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How important is intelligence...

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gwenevyn
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04 Sep 2007, 8:33 pm

nb411 wrote:
She wanted me to be more social and "share" our lives together.


What does that mean, exactly? Especially the part about sharing lives.

I think your observations about male/female partnerships and respective educational levels makes a good deal of sense. I've observed that many men seem conflicted on this issue. Having an educated wife who wears pretty office clothing has, in some circles, become just as much a status symbol as having a beautiful wife.

Coming at it from a different angle, I also wonder if perhaps women are more likely to "talk down" to a man in a relationship in which the male is the lesser educated of the two. Dr. Gottman of the University of Washington found in his research of married couples, that the most accurate sign of future failure of a relationship was a condescending attitude on the part of the female. (eye rolling, cutting remarks, etc.)


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calandale
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04 Sep 2007, 8:44 pm

gwenevyn wrote:

I think your observations about male/female partnerships and respective educational levels makes a good deal of sense. I've observed that many men seem conflicted on this issue. Having an educated wife who wears pretty office clothing has, in some circles, become just as much a status symbol as having a beautiful wife.


Neither's about status here. I want someone who
can express themselves AND whose appearance
is desirable. Though, the first is less about formal
degrees, but education can come from other sources.
And I want both, not for what others may think (though
I don't mind showing someone off a bit) but for my own
reasons. I'd go batty with some bimbo, and just wouldn't
feel the desire towards someone who didn't appeal to my
sense of aesthetics.



dongiovanni
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04 Sep 2007, 9:25 pm

Incredibly important. I couldn't endure the company of a person who couldn't understand my....discourse.



nb411
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04 Sep 2007, 10:18 pm

gwenevyn wrote:
nb411 wrote:
She wanted me to be more social and "share" our lives together.


What does that mean, exactly? Especially the part about sharing lives.


It means that of all the typical things, and all the absolute cliches out of romance novels you can think of, she was looking to live out with me. You just have to look at www.match.com to see what I am talking about hahaha. "I want to live life to the fullest" ,"I want to travel around the world", "I enjoy meeting new people", "I love watching the footy", "My friends and family come first" blah blah blah.

There is nothing wrong with what they are saying but I find it highly incompatible with my own Autism induced life goals. I still consider the exact same things as them important, but in a different way. I would also like to do a bit more travelling but you can bet it's not to engage with the local nightclub crowd or some such.

Is that clearer? You know I am thankful that you and Jainaday ask me to elucidate rather than making assumptions when I say something that does not initially make sense.

gwenevyn wrote:
Coming at it from a different angle, I also wonder if perhaps women are more likely to "talk down" to a man in a relationship in which the male is the lesser educated of the two. Dr. Gottman of the University of Washington found in his research of married couples, that the most accurate sign of future failure of a relationship was a condescending attitude on the part of the female. (eye rolling, cutting remarks, etc.)


This was *exactly* my experience yes. Sad but true.



Pugly
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04 Sep 2007, 10:22 pm

nb411 wrote:
gwenevyn wrote:
Coming at it from a different angle, I also wonder if perhaps women are more likely to "talk down" to a man in a relationship in which the male is the lesser educated of the two. Dr. Gottman of the University of Washington found in his research of married couples, that the most accurate sign of future failure of a relationship was a condescending attitude on the part of the female. (eye rolling, cutting remarks, etc.)


This was *exactly* my experience yes. Sad but true.


The minute I start sensing that sort of attitude towards me in a relationship... I'm out.

Well not if I'm married... then I have some work to do. But really I don't see how a guy could stand being in that kind of relationship...

That's the main sort of thing I am trying to avoid. I'd rather be with anyone... than have to deal with those annoying, cutting, condescending remarks...


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calandale
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04 Sep 2007, 10:29 pm

Pugly wrote:

That's the main sort of thing I am trying to avoid. I'd rather be with anyone... than have to deal with those annoying, cutting, condescending remarks...


Guilty of making them here.
But, 'tis hard, if one's play
is misunderstood, and one
begins to compensate by
barbing it, a bit.



Pugly
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04 Sep 2007, 10:35 pm

calandale wrote:
Guilty of making them here.
But, 'tis hard, if one's play
is misunderstood, and one
begins to compensate by
barbing it, a bit.


I guess when the goings gets rough... that's just a part of a personality.

