so if you didn't feel like you had to get a girl....

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Hey, my friend, why are you attacking me? LOL

I'm speaking the truth here.

I'm saying it wouldn't be safe for any person to do the same things late at night (i.e., 2AM) than during the day.

I certainly would exercise much more caution at that time of night.

Just street sense.

(Stroking Ann just below the chin while I'm saying this)

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 17 Jul 2014, 8:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

i read this link, some comments, the accused's own defense and another page about other people's opinions on the matter. What I am reading suggests he is feeling bullied, the link provided here by Ann suggests that he should take responsibility for his actions or anything he did that was wrong, and the rest of society is arguing over whether he is guilty or not. He has already been labelled and he hasn't even entered the court system over this matter.

?

You have to be there, Ann. It's an affectionate type of thing.

LOL...some feminists might get offended by that--that I'm treating you like a kid or a puppy dog or something. I don't find this is so.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 17 Jul 2014, 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sounds to me like some kung fu move.

Only if I want to experience the sensual side of Kung Fu.

It sounds like the more creepy side of kung fu now.

You just have to be there, my friend. You just have to be there.

I AM the wolfman, after all!! !! !! !! !

If I'm "attacked" any further, I'll just have to shrug my shoulders LOL

If Ann wants to attack me, I'll just tell her to "make my day."

Truthfully, after I lost my virginity, I would ALWAYS counsel people to not listen to peer pressure--wait until you meet the person you really, really love, so the love experience will be at its grandest.

One must always offer one's hand for sniffing prior to chin scratching.

I shall adhere to that, especially in light of that most illuminating picture!

Yes, and I've acknowledged this, and asked followup questions, which have been graciously answered. Several posters have also commented on the validity of the idea in their own lives, which means (given tiny sample) that the original idea isn't nothing, it just isn't all there is.



I never said that social pressure is the only reason to pursue romance. I think you need to slow down and read more carefully.

The thing that's interesting to me, and the thing this thread is about (again, go back, reread) is patterns of approaching potential partners when looking for romance. Rejection on initial asking-out, and how-to-ask-out, questions/comments/complaints/lamentations are far more common amongst men than women, and not just here. And that rejection is the source of a tremendous amount of unhappiness and ambivalence about, also outright anger at, women. The usual trope -- advanced by men as a reason why they have to go through this, though it's rejected here and elsewhere often by women -- is that women expect men to do the asking and won't make the first move, leaving that responsibility to men.There's also another chronic theme that bubbles through, which is to do with not having a mate when everyone else has one, and feeling socially inadequate because of it. Put them together and the message appears to be, "Men, if you don't have a girlfriend it's your own fault, because it's on you to make the first move: go ask." And the more social pressure there is to have a girlfriend -- the more intense the feeling of social inadequacy at not having a girlfriend -- the more intense that pressure.

However. This doesn't mean that other incentives to pair off don't exist, which is why I asked the question as I did: if that particular pressure didn't exist, would your behavior change. Some people have replied saying "that pressure doesn't exist for me anyway", while others have said it does, and a few have said that their behavior would change.

Why am I asking these questions? Because it seems to me that if a combination of pressures is leading men to approach women at a much higher rate than women approach men, it could make sense that men feel more bruised by rejection than women do. In which case the question is 'is it possible to relieve some of the pressures that push men to stick their hands in the fan all the time'.

Several people here have said "it doesn't matter, women face the same pressures". But I don't think that's true, and I think that's reflected in how anxious men are to ask women out v. women asking men. As I've said elsewhere, and other women have echoed, the bar for my interest is pretty high. A guy not only has to be attractive, but look like a good potential longterm partner for me, and there aren't many of those. So while I have no problem asking men out (I've never met a grown woman who's shy about that), there just aren't many I do ask out. As for other women's pressures to find men, I've described populations of women who just...aren't that driven to do it, not because they're asexual or celibate, but because they don't think it's a good use of their time right now.

I think patterns after separation and divorce also bear out the idea that there's more pressures on men to couple up than on women. If you look at dating sites, you'll find tons of guys who're there either in expectation of or just-post-breakup. Get back in that saddle, etc. The same is not so true of women, particularly single dads v. single moms. Women often take years to begin dating again. Not because they're scarred by men, but because it's more important to them to pull their lives back together and heal -- and, in the case of moms, set things up practically and help their kids through the divorce aftermath -- than it is to go find a new partner. What I've seen over the last decade or so is that the men are much more pressed to jump back in. Large studies of how men and women fare post-divorce also support it: women's quality of life tends to rise, and they're happier, while mens' tends to plummet. The men seem to need the relationships more than the women do.

How much of that's to do with social pressures? I don't know. That's why I asked.

Social pressure does play a role with, at least, some frequency. Men are teased, especially, within "macho" contexts such as locker rooms. The true man, though, doesn't react to peer pressure. He goes according to his heart.

If a person wants to wait for the "right one," who are we to object?

Personally, I knew women entering another relationship (bf, not marriage) after a break up way faster than men; most of men I knew who went through a break up after a long significant relationship, there was already another man in the scene (and often they start to badmouth about him), often he appears with the ex-gf on FB within weeks.
I have never seen a man switching that fast.

And actually, I think that imbalance -- men feeling more intense pressures to pair off than women currently do, at least in the US -- is what's fuelling a good deal of serious anger. It used to be that women were ostracized if they didn't marry, or stay married, or have children, and that's hardly the case anymore. There've been a lot of changes amongst women that make pairing off less necessary and attractive than it used to be, and make women less anxious to say yes. Which means that it really is harder than it used to be for men to find a partner.

I'm actually an excellent example of that. 50 years ago, in this country, I'd have been desperate to find a new husband, both so I could survive and support my daughter and so my daughter didn't face social death for being the child of a divorcee and single mother. Finding a job would've been extremely difficult -- employers would've been free to discriminate against a divorcee, I wouldn't have had much education, and even if I had been able to find work, it would hardly have allowed me to look after my daughter well at the same time. 25 years ago, the social and educational situation would've eased, but I still would've had an even harder time supporting my child, because alimony awards were made less often. It would've been "find a man or live with (or at least near) your mother". Now? It's not easy, but the stigma's essentially gone for my daughter, and as a well-educated woman I've made a living working freelance telecommute on my own schedule, far from any other family. It's been enough to keep us in a nice little house in a good neighborhood with good schools, allow the child to do activities and go on trips and to summer camp, live an ordinary middle-class life. Nearly all social and financial pressures for me to couple up have disappeared. Whatever's left is my own desires for emotional and physical happiness, which means that a guy actually has to make me pretty happy in order for a relationship to be worthwhile. It leaves the bar set much higher. I've had men get pretty angry at me about that.

oops, work.

That reminds me of that date I had with a girl I met on okc, and she was the one who asked me out; she mentioned her 3-years former relationship during the date, and I was like "that must be hard, it's a long time, when did you break up?".
She said: "Yesterday".