Consequences in "why to ask first"

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because it's not like anyone said anything valid in those 23 pages that you might learn something from, surely? i guess you're above such things as learning from the experiences/wisdom of others, then? also, it's a little rude to jump into the middle of a conversation you haven't even been following with your own interjections that have been covered already by the conversation which you would know if you had bothered to actually read the conversation before inserting yourself into it--but hey, manners are overrated on the internet as well as IRL, amirite? so "grats" ( ) on your rudeness.

We have some chronic derailers here who see these things as meaning they're all about to get served with warrants, and go kinda ballistic.

I find actually that a "no" before the touching starts makes it much more likely that "no" is respected. Once a guy's got his hands on you, I find he goes a bit deaf and decides that it's cute or okay or something to ignore or grab a last bit of something before letting go. Plus it's a simple matter of teaching manners, which actually works pretty well. I've seen it even with very small children, who're low on impulse control -- you train them in talking and explaining rather than simply grabbing and whacking each other or throwing fits, and you give them a few scripts to work with, and they start to behave like people instead of tiny brutes.

You have proof of this, or are you just pulling it out of your ass?

then don't teach your kids to not talk to strangers or walk home alone. let them talk to anyone they want, take candy from anyone they want. cause saying they cant' is just blaming the victim if they get kidnapped.

also giving some one adice like no to keep money setting on your set, isn't victim blaming. you haven't had your car broken into yet, so you can't be a victim of a crime that hasn't happen. my friend had his truck broken into for a few pennies, so he told me that i shouldn't keep loose change in my car. I haven't and have never had my car broken into. is this blaming me? is it better to become a victim then take precautions? I take all kids of precautions every day. they don't effect me in any real way. putting my backpack in my trunk instead of my back seat doesn't harm me, but may mean a thief decides that there's nothing of value in my car worth taking the risk of breaking into it. so do as you wish but this is the real world, where certian actions increase your odds of being a victim. its not victim blaming. its just advice. if you choose to feel they are blaming you that that's on you.

like if i'm having a hard time changing my oil and a friend offers to help I can A. see this as him saying I can't do it and am dumb(victim blaming. or B him caring about me and just trying to help.
back in the good days when people were polite you would just say your advice doesn't help. now apparetnly you attack them claim they are anit women and victim blaming. rather then just saying I don't feel that way that was hurtful. or just lettingit roll off your shoulder and going on. I've gotten advice before and thought meh I don't want to do that, then s**t happen. I never saw them as victim blaming me.

over all you are attacking kind caring people who are just trying to help you possbile avoid something bad. all this will do is make people not want to help others. this is exactly what is happening people won't help each other any more, they are mostly just as*holes to each other now and if they see someone in trouble its safer to just not get involved.

but yep lets through every safty precaution out of the window. sign says don't smoke near this pipe, well its might right to smoke where I want. my mom said not to talk to strangers, well its might right to talk to who ever I want, wups now i'm being kidnapped but you better not say well if that kid just hadn't talked to that strange guy in the white van saying he had lost his puppy.

Google "California consent yes means yes" or some combination.

it isn't that is just how you see it. not even every rape victim sees advice as woman blaming. but you do and that's your right to feel that way. but that doesn't mean its true. f**k sake use common sense, which says if something will greatly increase your odds of getting hurt then don't do it. why does it have to be something bad.

so there have ben no cases where a woman was raped cause the guy thought she was asking for it? never, no guy in the history of time has said that ...... even if its just 10% of rapes, that is still possible 10% women/men saved. just like any advice every given it might not help all people, it might not be relevant to all people..

oh guess what I can think the murder is bad and should die, but also think the man who went into the room with a guy holding a bloody knife made a bad choice. you can say hey if we done that we might have avoided ____ and still think the guy who did it is bad.

I don't take risks where I can avoid it. I maintain my car, i drive the speed limit, i don't look down my gun barrel. there are risks to everything in life, i don't see the harm in telling people things that might decrease their risk of something happening.

but i'm done. maybe each man here should just go blow up a bunch of other men. then when theres no men and only women left, women will be safe except from the women who start raping other women. but honestly I was raised by all women. this is the stuff they told me. to take precautions and don't do risky stuff.

why you take the stance that if only 10% of something happens ____ way then it isn't even worth considering stuff that might stop that 10%.
you've done so with adice of not walking down dangerous streets alone, or watching out for drugs in drinks, etc.

but I bet you are in favor of gun control cause it might save 1% of children. as they say if it saves just one life its worth it. but apparanetly advice that might stop a few women from being raped isn't worth considering at all.

so tired of this. what do you want from us. :'(

Out of your ass. Got it.

