I don't want to date poor people

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Women shouldn't be blamed for these sorts of things (and neither should men), but when you cite specific examples, it sounds like that's what you're doing. If your dating experience is limited and predominantly bad (you seem to be hinting at that--I'm not assuming it), then your personal experience may be having a stronger impact on your point of view than it would if you have had a more varied, more-or-less positive experience.

The pressure on a woman to make babies (whether she wants to or not) is tremendous; perhaps if women are searching for men who make more, it's at least in part because they want to be sure they don't end up on welfare. As you pointed out, many people want someone who makes about the same as they do, but many men would feel emasculated by women who make more than they. Of course, it's not all about the money; it's about commonalities that can also come from similar education and social status, and again, that's basically a universal thing that has existed for a very long time.

Women shouldn't be blamed for these sorts of things (and neither should men), but when you cite specific examples, it sounds like that's what you're doing. If your dating experience is limited and predominantly bad (you seem to be hinting at that--I'm not assuming it), then your personal experience may be having a stronger impact on your point of view than it would if you have had a more varied, more-or-less positive experience.

The pressure on a woman to make babies (whether she wants to or not) is tremendous; perhaps if women are searching for men who make more, it's at least in part because they want to be sure they don't end up on welfare. As you pointed out, many people want someone who makes about the same as they do, but many men would feel emasculated by women who make more than they. Of course, it's not all about the money; it's about commonalities that can also come from similar education and social status, and again, that's basically a universal thing that has existed for a very long time.

Being around too much bad news, too much anger, too much negative "energy" isn't good for anyone. I think often of my older brother who keeps a certain news channel on in the background almost all day; I think it's not the only reason he can be such a pessimistic, bitter grump, but it sure doesn't help at all. He's retired now and I think it's more important than ever that he finds more hobbies that take him away from the TV.

I'm not really talking about feelings of loss but about actual loss. When she rejects him she will not feel a loss, but she will actually lose the chance to be with a great guy. And the guy may feel loss when she rejects him, but he will actually win something in the long run: not being with a woman who resents him for being poor. I know men who have wifes who resents them for being poor, and believe me it would have been best for them if these women would have rejected them in the first place. It would have saved them decades of misery.

No, he wins. He doesn't have to be with a shallow, materialistic woman. And she should feel guilty. She can't love a man because he's poor?! WTF?! That's like saying you can't love someone because they're black or short or tall or green eyed or something else the person has no control over.

If I had the money to support us both I'd have no problem dating a poor girl. Hell, I'd be happy for her to not work at all if she'd rather be hobby-orientated then spending her life slaving away at a job that brings her no gratification for money we don't need.

A shame I don't have that money though.

Marshall, do you think it would be better if only one member of a couple worked while the other concentrated on housework?

Most of the negative feelings I get reading this thread come from this constant talk of the rat-race. It's this notion that everything we do in life must be a means to an end, the end being the gaining of social status. I mean, what kind of people are motivated this way? Not interesting people in my book. People who define themselves and put such great importance on their career are not interesting people in my book. Having a fancy degree does not automatically make people intellectually interesting. Intellectually interesting people are curious. Status-driven automatons are boring. People who do things solely for the purpose of making money and "impressing girls" are boring to me. I'm no interested in social status. It's f*****g boring to me. Incurious people who pride themselves in their "work ethic" and judge anyone who doesn't are boring. If I am forced into this game I will consider suicide. I'm serious. I don't owe this sterile world s**t. My only option is to find what makes me happy. I can't tolerate being unhappy. I mean, what the hell is the point of living? People are expected to waste more than half of their waking life "working", for what? I understand why the lemming herd pushes "work ethic", yea, the world would fall apart if nobody worked. Of course they are programmed to shame those who hate modern "work". They are part of the machine's function. What I don't get is that we work just for the sake of working. I don't understand why people don't just threaten suicide strike. Maybe the capitalist overlords will think twice if people would rather die than live the life they foist upon people.

ah, well, I'll tell you the honest truth...my story...

