I don't want to date poor people

Post Reply New Topic

I would certainty don't want to marry someone like her even if she grants me the Swedish citizenship.

Wow. At least when an aspie is overly judgmental they'll just come right out and say it and we can avoid them sooner haha

@Outrider

I'm not disagreeing with you, just venting.

The problem is the phenomenon exists statistically. It isn't just a single anecdote. There are more men are more willing to financially support women than women willing to financially support men. It doesn't apply to every woman, but it applies to a lot. It doesn't mean men are better than women. I think the majority of both men and women have superficial concerns and conform to cultural forces that aren't really rational or fair. Heterosexual men complain about women because heterosexual men try to date women, not other men. Women aren't any more shallow than men are, but they aren't perfect angels either. 95% of people are shallow it seems, regardless of gender.


But many women seem to want babies. Not wanting children is often a complete dealbreaker. Dating is difficult for guys who don't want children.

Also, I just really doubt that concern for children is the real issue in most cases. If that was the case, you wouldn't see so many women having children despite not having an income. So many people just do not think ahead at all. It really does seem to come down to cultural character judgements. Of course, nobody will admit it.

As for commonalities being based on money and career, again shallowness. It is an unfair generalization that lumps everyone into one-dimensional categories. I think this is the problem with dating these days, especially online dating. People disregard a potential date based on one-dimensional dealbreakers before they even get to know a person. In real life people can have a long conversation and realize they really like each other without even bringing up work or income. Only on dating profiles do they force you to share negative personal information right up front. Answering "don't want to say" to such questions only implies the worst.

It's not just girls that overfilter either. I'm sure guys are guilty too. I often filtered people who answered questions in a way I didn't like because it gave a negative/judgemental impression to me. The truth might be people don't put a whole lot of thought into answering questions and have one dimensional assumptions in mind. After a while I just had to stop viewing the "answers to questions" on profiles. If I read them all I wouldn't message anyone.

It sure it! I've dated women who go on about how cute babies are and how they want kids and it's so annoying!

It's one thing for a woman to want you to be the main breadwinner for the two of you but add a kid into the mix? Kids cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to raise!

They want kids but do they save their money for when they have kids? No. I've met so many young women who spend all their money on holidays. They show me pictures of them in Russia and India and Paris. I'm not talking about backpackers, I mean they travel expensively. Some of them spend tens of thousands of dollars. And then they want a guy to go on their next holiday with them? No thanks! I don't want to spend all my money just so I can spend two weeks in Europe. If I have leave from work I want to spend it relaxing at home not being stressed out with travel.

And think of how much weddings cost! $20,000 or $30,000! The father of the bride doesn't always pay for it nowadays. So much money spent on one day that could buy you a higher standard of living for a year. That much money could be the deposit on your first home but instead you're expected to spend it on making some wedding planner rich.

And then there's paying for the honeymoon. And I absolutely detest people who have their wedding in a foreign country and then expect the guests to pay their own way there.

I hate it when, just because you've got a middle class job, women expect you to buy them jewelry while saving up so the two of you can see pair of you can see Paris while also saving up for the deposit on your first home (while paying rent at the same time) while also saving up for your $30,000 wedding (no her $30,000 wedding. Wedding day is all about her).

Then she wants you to give her a kid. Huge expense! The expenses start before she even gives birth. There's lamaze classes and weird vitamin pills and hospital fees. You have to spend so much money babyproofing your house. You have weird gates and latches everywhere so that your once sophisticated house now looks like Peewee's Playhouse. Forget about sophistication while being a parent. You have to take on an incredibly mature responsibility while also being surrounded by ridiculous immature preschool stuff.

So you're paying for another dependant. Food, school expenses, etc. If you marry a religious woman she'll expect you to pay thousands per year to send the kid to a religious school (on top of tithing (the tithe is based on gross income, not net, I checked)).

She'll want you to save for the kid's college fund while you're still paying off your own college debt. If you had to pay your own college while waiting tables and amassing debt, why shouldn't your kid have the same experience? Why should he or she party up on campus while you pay for it?

And some women actually want more than one kid! They actually want two or three! That's more food, more medical expenses, more saving up for them to go to college, more fees for their private religious school.

