Men and their desire to speak for women

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Well, rampant promiscuity in Western Society in general is the primary reason why sexually transmitted deseases of all kinds are still on the increase.

Oh, I understand perfectly.

You expect only your own subjective revisionism of reality to establish the definition of "cheating." Really, Hali, you do not decide for the world how the world will behave, and you can not decide for me what I will believe.

That your beliefs have no objective value makes them less than irrelevant.

^You're quite right about that RogueProcess. BTW Fnord, WHERE did you get your definition of cheating? Did you just come up with it yourself? If you did than understand that manufacturing definitons of standarized(non-slang)words is very bad form. Furthermore this is an Opinion of yours rather than a fact; and its an opinion which I Vehemently disagree with.

Sounds to me like your ego is leaking out of your as*hole.

I agree.

But it depends on the relationship, if you want to sleep around then you should call it an open or causual relationship. If you have a commited relationship with somebody you shouldn't cheat on them.

Okay ... I can go along with that ... in principle ...

Unfortunately, a committed relationship based solely on mutual consent is open to change without prior notification by either party - if the notification ever occurs at all.

How many of these so-called "committed-by-mutual-consent" relationships are actually semi-open? That's where both parties have agreed by mutual consent only, but that one of the parties is less "committed" than the other.

If I have a commited relationship with someone I do not need marrage to stop me from cheating.

If a girlfriend has a commited relationship with me and cheats on me, in my book she is a ho bag. She would really hurt my feelings and yeah I'd have to dump her because I couldn't trust her. It is a different if there is not yet any commitment.

It is a bit of a tough one, because if you tell someone that you want an open relationship or causual relationship because you don't know if you really like them yet (which I think is fair enough). They may dissmiss you right from the start because they will assume you are a man whore or slut.

It is a bit of a grey area. The right thing to do is be open and honest about it. Prehaps date someone a bit before you get in the sack with them.

Could make an interesting thread disscussion.

Evidence please?

Sorry Bub, but YOU have no grounds for calling yourself an authority on dating rules *in general*. I really hope you can learn
the difference between fact and opinion.I do happen to have very strong OPINIONS about this and you can better believe Im gonna be up your ass about this until you show me some REAL WORLD basis for your definition(s)!

On the whole cheating question, it doesn't matter about being married or not. If you make a promise to someone, in this case being the form of a relationship that's not specified as being open or casual, it's wrong to break it. Plain and simple. Sure, one is only bound by their own conscience and reputation rather than by any legal authority, but if fear of punishment is all that's motivating a person not to do wrong by others, rather than simply respect for other people's feelings and potentially health in this case, said individual probably shouldn't have an exclusive relationship with anyone until they learn not to be so selfish. Why would you enter an exclusive relationship anyways if you weren't ready for the whole monogamy thing, or at least why not break it off before you went to hook up with someone else? Doing rather pointless damage if you ask me.

That is your opinion.


See above.


As do I.


Really? Does your girlfriend know about your anal fixation?


What do you want? Have you never watched shows like Jerry Springer, José Luis Sin Censura, or even (*BLECH*) Oprah or (*BARF*) Dr. Phil?

Have you never been 'cheated on'? Or have you just been too headblind to notice?

Have you never been divorced or dumped for another guy?

Here are some things to look for that indicate she has someone on the side:

She becomes autonomous, moving away from your little two-person unit, dropping the word "we" from her vocabulary in favor of "I," does more things on her own, and stops consulting you about future plans. Her life becomes all about her ... and maybe someone else.

She becomes physically abusive, pushing you away or even hitting you. Be careful, she may be trying to provoke you into striking out at her. If you do, expect to be arrested. This will give her more than enough cause to 'break up' with you without it seeming to be her fault. Of course, there will be someone else waiting to take her in and protect her.

She deflects simple questions about her actions or whereabouts when you're apart, refuses to answer the simplest and fairest of questions, or answers questions only after repeating them back to you, which usually indicates a mind that's searching for a lie to cover up her "indiscretions." She will even become defensive, and openly question your trust in her ... as if daring you to make an accusation.

She has a mysterious friend that inches his way into the picture, and is hesitant to share any general details about him, much less introduce you - a "justafriend," perhaps.

She has no interest in sex with you, it's all a bit iffy, you're rarely hitting the sheets, and you're only doing so if and when she feels like it. She may suddenly become bored by your performance and appears to be distracted when you do have sex.

She nags you incessantly; every sentiment you express sets her off and she finds any excuse to lash out at you. What used to make her giggle girlishly now triggers no reaction, or causes her to grimace and/or make a deprecating remark about you.

She no longer wants to attend your family's functions or hang with your friends. She may also have nothing good to say about any of them, and shows a general lack of concern for their problems. Paradoxically, she may also encourage you to spend more time with your family and friends as long as she doesn't have to go along, leaving her with more time for someone else...

She puts more effort into looking sexy, while not caring about your opinion on the matter. After all, it's someone else's opinion that has become more important.

