Don't trust ANYTHING women say.

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Pugly, my last post was primarily aimed at KenM. But I suggest that You Too try meeting people(including platonic) online.

I agree with your sentiment entirely, maybe not the technique. Focus on the long term? I can see why you would say that. We Aspies tend to miss the bigger picture. However I made friends and other goals by doing precisely the opposite: Focusing on smaller short terms goals breaking it up in to smaller obtainable steps. I think it is because the bigger picture is ambiguous to us that we might be better doing the opposite. The idea of this great big f**k off wall of an unobtainable future, is the one thing that has always held me back and still does. The few times I kept my cool, I realised that I only ever made progress by focusing on the smaller realistic steps rather than the long term. It is not really surprising every single CBT book I've ever read has said the same, that is were I learnt it from. The problem with the long term is, even if you are well rounded/not bent out of the shape, the future is the future you can't predict it. I bet everyone is guilty of trying to fortune tell. It is fine to have ambition. I'm pretty ambitious. But you can't run before you can walk, the future is ever changing. You will put an unrealistic expectation on yourself, and then feel like a failure when things don't turn out the way you planned (down to the letter). It is a hard habit to break and I still struggle with it to this day.

I think he may have put a great expectation on this one situation turning out they way he wanted, which is pretty understandable. Who wouldn't?

I can even relate to the girl a bit, if what some are saying is true. I find it hard to know if I like someone, and that we would be suitable. As I haven't had experience I'm going to have to take a risk with that. Maybe if thing sweren't so closed book, this sort of thing wouldn't be a problem. If anything the main problem I've had trouble understanding other people is the rules of the game aren't actually that logical and neither are people open/direct. Inherent understanding is what people who have social skills understand without knowing. That is why there is often little point asking them, they do it without thinking.

Say we were to apply CBT to this situation (something I'm pretty complacent with myself as it takes a bit of self discipline and determination) then you could say the following:

FACT: A girl slept in your bed, while you were also in it.

Providing you both old enough to understand a something about consequences, you'd know that someone must feel comfortable to be around you to be able to sleep in your bed with you.

That implies trust and/or attraction. I'm using attraction in the vaguest sense meaning, they like your enjoy your company enough to want spend time with you in that situation. So we don't know if she was just intending to 'bunk up' or to spoon/cuddle or get some sort of affection out of it.

So with logical deduction that means:

a. That someone trusts you therefore you are trustworthy
b. That someone is attracted to your prescience therefore your have some attractive qualities.

Ok maybe she realised it wasn't for her. She doesn’t see you as potential b/f. You still know that you can gain someone’s trust and attract them.

How is that a mixed message? It sounds pretty clear.

That's not true at all, just because you're on a bed, doesn't mean you want anything sexual. It's just another way of being close to someone, is lying around with them, sharing a bed. Sex can happen anywhere, if someone is attracted to you physically, it's their words and actions, not their location, that will tell you.

I think he means that they first sent him mixed signals (so he got his hopes up), then told him they just wanted to be friends.

How can one desire to be that close to another without a sexual component? I do not understand this at all...

If I share a bed with a girl, and there is nothing sexual crossing my mind... either I'm dead tired... or she's really not attractive to me. In either case I'd let her sleep in the bed, and I would take the couch or the floor... if nothing sexual was going to happen... or I didn't want anything sexual to happen.

But you are saying that it can happen where a man and a woman share a bed and get that close to each other without a sexual side of it? I may be simple in my physical needs or something, because being that close to someone would automatically trigger a sense of intimate closeness.

Exactly. IF the woman sees you as just a friend, it is not approprate to sharing a bed together and being that intimate.

Guys do not share beds with their guys friends, and the same should go if you are friends with the opposit sex.

Having friends with the opposit sex only works if both are not attracted to each other anyway.

Uhmmmm, thats not quite accurate zee. Accepting an invitation to get in the same bed with a guy you are supposedly platonic with is really walking a fine line......EVEN IF neither person takes the clothes off. In fact, her getting into the same bed with KenM and THEN saying afterwards certainly was sending mixed messages! Had I been her and only wished to be nothing more than platonic I would have DECLINED the invitation. Not only to be very clear to him about how I felt but getting into the same bed with another guy-even if your clothes are still on-can send the message that you want to get physical with him. By that I mean, cuddling, making out, and all-out shagging. The first gf I had, well the first time I met her in the flesh at a cafe(from printed personals)she invited me back to her appartment. The 2nd time I came over to her appartment and sat on the same bed with her and took her hand....she held on. So its really impossible to ascertain what she was actually thinking and feeling at the time. If she was just doing it to be nice........well then she was going way to far IMO.

Few women, if any, will flat out tell you "I want to have sex with you."

Us men have to take the hints and go with it. When a woman agrees to share a bed with a man, especially one she knows likes them, I do not know of any more of a blatant hint then that, outside of her taking her clothes off and giving you a jump.

well, an even more blatant one would be for her to take your clothes off - but you're right, if she's getting into bed with a man she knows likes her, that's a very blatant invitation for sex. Same sex heterosexual friends past puberty don't normally share a bed, if she just wanted friendship then she shoulnd't have gotten into bed with him, a heterosexual man.

I must say I'm jealous that you can get girls to let you touch their feet. I wish I could do that....

That also proves you must be doing something right. The most contact I ever have with female friends is hugs, so it seems to me women can feel pretty comfortable around you.

It also doesn't seem to me like she was intending to hurt you. I think you've just been dealt a hand of bad luck in your romantic life. In other words, it doesn't seem to be you that's the problem, but that you've been going for the wrong women.

I have tryed internet dating. Not had the best of luck. The few people that I went out with, we had a few dates. I thought we had a good time. Then they did not call me or anything. No explaination or anything. I would think after a few dates they would at least have the courtisy to tell you its not going to work out or anything. But because its the internet they think its ok just not to say anything.

I've had that same result, except I haven't even gotten any dates... just talking over IM. The conversation just fizzles, I once asked someone out... and she said yes... but later when I was trying to set up a date it all kind of fell apart somehow.

Then I see them online often, but I don't really want to talk with them all the time. Actually that's wrong, I don't want to talk all the time since it might seem 'desperate'... okay so I don't. But then it probably seems like I'm not interested in them...

One girl communicated with me, I thought she was really interested in me. But her IM always said away, so I never bothered to contact her over IM... and so I didn't communicate with her for a week or so. Now she hasn't responded to my email... she seemed like a really neat person too... someone I could really get along with.

I hate IM and email, it is so informal and constricted....

You know what KenM, it could very well be that you're using the wrongs sites. All I can say is: move on, keep trying, dont give up. You're just gonna have to be patient .

I'm sorry that this has happened. You seem to have had rotten luck with women.
We aren't all bad...

Agreed.



I agree again. I don't see how you were lied to.

Plus, Ken, the fact a woman wanted to sleep in your bed with you means you're nowhere near as unattractive as you've painted yourself on this forum. Things probably aren't as bad as you think.