.

Wouldn't it be grand to live in a society in which we could leave our valuables in the car and expect them to be there and if they're stolen you're not blamed and shamed for leaving them in the car but the perpetrator is blamed for stealing them. Says "I have a dream" in MLK's voice.

I'm sick of having to be on guard all of the time and having to watch my back. It is no wonder we as Americans consume the most amount of SSRIs.

I'm sick of being told "I lack common sense or I'm an idealist."

I'm sick of being told "life is not fair."

Maybe some of the feminists are tired of the same crap. Am I right Tarentella and Starvingartist or off the mark? You all are sick of being victim blamed and slut shamed as well. Personally, I'm sick of victim blaming whether it involves sexism or something else.

When do we say enough is enough? Can the robber be blamed, shamed and prosecuted for stealing from his victim instead of the victim being blamed for putting himself in a position to be stolen from. God f**k almighty. Do you and most people listen to yourselves sly when you all do this victim shaming? Tarentella and StarvingArtist are more right than they even realize.

sly, you're mixing up a whole bunch of things in there.

You know what a lot of crime is? Random. You get some thuggy types feeling destructive, you just happen to be there, you're outta luck.

I've lived in all kinds of neighborhoods, and yes, there are differences. But fewer than you might think. I've been broken into twice, both times in good neighborhoods. Never been broken into in a bad neighborhood. Whether or not crime's going to hit you -- you know, people like to think they have a lot of control, which is maybe part of why we have this armaments insanity going on in this country these days. If you do this, if you do that, you'll be safer - this is the myth. When the reality is the only way to make things safer is to reduce the number of predatory and desperate people wandering around, and the fastest way to do that is to see that people have a chance in life, that their attitude isn't "f**k it", and that they're not so stressed just by trying to stay alive that they go snapping all over the place. After that, the next part's taking crimes seriously.

The places in the world where I've felt safest are the ones where people grow up learning to look after each other a bit rather than seeing themselves as engaged in a solo battle for survival. And they are objectively the safest places I've been, too.

Let me tell you - if someone wants to grab my kid, they will. She's not that big, and she's not hovered over 24/7. I can teach her to scream and run, but a couple good-sized adults would have her stuffed into a van pretty fast. What matters is the reactions of the people around, if they see something strange, get a license number, are able to trust the cops, call it in. For that matter, if someone wanted to kidnap me, I'm really quite portable. Do kidnappers wear signs? No. (The incidence of kidnapping is actually extremely low. I'm much more worried about drunk/stoned drivers than kidnappers.)

I understand the impulse to find magic tricks to try to stay safe, game the odds. But it's really just luck you're counting on. Luck and the concentration of predators.

I think the US, actually, will be getting considerably more dangerous over the next decade or so, and that's because we continue to circle the drain. The number no one likes to talk about is the trade balance, and that's the important number. It's not a happy number. And theft and violence will pick up speed as the merely-rich see themselves slipping, and steal more from those below them and make the desperate class larger. My solution? Leave. Because my behavior, habits, all that have no power to keep me safe -- or my life reasonably pleasant -- where the concentration of desperate and predatory people is high.

Read the stories on #YesAllWomen dude. There's your empirical evidence there. Can't you guys take time to read and analyze what they say on there and other various sites? This says a lot about my own gender when we don't LISTEN.

cubedemon, yeah, I've really had it up to here with victim blaming. Just the other day someone told me I'd chosen to be a single mom, and I really let her have it. But I also understand that people are terrified of randomness, lack of control. There has to be a set of Right Things to Do, they think, that'll protect you, and if you just do those you're fine, so if you're not fine clearly you haven't done those Right Things and it's your own fault. So when we really get into it, me and other people in those arguments, generally they will come to the point of admitting that yes, they are terrified of the thought that random bad things can happen to them, and that they are blaming me to make themselves feel better. At which point I really give it to them, because what the hell, making my day harder and more stressful, when I'm in a tougher position than they are, just so they can make themselves feel better. Then I get the apology.