And she still wants you to take her on holidays, with kids in tow. Now holidays are more expensive because you're paying for airfares and accommodation for 5 people instead of 2. And forget about seeing a Parisian burlesque show or something like that, when you get there, you spend all of your time doing kids stuff. Going to tacky theme parks or condescending edutainment venues. You have to find a resort with a kids area. You have to watch them all the time. Having kids in tow makes a holiday into work instead of rest.

Remember guys, that nowadays the modern sensitive guy is expected to do his share of the housework and parenting work. Even if said guy has a middle class job with high stress and long hours and even if his partner doesn't. Should you split the housework 50/50 when you work full time and she doesn't? If she's unemployed is it ok to expect her to do the cooking and cleaning? NO! Because now she said you said cooking and cleaning is woman's work and she accuses you of using gender stereotypes. She'll ignore your arguments that you said cooking and cleaning is the work of whomever doesn't have paid employment.

In my dating experience, the girl will expect your house to be very clean. Marshall, I think you mentioned this earlier. When you're living alone, it can be hard to keep a house tidy when you're working 8 or more hours per day (plus commuting) to build a good career.

The girls who accuse me of being messy typically live with their parents. It must be so easy for them. They think because my job pays more than theirs it means I'm rich but they forget, I pay rent, they don't (that's why I get mad when they want me to go on holiday with them. Saving up to go to Europe is much easier when you live rentfree with your parents).

To get a girl you have pay rent on your home and keep it clean. Forget about getting a girl while you're living with your parents. I never had a girlfriend while I was living with my mum. It really helps to have the privacy of your own place. Sexytimes are much easier managed when you don't have parents or siblings in the same house. When it comes to dating, the privacy of your own house is priceless.

I'm almost tempted to pretend to be poor so I don't get women who expect me to go on holidays or pay for our kids to go to medical school. The trouble is, if I pretend to be poor that means the pool of women who'll date me shrinks to about 10% as many. I know because when I was younger I was actually poor.

On OKC there are profiles of women saying they'll only date a man with a good job. You have to wonder, why do they want a man with a good job? What do they want to do with his money?

From my experience, in the UK, women who say that also have good jobs. It's not about the money (least not how you're thinking), it's about a serious, career-orientated, materialist-consmerist mindset that they're looking for to go with the one they have.

As it happens, these are not My Kind Of People, so I don't look to get in with them or move amongst them. But that's what that remark would usually mean.

The problem is, is that this is average.

Most N.T.'s tend to live this way.

They're earning the degree, then getting a career in their chosen field, or at the least have a job of some kind they're doing decent at and promoted at a reasonable pace.

I'd say at least 75% of the general population in most developed countries is like this.

In various countries the high school graduation rate is about 80-95%, so not graduating high school is 'less than average'.

I realistically assume most people want someone at the same 'level' as them regarding education, career, work ethic, independence away from home, etc.

So if you can't live up to these people's expectations, it'll only make 'dating' harder.

Marshall is right, men tend to be more accepting of supporting a woman than vice-versa, but men can be just as superficial.

I've noticed men tend to value physical attractiveness over income, work ethic, career, etc. and women potentially the opposite - once they get to know a good guy they might not have initially been attracted to physically, they can develop a physical attraction because they fell in love for him due to his good personality.

So by not being able to be that person, the one who gets the degree, the career, moves out at 20 and is driving and otherwise independent in all manners of life, the majority of the population already rule us out.

And what's left? The other 25%.

Who is this 25%?

If I were to make pure guesses, no statistics but just a guess:

- Regular NEETs. Trying to find work, or study, or otherwise trying to make an effort to live a normal life.

- NEETs with disabilities that make life harder, trying their best to live a normal life. Aka MANY of us.

- Unambitious N.T. NEETs simply disinterested in education and a career. Likely dropped out of high school. The physically and mentally healthy NEETs in this category are the kind that willingly choose to just smoke marijuana and play video games all day, etc. Though they are rarely mentally and physically healthy. They may be obese and not take care of their health and hygiene. They may abuse illicit subtances for the 'kick' when it's damaging their brain and development. Some hippy and goth and punk types of people fall into this category, but not all.

- Hippies, punks, goth types.

- Alternative lifestyle types, e.g. living 'off-the-grid' or in communal hippy camps. Hackers. Underground types. Etc.

- The affluently wealthy, self-made or old money/never has to work a day in their life types.

- The severely disabled to the point they cannot work or study let alone get dressed.

