How can I form a real romantic relationship?

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Some very interesting ideas here. I have noticed that when I am around friends I do not have to mask as much around (people who share my special interests or enjoy being around oddballs such as myself) it is so much easier to have a really deep conversation and feel very close to them. But I think you are right that the emotional intimacy is not the problem, the problem is how to sustain infatuation or the idea that this is necessary.

An interesting analogy. Maybe I should look at love as more of a friendship and less of a chemical reaction.

Yes, I do not believe in love at first sight, I think love is something that develops over time. Infatuation can turn into love but not right away.

I've put together a list of tutorials on assertiveness (without being aggressive), which perhaps you might find helpful.

Love and a romantic relationship is the evolution of a friendship between a man and woman, man and man or woman and woman

ALL romantic relationships start out with the foundation of friendships first then eventually evolve into romance and love

That's how it works

Hmmm, it seems to me that "ALL" is an over-generalization.

It is almost certainly true that most romantic relationships, or at least most good and stable romantic relationships, start out as friendships.

However, some romantic relationships do start in other ways, such as with a mutual crush, rather than starting with a friendship.

But the latter is relatively rare (and risky) and shouldn't be idealized as the only or best way for a romantic relationship to start.

In my experience this has never happened. All my romantic relationships began because I and the other person were looking for a relationship or at least a sex partner. The one situation in which I was approached in friendship by a girl who had gone to school with my first girlfriend, and ended up having sex with her a few times, no relationship developed.

Maybe this scenario is more likely later in life i.e. the OP's stage of life (not knowing their age).

When that transpires I would see it as disgusting and asexual if I were connected to it. I would not indulge in any of that. I would rather have someone hate me. Thinking like that is asking for hate and abuse. I would never abuse anyone but I would also never participate in a relationship like that. I imagine that is just a strange truth.

How long did these relationships typically last? How long did the longest one last?

Also, did you meet as total strangers, e.g. via a dating app, or were you both part of some common social circle (even if you weren't already close friends within that circle), e.g. attending the same school?

Well the longest was with my wife whom I met over 38 years ago and to whom I am still married. I would be happy to list all of them and how they began however some people might consider that oversharing. I could also PM you that information. Not certain how much of this would interest the average WP member.

I am most interested in the following question I asked earlier, regarding your wife in particular:


I think a lot of people here would be very interested to hear how your various relationships (both short and long) began, but if you personally prefer not to discuss this for privacy reasons, that's certainly your right.

My reticence is not out of concern for privacy but rather a wish to not parade my love life in front of this community, many members of which have a rather complicated relationship with the whole concept. However, as nobody has outright asked before, and also as I have nobody else with whom to discuss such things, here goes. I have thought about how to make this as brief as possible and still get the general idea across. I will not discuss how these relationships ended, for the sake of brevity.