I was raised to not look at money when determining who to date...so that's how I thought I should be. I dated a few guys who were either middle class or upper class (we were middle class, I thought...maybe a little upper, just didn't show it much) and I hated the fact that they felt that class had a major impact on whom they decided to date. Fact is, it seemed that I just couldn't deal with someone like that...although they had no problem with me.

Eventually, out of all the guys that I could have married, I married the poorest...he was raised poor and was poor when we met. I helped him get a better job, etc...I supported our home for many years...eventually, he did much better...we actually get along pretty well...our major issues in our relationship? MONEY! Yes, his family has always hated me and been jealous of what I had, how I grew up, how WE together lived thanks to me, etc...his ex-wife even more, of course, she was lower class and actually, a big loser...Everyday I realize more how much I've had to give up, how much our son has had to sacrifice because of this...and yes, I do love my husband...but if I had to do it all again, I can tell you that marriages are difficult enough without having the family jealous of you, how you live, how you were raised...it's as if we couldn't have anything nice without them attempting to take it from us, to ask us for stuff (they all just have babies and sit on their behinds), etc...and life is too short to have people like that in your life. I'm not saying that I need someone to support me, or that I want someone rich...but I think that our life would have been much easier if his family was at least as well off as mine, etc...as that jealousy, constant attempting to make us feel bad for living well, or worse, doing anything they could to take away from us has truly drained our relationship and we now have ended up with the choice of our son having no contact with ANYONE in his family to keep him away from the jealousy, etc...we can't have a dinner together and talk about a vacation without the snobby remarks, etc...and believe me, I am NOT a snob. I worked my behind off for 20yrs to have what I had...it's mostly gone thanks to the jealousy of his family and ex and of course, the fact that his crappy family never taught my husband how to balance a checkbook, how to have a decent life, etc...it's taken years for him to finally understand and we are now 42yrs old...the only reason I have remained is because he is very good to our son and our son loves him dearly...otherwise, the nightmare of his jealous family, ex and kid he has with his ex (who of course, lives better than us now because although her mom is a loser, the courts make him pay her as if she deserved it and not our son...of course, I SACRIFICED myself, my income to give him that better job, he would have never had that job if he had remained with the loser he was married to before...)...etc...

So, my advice, continue to do what you are doing. This does NOT mean you have to be mean to people who have less than you...honestly, as my husband, he is a very nice person...not his fault he had such crappy parents that never taught him how to balance a checkbook, etc...but just tell them you're not interested...

Good luck...sorry for being brutally honest...and anyone else who may be offended...but the more you have in common with how you were raised with your spouse/girlfriend, etc...the better your relationship will be...

Problem is, most "normal" men and women want someone to go the conformist route and achieve whatever the heck "success" is.

I even see MANY aspie women here express disinterest in aspie men not "working on overcoming their difficulties" when they REALLY mean joining the rat race, studying and working towards a career.

Everything you have said is spot on and I share your opinion on everything here.

But I am also still realistic.

Almost every person in my life I've met against the rat race in the way you describe either have severe mental illnesses I can't handle, traumatic backgrounds and no 'ambition' in other areas, or the severely disabled/low functional/can't dress themselves let alone work.

You appear to believe anyone who subscribes to t conformist way of life regarding education and career must he a superficial person not worth dating.

The grim reality is that most of them are average, ordinary people, and want to only date someone else who can live up to averageness.

Also, average is average and so will beost people you encounter in your life.

I don't think you can evaluate a person on a linear scale like....

below average < average < above average

That's just moronic. People have strengths and weaknesses in different areas. I'm probably in the top 1% in terms of intelligence, yet I'm simply "below average" on the rat-race scale. Imbeciles like Donald Trump are "above average". You know there are plenty of rich imbeciles who are good at gaming the system and ripping others off but not much else? They are considered "ambitious" and "successful".

Average can be boring too. I guess average and boring is better than someone "below average" due to being broken by their weakest link. Being good at the rat race is all that counts.