- Criminals, e.g. the imprisoned kind.

- Downright low-lifes e.g. the family is high in substance abuse, poverty, criminality, uneducation, lower-class workers, untreated mental illness, young and pregnant etc. Most of my family, and the lower-middle class girls in high school who I always ended up attracted to or always ended up interested in me. Trailer trash, white trash, etc. all fall into this category.

- The mentally ill to the point they require spending their life in mental hospitals.

So, gents.

That's our dating pool if we can't be on-par with today's regular middle class women (which, often, they leave us in the dust). And I doubt the affluently wealthy women would ever give us a chance.

Of course, some of the categories overlap sometimes, and these categories aren't always absolute, but guidelines.

Problem is half of the women I'm seeing on dating sites are suppose to be on par with me. Ie they work min wage jobs(retail, fast food,etc) yet they also demand a guy have a good job, car, own place. Even though they themselves don't have a good job or own place. Most the women at my work are dating or married up, i.e. The guy has a better job and makes more. Doesn't seem to be any unemployed or disabled women on dating sites here. In fact their all so great, talented, educated, have jobs even if min wage, traveled a lot, etc.

So when the poor women will only take middle class guys, what do the poor men do?

Really feels hopeless like any males who make min wage or less should just die, we are just a burden to society. Not even any gangs around here to join. Doubt I'd fit in in a gang anyways. But atleast gang member make good money and attract women.

Also outsider, I rather find punk and goth girls cute, whole colored short hair. But even they consider me not good enough.

According to both polls:
viewtopic.php?t=326838&p=7274748#p7274748
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=326877&start=15&view=viewpoll

it is more preferred by most people to be seen as SEX OBJECT, than as WALLET OBJECT.

and I agree with the majority, being a wallet object in the eye of 'partner' is the worst scenario.

Sly - There simply aren't the numbers for all the poor women to get middle class men, outside of the possibility that a lot of women are holding out for such a man (and will never bag one). The sucky thing is that poor men get girlfriends all the time. Their lack of money doesn't stand in the way, at least round here.

Outrider :

I don't think so. I don't think there's the jobs. At least in the UK, there's a lot of overeducated, overqualified people working at low pay jobs, and the average wage is about £500 a week (it varies on where you live, of course - most people in my area would be lucky to bring home 2/3 of that). Housing is extortionate, and any spending power usually comes from ever more debt.

As to the 'pool' - well, yes and no. First, I'd say don't limit yourself, but be reasonable and understanding. If you like someone, and want to make a move (leaving aside matters of context for now), then do so, but just be aware you can get turned down. I came across this the other day, and it made me smile:

Advice to Lovers

The way to get on with a girl
Is to drift like a man in the mist,
Happy enough to be caught,
Happy enough to be dismissed.

Glad to be out of her way,
Glad to rejoin her in bed,
Equally grieved or gay
To learn that she’s living or dead.

- Frank O'Connor

And then of course, there's our good friend Prufrock, who we'll come back to at the end.

But the 'pool'. You're right, to an extent. Context matters, but at heart we're all in the same boat. We want

1) Someone to whom we are attracted (however you conceive of that, however it works for you) who is

2) attracted to us.

What we're all looking for is the overlap.

I'm not cut out for the corporate-materialist-consumerist world that dominates so. I mean, in some ways I think I'd probably be quite good at it, just bullshitting everyone and not taking it seriously for a moment, but it would be wearing. Outside-looking-in, it seems busy and has pretty flashing lights, but also hollow and tedious. Empty vessels, and all that.

I'm lucky in that my 'type' of person, from which I would draw my type of partner, are the weirdos, the 'mentally interesting'. The ones with far more pressing concerns than the latest turns in fashion or the latest gizmo, or who has the flashiest watch or bigger garden. Those people, who surrounded me growing up, were my first experience of a 'wrong planet', of alienation. Mind, I'm not suggesting an autist/NT divide, just that sense that 'boy, something's wrong with me here'. But the 'normal' never appealed. My sympathies to those NDs for whom it does. I've only ever wanted someone with whom I could happily spend a lot of time sharing experiences and places and conversation, a strong sense of sympathy. A thinker and a reader, who had the strength of character to walk their own path.

As promised, some lines from Prufrock. Perhaps the pinnacle of angsty, timid, overthinking men poems, but/and brilliant for that.

