DataSage’s Alpha Male Guide to Meeting Women (JULY UPDATE!!)

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I'm a woman and NT so my response is colored by that but I think these guides are both harmless and mostly useless. I only read the excerpts posted but the main slant seems to be how to say things that won't be off-putting to women so that they will not shut you down and will be at least somewhat intrigued. That's good. That's useful. These guides are likely quite helpful in getting AS and shy NT men into an initial conversation with a woman. But what then? The guides act as scripts and they work as such (especially for AS men who desire a script) because initial conversations between people who don't know each other well often do follow a format. This format is alien to AS men and shy NT men so the guide teaches it. But I suspect the usefulness ends there. Because once that first hour of conversation is over, women will go "off script" as it were and the man who actually needs this guide to know what to say will be suddenly lost. The guide is all about formula and formulaic conversations only work for the first hour or so because women are following a social formula too.

So that's why I think there is a little usefulness in learning how to break the ice but no usefullness after that. ASnd therefore no danger either. Once the ice is broken and the conversation is going and the woman is interested...then what? There is no script. The woman said "yes" to a date and the guide has you believe that she will then have sex with you but it doesn't actually work like that. A true player doesn't need a guide because he can think on his feet and subtly change his style and reactions to match the woman. This is a skill that the guide can't teach because it requires far more than mere knowledge. It requires an exquisite sensitivity to body language, prosody and implications of words- precisely the things that AS men and shy NT men lack because they are so caught up in worrying about how everything they say and do will be taken. So there is no danger to women from wannabe player men who read these guides. There may be some marginal; danger to the men who read the guides and get fooled into thinking women can be counted on to always follow a script and if they just do "A" she will always react with "B". A seasoned player knows that isn't true and can adapt instantaneously. That's how he is able to be a player in the first place- his flexibility in adapting his approach to the specific woman he is trying to seduce.

Hi.

I’m brand new, just got here.

What a wonderful Planet this is, in general. I read the first 2 pages of this thread out of sheer curiosity, then looked to the end, years later!

Stinkypuppy, responding to and amplifying Janissy’s take on it all, observes:

“…I mean, once the AS guy got the girlfriend, what then? If you … are trying to get NT girlfriends using this guide, are you willing to put up with her NT needs in the long run? Only true social skills and social understanding are going to help you stick it out in the long run. If not, why are you even bothering?”

This has such resonances for me. The main reason I’m here is that I’ve been trying to relate to a very bright but sometimes very strange man, for YEARS now. His ways of interacting with me sometimes create very hurt feelings. It has taken me a long time to figure out that he is most likely on the Aspergers spectrum somewhere. I’ve had to cope with what he himself refers to as his “inability to meet my emotional needs.” I’ve felt mistreated at times, when he should by all “normal” standards have done or mostly SAID something that was left undone or unsaid.

There are some strange absences from the advice offered and the portions of the discussion I read.

My social experiences tend to be with those on the extreme right tail of the intelligence curve, where my computer-programming friends and relatives fall. Mensa is full of Little Professors with amazingly bad social skills. Privately, I’ve been used to thinking of aspergers as “Engineer’s Syndrom.” So this question is for those who fall into that category, and I kind of assume that it applies to a majority of posters here, who are so articulate and self-analytical: if you’re so bright, why on earth would you want to fool around ‘courting’ women who are so normal that they are your intellectual inferiors by tens of IQ points? I mean, someone with an IQ of 130 trying to date someone with an IQ of 100 makes as much sense as a “normal” looking to date someone with an IQ of 70.

Where’s the joy in that? You are going to talk about what together? (Once you’re finished with all that, presumably, torrid sex.) Shouldn’t you be thinking about trying to find the few special women who are bright enough to be interesting to you???

If not – and this is all about animal (alpha-animal!) sexuality, then my advice is go and build up your body! Go to the gym and get all “hot” looking. If we women are all instinct-driven unconsciously falling for men who look right in the first 5 seconds, for goodness sake, develop those pectorals! We say no but we’ll mean yes when you impress us with your masculinity! Wow. Go get masculin. Let us smell your pheromones….

Back to intelligent conversation – that’s a lot of what my strange friend and I have in common. We share a lot of intellectual and cultural interests. We can do things together that we both enjoy, like concerts and plays, and discuss them afterwards. There is a healthy function to dates like this; they offer plenty of structure and offer an armiture for conversation. He uses these structured evenings as a prelude to physical contact. A lot of the time these evenings work quite well, despite the bizarre (abrupt, for me) transition between conversation and sexuality.

Lets look back at the first page of advice:

“See dating as a circle. … If a girl leaves the circle on her own accord, you must realize that she left for the exact reason every girl leaves every guy (REGARDLESS of the situation): she expected something that you could not give her, and that is not your problem, it’s hers.”

That’s haunting for me. My friend always seems to have a passive attitude about his “not meeting my emotional needs.” Its as if it were somehow unthinkable to even try to meet them. If he were to compromise with me, it would be very helpful. If he were to TRY, it would be wonderful. There’s this same fatalism here. It’s not your problem, it’s hers.

(Look, an actual relationship is like a potluck dinner. Everybody brings something, and everybody is nourished. If you show up but don’t bring anything, don’t wonder why the dinner is not as lavish as you’d hoped.)

Anyway, the girl or woman who will actually accept you as you are -- and who will maintain your interest in her -- will be in your league in terms of intelligence. She will have to have a big heart to accommodate you. If anything she will need to be VERY empathic to understand your needs and limitations, as they will be so different from yours.

On top of that, she will need to be an “alpha” female to cope with your less-than-optimal emotional support. No teary emotional weaklings. Don’t try to out-alpha her!

Find a woman you can actually talk to, and allow her to get to know who you truly are.

I think DataDage's guide makes a lot of sense. A lot of it is pitched above the level I tend to function at but it makes interesting reading.

I can actually make passable conversations with women if they speak to me first. This happens occasionally. I don't have the confidence to approach women - I just don't know what to say to get them to talk back to me. I am very concious of my Autism as a communication impairment and I constanly wonder how I appear to other people - especially women.

DataSage mentioned something about being careful not to wind up as just friends with a women I am interested in. How do I do that? How do I indicate to a woman that I like her? What is being too forward as opposed to not being forward enough?

Very confusing.

Oy, it's been years since I wrote my guide, but I can still say I'm sticking to it. My game has improved significantly, though. I could add more to this guide, but I feel my efforts are always in vain on here--I dunno. Glad to see people are still taking from it and discussing its merits.

I get a lot of PMs from people here and the majority of it is positive. I'd say the ratio is 3-1 in favor, but those who do not approve are particularly nasty, in a very aspie sort of way. I'm beginning to realize, I've changed so much, gone through such a radical transformation over the past eight years or so, that my AS really isn't affecting me at all anymore. I mean, it is, don't get me wrong, but socially I'm just so much better off than I was even in 2006 (feels like ages ago).

For those who are interested, I just got done reading a fascinating book--it is not pickup related, just more generally geared towards self-improvement. It's called The Way of the Superior Man: A Spiritual Guide to Mastering the Challenges of Women, Work and Sexual Desire by David Deida, and it is a MASTERPIECE. It has helped me more than any PUA stuff has, and I'm a better man for it. Regardless, I'm still using a lot of David D/Mystery/Tyler Durden techniques, but as far as relationships and sex go, Deida is the man. I highly recommend it to all men in this thread.

I don't buy into any of this alpha male crap,were not in primitive times.The only alpha male out are chimpanzees!