She's secretive about her schedule, and claims to no longer have time for any extracurricular activities with you, yet she has one foot out the door the minute one of her “girlfriends” calls. Either that or she has been "going away on business" without disclosing her itinerary to you, or if she does, then it’s at the last minute. She may also “forget” to include you in her plans when she’s actually just leaving you out.

You become irrelevant. The only thing worse than a girlfriend who nags you about absolutely everything is one who stops noticing that you're even alive. Suddenly, she stops caring if you don't go somewhere with her; she'll just find “somebody else” with whom to go. Also, she no longer places the same importance on what you think and what you do as she once did, especially on things that directly affect the relationship.

Good luck.

Last edited by Fnord on 31 Jul 2008, 11:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

For the record I certainly HAVE watched Jerry Spring quite a bit in fact back in the day. Lemme put it this way pal: I cannot control how the rest of the world behaves but I sure as bloody hell CAN control how I behave! That being said, I have decided that I Refuse to date people who think that marriage is the only kind of committed relationship-IOW those who think that promiscuity and dishonesty are acceptable behaviours in a non-marital committed relationship. Hows that for ya? I regard your promulgation of the rules to be nothing more than your personal opinion until you show me some evidence otherwise. I have spoken to a number of people on this issue and MORE THAN ONE of them regard sexual infidelity towards a bf/gf as cheating. You seem to think its ok but I sure as f*****g hell DONT, and Im not alone .

I do not think dishonesty and promiscuity are acceptable behaviors in a commtted relationship. But I also believe that any 'committment' short of a legal marriage is merely a shared delusion. If you are committed, then you'll marry the girl. If you don't marry her, then you're not fully committed.

Half-committed relationships rarely last long.

In my personal life, no woman has ever expressed an interest in marrying me . Moreover, women have often accused me of being possessive and controlling; b*****s . The thing is, I view marriage as being a legal agreement primarily for the purposes of *domestic benefits* AND child-rearing. AFAIC, if there is no commitment before marriage its highly likely there will be infidelity during marriage. I hope you see my point: those who think promiscuity is ok outside of marriage and are ONLY willing to commit when this symbolic legal agreement is ratified are people who dont take relationships seriously and are unlikely to stick out a marriage "until death do us part".The institution of marriage is was set up to be more of a business transaction; people put jhe idealistic spin on it that its a symbol of love to make it sound more appealing since these days we are free to choose who we marry but that wasnt its original purpose.

Well, there's your problem. You call women who don't like to be dominated by you "b*****s," thus displaying your contempt for women who refuse to be possessed and controlled by you. It's no wonder they don't express interest in marrying you.


Ah yes, the old "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" excuse. Remember, it works both ways; if she can put up with you, then her own out-of-pocket expenses are reduced. Live-in arrangements are more about about economics than committment. Marriage involves actual committment.


In reality, the marriage is the committment, and sex outside of a relationship is just as likely to occur with or without marriage. The main difference being that in a marriage, the aggrieved party has the recourse of divorce and alimony. 'Girlfriends' don't have that, so their boyfriends can hold financial dependency over their heads as another means of control.


I see your point, and it is wrong. I take relationships very seriously; but I'm also very realistic about relationships. That's why I'm married to an Asian woman. Mutual respect as human beings is as important in her native culture as it is to me. Ours is not a leader/follower, dominant/submissive, or master/servant relationship (like many American/American relationships). Instead, it is more like a duet; sometimes one takes the lead and the other provides the support; sometimes both work together in harmony; and sometimes one works solo while the other looks on and waits their turn to act.


Not all marriages are based on money, and not all marriages are based on love. In fact, love and money are not mutually exclusive. It is just as easy to fall in love with a poor person as it is to fall in love with a wealthy one, although this also depends on the charitable and mercenary qualities of both parties involved.

Marriage is an expression of love and committment. Divorce is an expression of contempt and abandonment. Merely living together lies somewhere in between - not fully committed, yet afraid of being alone.

Real commitment is marriage. Anything less is pretense and delusion.

Very well then, might I add: If I were engaged to be married to somone and she told me that she'd been sleeping around with other men when we were bf/gf and that until our wedding day she would continue this behaviour I SERIOUSLY would consider calling off the engagement because quite honestly Fnord, I could never truly trust someone who thinks and acts that way. PERIOD. You can go on and on to me about what the "rules" are(since you have yet to show me a sample of standarized rules about dating here in the US where I live)but I if I met a female who interprets the rules the way you do I WOULD NOT marry her because in truth I wouldnt fully trust her. But I agree that a relationship involves mutual respect between 2 people but I DO have the right to decide how I want to be treated in a relationship so YOUR ideas about what the rules are apply to you and you wife but Not I . I honestly have no real desire to control people, I simply want to AVOID people who dont share my views on this particular subject. In conclusion: I cannot decide or dictate for others how they behave, but I Can decide what Im willing to put up with.