But it's one aspect of my personality that I am kind of proud of... I try my hardest to never make these sort of comments... and undermine someone's intelligence. No matter how rough it is... I'm trying to understand the other side...

I feel bad when I roll my eyes at someone.

At least some humility to say you are sorry after the fact... would be appreciated. I guess in the heat of the moment things happen, but an apology would be expected...


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Wonder what it feels like to be in love?
How would you describe it, like a push or shove?
Guess I could pretend that this is all I need
Wanting more than what I have might appear as greed.


calandale
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04 Sep 2007, 10:39 pm

Pugly wrote:

I guess when the goings gets rough... that's just a part of a personality.


Indeed. But, I'd avoid something I couldn't
converse with. Well, at least I tell myself that.

Quote:
But it's one aspect of my personality that I am kind of proud of... I try my hardest to never make these sort of comments... and undermine someone's intelligence. No matter how rough it is... I'm trying to understand the other side...


I can try and understand too. Doesn't
seem worth it, when there is no commonality
in intellect. There are things that I'm an idiot
about - and I'd expect to get piss for them.

Quote:
I feel bad when I roll my eyes at someone.


I'd never do anything so crass.
They would notice. The intention is
not to hurt, but to merely amuse myself.
Quote:
At least some humility to say you are sorry after the fact... would be appreciated. I guess in the heat of the moment things happen, but an apology would be expected...


Again, why should I point out their inferiority,
when they wouldn't even notice?



nb411
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04 Sep 2007, 10:40 pm

Well you're right, I didn't respond very positively to it so much so that I/we put an end to the relationship.

I mean I can tolerate that behaviour from time to time when I know it's not really meant and is just stress induced or whatever, but as I said towards the end there it started becoming too much of a sport. I am not the sort of person who hangs around for beatings.



techstepgenr8tion
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04 Sep 2007, 10:43 pm

nb411 wrote:
gwenevyn wrote:
Coming at it from a different angle, I also wonder if perhaps women are more likely to "talk down" to a man in a relationship in which the male is the lesser educated of the two. Dr. Gottman of the University of Washington found in his research of married couples, that the most accurate sign of future failure of a relationship was a condescending attitude on the part of the female. (eye rolling, cutting remarks, etc.)


This was *exactly* my experience yes. Sad but true.


That really depends though. I've known lots of girls who had guys who were less educated, they did everything for em, and those guys were generally the bad boy types who couldn't hold jobs, probably dealt just enough to keep their supply of weed coming, and they're girlfriends felt like they were in this desperate quagmire with them but didn't leave for years.

As far as a good guy is concerned though, he doesn't have to take cutting or condescending remarks. It happens regardless of education, its called if a guy lets a woman walk on him she quite likely will. Its one of those things where if you know it already got out of hand and she's locked in that sort of behavior its time to cut your losses and leave. Its like any kind of other social maintenance, friends or anyone else, if someone starts edging on them you need an appropriate way to check em.



nb411
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04 Sep 2007, 10:54 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
nb411 wrote:
gwenevyn wrote:
Coming at it from a different angle, I also wonder if perhaps women are more likely to "talk down" to a man in a relationship in which the male is the lesser educated of the two. Dr. Gottman of the University of Washington found in his research of married couples, that the most accurate sign of future failure of a relationship was a condescending attitude on the part of the female. (eye rolling, cutting remarks, etc.)


This was *exactly* my experience yes. Sad but true.


That really depends though. I've known lots of girls who had guys who were less educated, they did everything for em, and those guys were generally the bad boy types who couldn't hold jobs, probably dealt just enough to keep their supply of weed coming, and they're girlfriends felt like they were in this desperate quagmire with them but didn't leave for years.

As far as a good guy is concerned though, he doesn't have to take cutting or condescending remarks. It happens regardless of education, its called if a guy lets a woman walk on him she quite likely will. Its one of those things where if you know it already got out of hand and she's locked in that sort of behavior its time to cut your losses and leave. Its like any kind of other social maintenance, friends or anyone else, if someone starts edging on them you need an appropriate way to check em.


Seems I already pre-eptmed part of your response up there TechStep.