Does it do any good down the line? Maybe. I limit how often I do it just because it's a pain in the ass and sucks up my energy.

I feel like you completely ignored what I said. I and others do blame the criminal. but that doesn't mean one can't also take precautions. IT IS NOT VICTIM SHAMING!! !! ! just as telling somone not to put their hand on a hot burner isn't victim shaming or telling a kid to avoid strange guys in vans isnt' victim blaming.

this is victim blaming "its all your fault, if you hadn't locked your door, that that guy would not have had to break in your car. now you go free mister car thief"

saying to someone who has never had their car broken into , hey if you don't leave that 20 dollar bill on your front seat your odds of having your car broken into will go from 60% to 10%. is not blaming the victim, just as when the gov says that hey theres people out there with ____ sickness, so avoid ____ areas. that isn't them blaming the guy who goes out and gets sick its them trying to help us avoid getting sick.

another example the gov says don't vly to iraq or you might get taken hostage. then you fly there anways and you get held.hostage. so i guess the gov is just victim blaming right? but realty most people see it as them protecting us and giving us good advice.

i agree it would be nice to live in your dream world, but as long as humans are selfish mean as*holes, that world can never be. trying to pretend it does is just stupid. like gun free zones. or a flue free zone.

I for example use to be totally trusting of everyone. I am honest and open about everything. in a ideal world everyone would be this way. you could tell you friend about something without them turning around and using it to hurt you. you could trust that the guy selling you a fridge is telling the truth about it working, but in realty people lie, they hurt others. and they keep secrets.

so you bad things can happen regardless of if you take precautions or not. so dont' take any at all?
sorry but i can not be that careless. do you also avoid safety protocols at work cause hey bad s**t can happen regardless.

taking precautions is all about reducing the odds that such things can happen. I see now that this isnt about victim blaming its more about different mind sets. one who throws caution to the wind and does what they want regardless of the risks. and the other who does what they can to reduce the odds of bad things happening. but rather then be like me and others have different mindsets you set ou to turn the others into bad guys for taking precautions. just like my friends who made fun of me for not jumping off a roof into a trampoline. the odds of them breaking their bones was slim and only one broke his legs. so meh.

do you advice people to use condoms? i mean there's still a chance they will get impregnate or get a std even though they use them. so why use them at all. and dont tell them that if they want to avoid getting pregnant or a std to use a condom, they should be able to have condom-less sex all they want without being victim blamed by you.

Actually sly there are whole countries that are pretty much gun-free zones. Is what happens when people retain sanity about these things.

The "just take precautions" bit, when it comes to various women's issues, is a bit different from your money-on-the-front-seat thing. That's because the line of thinking has so often been used to control women and shift blame to women. I still see it daily at work: "Well, she chose to have a baby." No, you chose to set up your workplace in a way that doesn't accommodate normal human endeavors like having children, meaning that it discriminates mightily against one sex, so hello please meet this nice lawyer.

When I was a girl, I used to go to synagogue with my grandpa. I stopped when I was 12. That's because, when I was 12, I had to go sit with the women behind the screen. I was told at the time that this was because women are so alluring that we distract men from prayer. The real effect was to take women out of the heart of the service and to disempower them entirely in how the synagogue ran. I could see that plainly at twelve years of age, so I said, essentially, "then you can go to hell", and left. These "precautions" that are meant to "protect women" from the predations of this or that -- this is always the effect: to hide away, constrict, and disempower women. And that's why they're no good, and why the focus properly belongs on the predators, and on how not to rape, and what rape actually is, rather than on what magical thing women might be doing to endanger themselves.

you mean a bunch of women commenting that men did something.

just saw a page of nothing but women commenting how they beat their bf/husband and men saying how they got beat. yet women here claim that that is rare and not worth fighting.

can't have it both ways.

not at all trying to down play that this happens, but do realie i could make 20 or more accounts and comment how a guy abused me as a woman. but i'm a guy. so a tumbler, tweeter, or other sites are not statisitics or facts. as they can be messed with. however stuff like the sensous or polls where they check id and make sure people are making multple accounts are more trusted.

all this sthit seems to do is make people who are nice, and never hurt a woman in their life feel like s**t and want to die. so why don't you all go fight the rapists. go register on PUA sites and fight them. the actually people who do these things.

Last edited by sly279 on 01 Sep 2014, 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.