1.) Knew a guy in college who was in a hot and heavy relationship with a townie. One weekend, a girl came to visit him, being aware of his relationship I assumed this girl to be unattached and so started chatting her up. It turns out she had been his gf since HS and had just learned he was now with somebody else. I somehow managed to obtain her phone number, called her, and arranged to meet up with her twice. At the end of the 2nd meetup, she kissed me. Well it turned out she was soon leaving the country (for Europe) for Spring semester (this may have been January I don't really remember) and we agreed to correspond. For the next several months we corresponded i.e. wrote letters and at some point she decided we were officially a couple. It was agreed I would meet her in Europe after the semester was over and we travelled together, sharing a bed from the beginning although we waited until she had her period and it ended before attempting intercourse (it was the first time for either of us)
2.) I had made the acquaintance of some of my previous gf's classmates from visiting her at college. Some time after that relationship was over, one of them reached out to me and I ended up visiting her on a couple of different weekends and we had sex. We were each the other's 2nd partner. No relationship developed from this.
3.) I joined Mensa and went to my first meeting. After standing there a short time, a woman (she was 28 I was 22 at the time) walked up to me, announced that she had schizophrenia (although she call it "dementia praecox"), continued to chat with me for a while, and eventually asked me if I wanted to go with her to her apartment. After talking with her at her apartment for a while, she asked me if I wanted to have sex with her. I continued to date her for 3-4 months.
4.) I joined a Summer academic program in Germany (I was 23 at that time) and could identify only one clear "prospect" who had just graduated from the (fairly prestigious) Catholic university that ran the program. I proceeded to chat her up, mostly because she was the only seemingly available female in the program rather than because I found her all that attractive. After 2-3 occasions of my hanging around her, she abruptly turned to me and announced that if I bought a condom we could go back to her room and have sex. I was in a relationship with her for most of the next year with one breakup.
5.) A male school mate (I was back in school after a hiatus) who would probably be considered non-binary today, had taken an apartment with a young woman just shy of her 21st birthday (they were not a couple). Out of curiosity, I went to the apartment. She was there and he wasn't. She took a shine to me immediately. I went back 3-4 times and basically hung out with her. Finally I tried to make out with her and her response was to start rubbing my crotch. This became the longest relationship I had before meeting my wife, we were officially a couple over 2 years (NOTE I was still in relationship 4.) when this happened).
6.) I took a self-improvement evening course and there was one woman there who seemed sort of approachable so I basically asked her out. We went to a restaurant and both got drunk (not falling down drunk but basically drunk). We went to her apartment, started making out, then ended up in bed.
7.) I moved into a garden apartment and one of my neighbors started hitting on me (a divorced woman a couple years older btw I was about 30 at the time). Dated her for a few months.
8.) At my job (I believe this happened before 7.) I had been hitting on a coworker who was a couple years older, it turns out this young woman who'd just graduated had seen me around the office and was temporarily living with her. She was attracted to me and told her roommate she wanted a date with me. So this was arranged and I went on a couple other dates with her in which we engaged in high-school-like PDA (she was 6.5 years younger than I and I believe quite inexperienced) but never had actual sex or became an official couple. She then dated a coworker her own age for about a year. Later after that ended she called me and basically said she wanted to pick things back up. We ended up officially dating for about 6 months.
0.) Around this time I became in involved with a Single's group that basically organized mixers, this relates to the last 2 items.
9.) Met a woman about my age at one of the above mixers who had apparently been dragged there by a friend (oddly she didn't seem to have many friends not sure who that was) — she should probably not have been there as her husband had just left her. I asked her out, on the 2nd date (I believe) I performed non-consensual oral sex on her for which she thanked me. After that, we were dating, this went on maybe 4 months.
10.) Met my wife at another such mixer the same year (she was 4.5 years younger than I and had apparently not dated anyone since college). On the first date I took her to an art museum and we ate at the museum café. On the 2nd date, I took her somewhere (probably a restaurant) and kissed her good-night at her door. On the third date, we spent some time in her apartment cuddling and watching TB. On the fourth date, she came to my apartment and we had sex. Two months later we were engaged.

EDIT I am quite certain some of these scenarios could not have played out in today's world.

i assume you are still in your 20s

Replying to some snippets from a complex nested quote here:

I wouldn't say that's how it always works, but that's how my current and longest-lasting relationship began, and it's what I've always regarded as the best way for a romantic relationship to start.

Some other people apparently have a very different opinion, however:


Can you explain why you feel that "Thinking like that is asking for hate and abuse"?

When you first met at the singles mixer, did you have any common friends or at least common acquaintances (perhaps among regulars in the singles group)? Or were you total strangers to each other?

Also was the singles group advertised to the general public, or were members recruited as friends of friends of the host, or recruited from some specific pre-existing social milieu?

We were total strangers to each other. Best I can claim is that her parents and my parents had mutual acquaintances, as her mother was a day student at the school at which my parents met as night students, and my parents had been involved in the alumni association. The mixer was advertised to the general public. After we became a couple, she participated in organizing subsequent mixers along with me.

I have another story concerning that group though, it might make you question that I'm on the spectrum but you may find it interesting. So there was a woman member of the group, she was perhaps a year or two older than I and conventionally attractive. That might have been her problem i.e. she may have experienced being hit on by a lot of "players" but wasn't attracted to that sort of guy. Anyway I guess she asked me out, I don't much recall the details but we were in her apartment and for some reason I guess she'd been forthcoming in that she was interested in me. So I pointed out to her how for cultural reasons, I didn't think we'd work out as a couple. What cultural reasons? Well she was from Eastern Tennessee in fact a stone's throw from where Dolly Parton grew up, and I said to her, if you had a boyfriend and your car broke down, you'd expect him to come by and fix it, right? And she admitted yes, that was indeed the case. Seems sort of stereotyped but in that situation I think it best to get down to basics. This pretty much settled the issue and we continued to be as friendly as before. She wasn't looking for something casual and probably expected to have more opportunities going forward. It really wasn't until that stage of my life (comfortably past 30) that I actually turned down what seemed like opportunities (I guess if she was that interested I could have gotten her into bed) so it doesn't surprise me that I found the "right person" not long after.

Not that any serious relationship is perfect but that's another discussion. The expectation that relationships should be perfect is probably breaking up a lot of families, in the old days they knew better lol.