Date gift

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Ah... you know. I think you're right.

Best Date Gift. Ever.

I met a guy online, we talked, decided we just HAD to meet, and planned to spend a day together. He showed up at my apartment with a CD he had burned for me. He said "I burned you a delicious CD"...this was when Napoleon Dynamite had just come out. It had Ryan Adams, Martin Sexton, Counting Crows...we shared a taste in good music.

We listened to it as we drove to the Thai restaurant and the art museum. I swooned!

So, yeah, don't get something that costs anymore than a single flower, but if you share something that's important to both of you, (like art, music, etc.), that might really be something special.

Honestly though, I felt bad, because I certainly hadn't made anything for him. It was kind of strange, b/c it's not a norm.

Roguetech, your post can be summed up as the following: You classify some of the theories of human interaction in this thread as too depressing to entertain so you reject them. [You know - this shows that maybe you are participating in the deceit that is dating, but you just don't realize it ] You believe that giving a gift is the best way you should proceed for reasons you can't enumerate, so you shall.

Fine, so be it. But there's not much more to discuss other than the game.

This is 100% true. However - they are just as arbitrary as almost any thing else you do. The fact that you take a shower every day is arbitrary. No action has an intrinsic value associated with it, they are all assigned by us arbitrarily.

Example: Compare the act of shaking someone's hand upon meeting them against the courtship ritual. They are both equally nonsensical. But why do you participate in the first one but rail against the second? Let's say you're introduced to some random person you don't care about in the slightest. They extend their hand towards you. You don't really feel like shaking hands, but you do it anyway. Did you just deny your true self? Would it be better to do as you feel and not shake it? I mean if your friends think less of you, then so be it - at least you weren't fake.

My question to you is - why do you feel action generated by emotion is arbitrarily better than action generated by logic?

hmm. Haven't had time to properly consider your words, bbut... Shaking hands is a reaction. In general, I would balance how uncomftable it would me to shake hands versus how uncomfortable it wouild make someone else to not shake hands. Certainly I know people who refuse to do so. Doesn't bother me much, so I shake. However, I don't offer to shake. In other words, we all must react in some way to others actions. If I were on the other side, and a date gave me a gift, I would have to accept or reject it, says thanks or something.

I don't see how any of these alternatives would necessarily be decieving. It seems to me that dating consists of carefully hiding who you are, while trying to learn who the other is. One important tenant is to not admit how much you may or may not like the other, until some magical moment when both try to convinve each other how very much they do. It is not necissarily the social conventions around dating that are there to protect safety (or maybe other purpose), so long as people remember the original purpose (and I actually know what the convention is). It's the ones that say not to be ourselves (while, of course being told "just be yourself"). Giving a gift falls into that catagory. I would do it later in a relationship... If there is something I know would be appropriate to the individual, and it is a special occasion (i.e. first date), then why not? Because it might make me look desparate... in other words, like them too much. And I hate it when people like me enough to show kindness!

To answwer your question.... The actions I so detest are those not "generated" by emotion or logic, but by social conventions that the participants don't understand the why, or often no more than a vague should.

The literal answer would be becuase I can more easily understand actions driven by logic .

A gift on a first date is way to forward. If you go to dinner or a movie or whatever, just pay the entire bill (without comment). That's gift enough AND socially appropriate.

Paying for a meal seems to me to be more inappropriate than a small gift. How is paying a couple bucks on a token more forward than paying twenty on a meal, especially since both she and I know she problably makes triple what I do?

Well, our first date was postponed (mentioned above), and we kinda had difficulities (i.e. I was a bonehead, and kinda screwed things up). But we're back to talking and have scheduled another first date. Because of all the goofiness therein, I won't be bringing a "gift" gift since it would seem like an apology gift or something like that. However, I'm going to give her a cookie... It's kind of a running thing.

The cookie sounds like a cute idea. I hope your date goes well.

Hey, I don't write the rules of the NT world, but that's traditionally how men and women behave on a first date in the western world. If she's progressive and wants to pay, she'll let you know (although you should decline her first offer if it is made). A little help here ladies...

ummk. I try to pay. If she tries to pay, tell her no, but only once. Got it.

Got that covered already, actually. Meeting for coffee, and I'll be getting there before her (to avoid the whole awkward "You her?" prosopagnosia thing...), and she mentioned awhile back what she drinks. Thank God for messenger logs. "Why yes, I remember exactly what you drink from when you mentioned three weeks ago!"

You are correct.

I know it doesn't make any sense, and to be honest, I don't get it either, but that's reality. Most men and women not only behave like this, but expect this kind of behavior. Think of it like two birds doing a mating dance. That's about the long and short of it. We're not trying to tell you that your first impulse (giving a gift) is a stupid idea, rather we're trying to tell you that most of the western world does it differently, and if you wish to be successful, there's nothing wrong with emulating their take on things; even if you don't understand or agree with it. We just want you to have a good experience.

As a general rule, getting a girl a gift for a first date is a bad idea no matter how nice or thoughtful it may be. Girls are creeped out by this and prefer that you have not thought about them and the possibility of a relationship too much so early on.

Well, this was not a fair test of whether a "date gift" is a good idea, since the cookie was not only a "special" thing between us, but was also, apparently, actually expected. I also gave her a book (Asperger's Syndrom: A Love Story), but that was honestly "I've read it... You want it?" type thing. (With a warning that the guy in the book has little in common with me.) Nonetheless, both were well recieved.

Oh, and I got her drink (before she ever got there), and she bought dinner. Also, the date went well .

I'd definitely recommend paying for the meal on the first date. To me, getting coffee is more like an audition though, so you wouldn't necessarily have to pay. It's kind of "no pressure, let's see if we get along in person". If not, no one owes anyone anything. BUT when you call to ask for the first REAL date, make sure you pay. It can help avoid the slippage into the friendship zone, if you are serious about pursuing a romantic relationship with this woman. Also, should the coffee segue into additional time spent together (like getting dinner or seeing a movie), I would pick that up, and consider the time spent a date. Picking up the tab sends the "I LIKE like you" message. Down the road, if you're going to rotate who pays or each pay for yourself, that's fine. But initially, that arrangement can lend some ambiguity.