And indeed there will be time
To wonder, “Do I dare?” and, “Do I dare?”
Time to turn back and descend the stair,
With a bald spot in the middle of my hair —
(They will say: “How his hair is growing thin!”)
My morning coat, my collar mounting firmly to the chin,
My necktie rich and modest, but asserted by a simple pin —
(They will say: “But how his arms and legs are thin!”)
Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.

For I have known them all already, known them all:
Have known the evenings, mornings, afternoons,
I have measured out my life with coffee spoons;
I know the voices dying with a dying fall
Beneath the music from a farther room.
So how should I presume?

...

And I have known the arms already, known them all—
Arms that are braceleted and white and bare
(But in the lamplight, downed with light brown hair!)
Is it perfume from a dress
That makes me so digress?
Arms that lie along a table, or wrap about a shawl.
And should I then presume?
And how should I begin?

Shall I say, I have gone at dusk through narrow streets
And watched the smoke that rises from the pipes
Of lonely men in shirt-sleeves, leaning out of windows? ...

...

And the afternoon, the evening, sleeps so peacefully!
Smoothed by long fingers,
Asleep ... tired ... or it malingers,
Stretched on the floor, here beside you and me.
Should I, after tea and cakes and ices,
Have the strength to force the moment to its crisis?
But though I have wept and fasted, wept and prayed,
Though I have seen my head (grown slightly bald) brought in upon a platter,
I am no prophet — and here’s no great matter;
I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker,
And I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker,
And in short, I was afraid.

And would it have been worth it, after all,
After the cups, the marmalade, the tea,
Among the porcelain, among some talk of you and me,
Would it have been worth while,
To have bitten off the matter with a smile,
To have squeezed the universe into a ball
To roll it towards some overwhelming question,
To say: “I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all”—
If one, settling a pillow by her head
Should say: “That is not what I meant at all;
That is not it, at all.”

And the miserable thing is: Eliot became an arch-Conservative after such a promising beginning with Prufrock.

Then I am below average. No degree. Got job based on who was hiring at the time rather than choosing a career field.

I know NTs often live as you describe. That's how my cousins live. I am not up to their level. They choose their career. They get that type of degree, then they work in the same field as their degree.

I got a convenient affirmative action hire and I'm far from the top of my field. No wonder I don't get many dates.My wage is not much better. Converted into to your money I only get £622 per week. Housing is extortionate here too. Rent is about a third of my wage. Buying a house is at best a very distant dream and at worst another way for the banks to extort me.

Compared with 30 years ago, housing is much more expensive even after you've adjusted for inflation.

Probably 75% of the population in the US are NOT like that. Approximately 25% of the population in the US earn Bachelor's Degrees.

It is said that at least half the population in the US live paycheck to paycheck---if they get a paycheck at all.

Doesn't seem to stop them from demanding it. There's a growing problem in the USA of single women who can't find men good enough for them. More women graduate college then men. There's something like 5 women to 3 men with college education. Varies city to city.
You're in Europe yes? Totally different from the materialist US. Lots of women in the us are asking where are all the good men. What they mean s the middle class educated men. Not morally good. Lots of studies going on about this. We have like a 50%+ single problem. More and more people are staying single and its growing. Unrealistic standards adds to this I believe. As more and more women demand a educated middle class guy and less and less men are educated middle class the problem will grow.

I went to college and got a 2 year degree but it's hardly a 4 year degree and I don't have a good job from it. I'll be making min wage for rest of my life if I'm lucky enough to keep a job. I won't likely have a car every Again(can't afford it on min wage) I'll never own my own place. Feels crappy knowing that all my good attributes don't mean anything without a good income and car.

Paycheck to pay check is very vague.
A millionaire who spends as much as he makes lives paycheck to paycheck. But he's not the same as someone working min wage at Walmart living pay check to paycheck.

Most middle class people I know live paycheck to paycheck because they overextend themselves. Buying things they can't afford, making payments on multiple cars and boats etc. I'd live like a king off their income becaus i wouldn't overextend myself. I don't need 2-3 cars, atv, boat, multiple big tvs, etc. I save up for things and buy them when I can afford them.

Unlike the OP, Chelsea Clinton said that she doesn't care about money.

....but she has a $10M apartment, had $3M wedding and a $600,000 annual salary as NBC correspondent (but why it's that high?).

I wish I don't care about money as much as her.