle between two extremes, one of excess and the other of deficiency.  This concept seems applicable to the concept of the Narcissistic Spectrum.  On the excessive end are the "classic" Narcissists, who have an exaggerated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others.

At the deficient end is the Anti-Narcissist, whose only difference from the "classic" form is an exaggerated sense of their own unimportance -- the "buggerly" personality -- while still retaining their deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others.

Somewhere in the middle are people who think well enough of themselves to be happy, yet not so well of themselves that they see no need for improvement.  These are the people who socialize, make friends, form healthy relationships, and are generally considered "successful" in some way.

[/opinion]



Pepe
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13 Sep 2021, 11:20 am

Whale_Tuune wrote:
Looks are somewhat important, but frankly they're not too important in the long run.


Consciously or unconsciously, intimate relationships are primarily concerned with breeding credentials, using an evolutionary context.

Once the offspring are produced, physical attractiveness has done its job. 8)

Sexual satiation is irrelevant, in the scheme of things.
The continuation of the evolutionary process is the mindless point to life, based on Richard Dawkin's book "The selfish gene".
I concur. 8)



Pepe
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13 Sep 2021, 11:23 am

Fnord wrote:
Nades wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It does not take wealth alone to make a man attractive, but it certainly takes more than looks alone.  It is enough for an ordinary man to attract long-term romantic interest if he earns a salary that covers his expenses and allows for a moderate amount of recreational/social activity.  There are other factors, of course.
An ugly man who has bugger all to offer in a child-producing type of relationship isn't going to be a "chick magnet".
Any man who has "bugger all" to offer usually has the "buggerly" personality to match.
What is a "buggerly" personality?
So full of negativity that when the person leaves, everyone else feels as if someone has arrived.


That is a very specific definition of "buggerly". :mrgreen:



Nades
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13 Sep 2021, 11:32 am

Fnord wrote:
[opinion=mine]

↑ In response, it seems to me that the most successful and well-adjusted people have personalities that are neither self-aggrandizing nor self-deprecating -- they are neither braggarts nor chronic complainers.

The philosopher Aristotle is credited with the concept of "The Golden Mean": the desirable middle between two extremes, one of excess and the other of deficiency.  This concept seems applicable to the concept of the Narcissistic Spectrum.  On the excessive end are the "classic" Narcissists, who have an exaggerated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others.

At the deficient end is the Anti-Narcissist, whose only difference from the "classic" form is an exaggerated sense of their own unimportance -- the "buggerly" personality -- while still retaining their deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others.


I think it just comes down to how well adjusted someone is like you said. Developing a nice rounded personality is very difficult if you've spent most of your life living well outside the societal norms. If the first thing someone has done after failing school is to sign on the dole (British equivalent of unemployment benefits) where they have remained for the last 20 years then it'll reflect in their personality, the people they have been socialising with all that time and their outlook of others and their own life. Success of any sort is an alien concept to them and other successful people will never get along with them. It leaves them in a death spiral of only being able to socialise with other like minded people and further alienating themselves for society and stunting their ability to get along with anyone outside their circle. It's no coincidence that these people also look a bit "rough".

I don't consider myself successful but speaking to these types of "buggery" people gives me a headache.

Fnord wrote:
Somewhere in the middle are people who think well enough of themselves to be happy, yet not so well of themselves that they see no need for improvement.  These are the people who socialize, make friends, form healthy relationships, and are generally considered "successful" in some way.

That covers literally not a single person with ASD ironically.

[/opinion]



Fnord
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13 Sep 2021, 11:50 am

Nades wrote:
Fnord wrote:
[opinion=mine]

