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I wasn't "generalizing about men" I was explaining a tactic that I and other women do to stay safe. I have been cornered by terrifying men who would not accept a no on multiple occasions. I have been too afraid to give a blunt 'no' because some strange man had already managed to separate me from my friends or family and felt that they were allowed to manhandle me no matter how much I protested. Would you appreciate being cornered by a man twice your size? Would you want him touching you? Would you feel safe?

Since I was a teenager I've had random drunk/high men corner me who do not take no for an answer. Most of my friends say they have similar experiences with a wide variety of men, though I managed to attract the most drunk people. I'm not sure why. My one autistic roommate racked up stalkers like crazy. Strange men would see her and just follow her. I was genuinely worried for her most of the time.

If you don't believe me or the stories other women have relayed to me, because how dare women have experiences that are different than yours, Fnord said he met one. I'm glad your social circles consist of stand-up guys, but I have no way of knowing who is good and who is not. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

In future I wouldn't recommend swimming as a date suggestion. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of women wouldn't want to go swimming with a person they've just met and don't really know. It's a vulnerability thing.

Men may not like the point that Rhapsody is making, that women feel vulnerable around men and feel they have to take measures to protect themselves, but it's how a lot of women say they feel. So you kind of have to play that as it lays, rather than telling them they're wrong.

Taking most of your clothes off, being in water - these are both things that affect how safe we feel, man or woman. Humans are more vulnerable in water, our clothes are a layer of protection, physical and psychological.

Not saying the swimming was what put her off, just saying I'd steer away from that in future. Unless she's particularly talking about how much she loves swimming to you, maybe then.

My 19 year old daughter travels on her own for several years and has never once been harrassed. Perhaps avoid going out late and hanging around places where men get drunk, I would give the same advice for men or women.

Just because it didn’t happen to your daughter doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen to other women. We should be free to go wherever we want although one can encounter drunk people anywhere. Most of the unwanted behavior I experienced wasn’t from people who were drunk or high, though.

Your comment reads victim-blamey to be honest. There’s just no compassion being demonstrated here whatsoever by some folks when women share their experiences and valid concerns.

I'm glad your daughter has been safe, but would you imply it was her fault too if the same thing happened to her?

I do not go to places people get drunk because of my past experiences. I do not go out late. I do not go to bars or clubs. Drunk/impaired men find me anyway in "safe" spaces. Would you also suggest I never go to my school campus, take the train, see a concert, go to the grocery store, take a walk in my neighborhood? Because I have been cornered in all of those places by random drunk/impaired men who, by your logic, should not have been there.

And like Twilight said, it's not just drunk men that are the issue. I've been harassed and stalked by sober men in various locations and situations. I just have more experience with random drunks finding and harassing me than the average woman and they're more terrifying because, in my experience, they're even less likely to accept a no and more likely to grab me.

I'm going to make a drinking game everytime a post about women doing something to protect themselves has a "BUT NOT ALL MEN!!" post comes after it.

No s**t it's not all men, but this fear isn't just completely random paranoia.

According to the research I’ve cited before, most women do experience harassment at some point in their lives and 1 in 6 women is the victim of rape or attempted rape. According to the research, the stats are much higher for autistic women. It’s not all men, but it’s something that most women grapple with in one way or another - our mothers, sisters, aunts, cousins, friends, or whomever else’s experience matters and plays a role in our own experience.

Obviously, this stuff happens to men, too. I support ALL victims. I have also been outspoken on here about stuff like prison reform. Harassment and sexual violence disproportionately affects women in heterosexual contexts due to the general differences in size, weight, and strength as Rhapsody alluded to in an earlier post, and it makes caution prudent when it comes to dating or rejecting potential partners.

I often get the feeling that folks don’t like this topic being broached on here even when it’s entirely applicable, but it’s an important one because it plays a big role in many people’s dating behaviors. Using the cost-benefit analysis, many women decide that it is in their best interest to be cautious. That doesn’t mean that they think that ALL men are abusers, and it doesn’t always stop unwanted behavior from happening. Even if a woman lets her guard down and something happens on that occasion, it’s not her fault.

#MeToo

Context is key here twighlight. Its about practicing common sense. You can't change the outside world in terms of personal safety.

I'm sorry but where do you live? Is Australia the only country where women can walk around anywhere during normal hours and not be harrassed. I am not exaggerating, its very rare here for adult women to experience what you are talking about during daylight hours. Sure, there is violence against women in Australia but almost all of it is domestic violence and happens indoors and by males whom the victims know the perpetrators.

I 100% support any women's right to feel safe (I have a 19 yr old daughter and a wife, a sister and a mother). If they don't feel safe they have the right to be cautious.

Sticking to the topic, the Indian girl who sent Canadian freedom mixed messages is free to not contact him. But from the male perspective it does confuse us and is just one more thing we have to navigate in the dating world.

So just clarifying I am not invalidating Rhapsody's experiences or her cautiousness. Some men can be complete dickheads (literally) and that unfortunately there is nothing reasonable members of society can do about it.

But I also think this is not the major reason women reject men.

There's no advice that can stop a woman, or a man, from being harassed, targeted, bullied, or assaulted. That's the flaw in your thinking, and this is a common notion: that women can be advised on how to protect themselves and this will somehow make a difference. Until the culture of entitlement that exists for some men is broken down, harassment of women will continue even if they take all possible steps. (Unless you're suggesting they never leave the house? And even then domestic violence is still a risk.)

And are you sure your daughter was never harassed or has she just not told you to avoid worrying or upsetting you?

She tells mum everything. Maybe this is cultural too. People here are helful, one time my daughter was at the beach and she lost her shoes and wallet on the rocks. A bunch of men jumped in choppy waters and fished it for her. Australia is a pretty safe place I guess? I am not worried about her.

It absolutely is one of the major reasons if not THE major reason why women reject someone. There’s a lot of creeps out there. Given how persistent some of them tend to be, they may approach women more than nice guys, not that I have any statistics on it. I’ve been approached by more weirdos than otherwise, though, and it seems to be a common thing based on what I’ve heard from other women.

As per the research I cited, safety is a huge issue, so it makes sense why it would be a major reason.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 04 Oct 2024, 7:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

9 in 10 Australian Women Have Experienced Street Harassment

Articles on Street Harassment Australia

Street Harassment Rates Australia

Workplace Harassment Reform Australia

Workplace Harassment of Migrant and Refugee Women Australia

Sexual Violence Stats Australia

Sexual Assault Australia

Sexual Violence in Australian Universities

Sexual Assault and Harassment on Australian Uni Campus

I am talking about street harrassment so will focus on this link. I think the data is not time/place sensitive. My daughter is in the most vulnerable group, she is a teenage/woman of 19 with a disability who uses public transport. From the age of 16-19 she has told me she has had zero incidents with men.

She travels during mostly daylight hours but I have had to pick her up at night occasionally and she's not had problems.