I could see what was happening and it was so gradual too. It didn't just suddenly come about. I suppose this serves as proof of my social shortcomings in that I had at the time no instinct for how to keep the respect. I mean an intelligent NT is of course going to also be more socially intelligent than an average one. How can I possibly compete with that? I know exactly what should have been different *now*. Therefore I would never let this type of situation occur for myself again.



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04 Sep 2007, 10:56 pm

calandale wrote:
I can try and understand too. Doesn't
seem worth it, when there is no commonality
in intellect. There are things that I'm an idiot
about - and I'd expect to get piss for them.


Well even if they are of lower intellect, you can still disagree without disrespect. There are plenty of things I find difficult, and I know there are things that I am good at that others have trouble... this is something that I can understand. The point is... I guess... when someone starts ignoring you over everything... it's a distinct stage when someone regards you as completely worthless. I'd imagine many relationships are in this stage... and it's pretty much dead... nothing can be done.

calandale wrote:
I'd never do anything so crass.
They would notice. The intention is
not to hurt, but to merely amuse myself.


Yeah, intent is important. If it's something just playful... then who cares... it's just a big joke anyways. But... especially among aspies... I'd imagine... it's hard to notice when it's just play... and sometimes the play might indicate something larger. In which case it would be easy to disregard all play... when in fact there is a bit of truth. I can see myself falling into this trap... and something I see women do often with my friends. Make comments that are the same time jokes... and subtle jabs about what they really want.

calandale wrote:
Again, why should I point out their inferiority,
when they wouldn't even notice?


Well I'm implying that there is disrespect happening... and an apology is needed after that. If it is all some playful stuff for your own head... well then there isn't really disrespect... maybe...


_________________
Wonder what it feels like to be in love?
How would you describe it, like a push or shove?
Guess I could pretend that this is all I need
Wanting more than what I have might appear as greed.


juliekitty
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04 Sep 2007, 10:57 pm

Let's just take a moment to remember that men can be arrogant and condescending towards women as well, 'kay?



Pugly
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04 Sep 2007, 10:58 pm

juliekitty wrote:
Let's just take a moment to remember that men can be arrogant and condescending towards women as well, 'kay?


I don't think I said otherwise... :?:

It's bad going both ways... it's actually sad that it's sort of expected out of men...


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Wonder what it feels like to be in love?
How would you describe it, like a push or shove?
Guess I could pretend that this is all I need
Wanting more than what I have might appear as greed.


calandale
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04 Sep 2007, 11:04 pm

Pugly wrote:
Well even if they are of lower intellect, you can still disagree without disrespect.


Who said anything about disagreeing?
If it's an argument, I TRY to be clear.
Most people can't get it (not a matter of
intellect, just differing ways of looking),
but I usually don't play much then.
Quote:
There are plenty of things I find difficult, and I know there are things that I am good at that others have trouble... this is something that I can understand. The point is... I guess... when someone starts ignoring you over everything... it's a distinct stage when someone regards you as completely worthless. I'd imagine many relationships are in this stage... and it's pretty much dead... nothing can be done.


Again. I don't think that I could bear to be
WITH someone who didn't understand, and
play similarly. Still, I'm cruel, and sometimes
twist blades just for fun.

Quote:
Yeah, intent is important. If it's something just playful... then who cares... it's just a big joke anyways. But... especially among aspies... I'd imagine... it's hard to notice when it's just play... and sometimes the play might indicate something larger. In which case it would be easy to disregard all play... when in fact there is a bit of truth. I can see myself falling into this trap... and something I see women do often with my friends. Make comments that are the same time jokes... and subtle jabs about what they really want.


Exactly. A different issue though. And one
that hurt my wife dearly. But, sometimes
I didn't even realize that I was hurting her.
And she didn't like to show weakness, any more
than I do.
Quote:
Well I'm implying that there is disrespect happening... and an apology is needed after that. If it is all some playful stuff for your own head... well then there isn't really disrespect... maybe...


Different issue again. The playful jokes at someone's
expense ARE disrespectful. But, they don't catch those.
These are people I don't give a s**t about, but I'm still
not going to insult them in ways that they understand.
One is sometimes forced to be around those without
similar types of cleverness. I'd guess that they do the
same, with what I can't seem to fathom.



calandale
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04 Sep 2007, 11:04 pm

juliekitty wrote:
Let's just take a moment to remember that men can be arrogant and condescending towards women as well, 'kay?


Isn't THAT what we're discussing?