↑ In response, it seems to me that the most successful and well-adjusted people have personalities that are neither self-aggrandizing nor self-deprecating -- they are neither braggarts nor chronic complainers.  The philosopher Aristotle is credited with the concept of "The Golden Mean": the desirable middle between two extremes, one of excess and the other of deficiency.  This concept seems applicable to the concept of the Narcissistic Spectrum.  On the excessive end are the "classic" Narcissists, who have an exaggerated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others.  At the deficient end is the Anti-Narcissist, whose only difference from the "classic" form is an exaggerated sense of their own unimportance -- the "buggerly" personality -- while still retaining their deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others.
I think it just comes down to how well adjusted someone is like you said. Developing a nice rounded personality is very difficult if you've spent most of your life living well outside the societal norms. If the first thing someone has done after failing school is to sign on the dole (British equivalent of unemployment benefits) where they have remained for the last 20 years then it'll reflect in their personality, the people they have been socialising with all that time and their outlook of others and their own life. Success of any sort is an alien concept to them and other successful people will never get along with them. It leaves them in a death spiral of only being able to socialise with other like minded people and further alienating themselves for society and stunting their ability to get along with anyone outside their circle. It's no coincidence that these people also look a bit "rough".  I don't consider myself successful but speaking to these types of "buggerly" people gives me a headache.
Fnord wrote:
Somewhere in the middle are people who think well enough of themselves to be happy, yet not so well of themselves that they see no need for improvement.  These are the people who socialize, make friends, form healthy relationships, and are generally considered "successful" in some way.

[/opinion]
That covers literally not a single person with ASD ironically.
This may come down to a "chicken-or-egg" situation.  Do people become "Narcissistic" because they have been mistreated, or do they mistreat others because they were born "Narcissistic"?  By the same token, do people become "buggerly" because they have been mistreated, or do they mistreat others because they were born "buggerly"?

(We definitely need a different label for Narcissists on the deficient end of their spectrum.)



Nades
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13 Sep 2021, 12:09 pm

Fnord wrote:
Nades wrote:
Fnord wrote:
[opinion=mine]

↑ In response, it seems to me that the most successful and well-adjusted people have personalities that are neither self-aggrandizing nor self-deprecating -- they are neither braggarts nor chronic complainers.  The philosopher Aristotle is credited with the concept of "The Golden Mean": the desirable middle between two extremes, one of excess and the other of deficiency.  This concept seems applicable to the concept of the Narcissistic Spectrum.  On the excessive end are the "classic" Narcissists, who have an exaggerated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others.  At the deficient end is the Anti-Narcissist, whose only difference from the "classic" form is an exaggerated sense of their own unimportance -- the "buggerly" personality -- while still retaining their deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others.
I think it just comes down to how well adjusted someone is like you said. Developing a nice rounded personality is very difficult if you've spent most of your life living well outside the societal norms. If the first thing someone has done after failing school is to sign on the dole (British equivalent of unemployment benefits) where they have remained for the last 20 years then it'll reflect in their personality, the people they have been socialising with all that time and their outlook of others and their own life. Success of any sort is an alien concept to them and other successful people will never get along with them. It leaves them in a death spiral of only being able to socialise with other like minded people and further alienating themselves for society and stunting their ability to get along with anyone outside their circle. It's no coincidence that these people also look a bit "rough".  I don't consider myself successful but speaking to these types of "buggerly" people gives me a headache.
Fnord wrote:
Somewhere in the middle are people who think well enough of themselves to be happy, yet not so well of themselves that they see no need for improvement.  These are the people who socialize, make friends, form healthy relationships, and are generally considered "successful" in some way.

[/opinion]
That covers literally not a single person with ASD ironically.
This may come down to a "chicken-or-egg" situation.  Do people become "Narcissistic" because they have been mistreated, or do they mistreat others because they were born "Narcissistic"?  By the same token, do people become "buggerly" because they have been mistreated, or do they mistreat others because they were born "buggerly"?

(We definitely need a different label for Narcissists on the deficient end of their spectrum.)


It's a bit of a mystery as to where it all starts. I noticed that while success often turns people into egomaniacs this isn't always the case and many people who have done nothing in their lives have an ego larger than Ted Bundy's rap sheet. I was once told that I wasn't able to do something (I have no idea what it was) by a lady and her reason for why I should listen to her was because she was a few months older than me.....as if being a few months older gives automatic right to authority over anyone younger. That was one of the worst cases of narcissism I ever came across.

This is in stark contrast to her deprived upbringing and life on benefits. I think deep down inside people have always had a narcissistic or buggery personality and their lifestyle either represses it or kicks it up to 11.



Fnord
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13 Sep 2021, 12:21 pm

In any case, so-called "ugly" guys who are successful with women -- those who can form lasting healthy relationships with women -- seem to fall somewhere in the middle of the "Narcissistic Spectrum"; not filled with self-pride, and not filled with self-loathing either.  Just confident enough to be generally successful, and just humble enough to not cause trouble.