so if you didn't feel like you had to get a girl....

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Personally, I knew women entering another relationship (bf, not marriage) after a break up way faster than men; most of men I knew who went through a break up after a long significant relationship, there was already another man in the scene (and often they start to badmouth about him), often he appears with the ex-gf on FB within weeks.
I have never seen a man switching that fast.

That reminds me of that date I had with a girl I met on okc, and she was the one who asked me out; she mentioned her 3-years former relationship during the date, and I was like "that must be hard, it's a long time, when did you break up?".
She said: "Yesterday".

Yes, and I've acknowledged this, and asked followup questions, which have been graciously answered. Several posters have also commented on the validity of the idea in their own lives, which means (given tiny sample) that the original idea isn't nothing, it just isn't all there is.



I never said that social pressure is the only reason to pursue romance. I think you need to slow down and read more carefully.

The thing that's interesting to me, and the thing this thread is about (again, go back, reread) is patterns of approaching potential partners when looking for romance. Rejection on initial asking-out, and how-to-ask-out, questions/comments/complaints/lamentations are far more common amongst men than women, and not just here. And that rejection is the source of a tremendous amount of unhappiness and ambivalence about, also outright anger at, women. The usual trope -- advanced by men as a reason why they have to go through this, though it's rejected here and elsewhere often by women -- is that women expect men to do the asking and won't make the first move, leaving that responsibility to men.There's also another chronic theme that bubbles through, which is to do with not having a mate when everyone else has one, and feeling socially inadequate because of it. Put them together and the message appears to be, "Men, if you don't have a girlfriend it's your own fault, because it's on you to make the first move: go ask." And the more social pressure there is to have a girlfriend -- the more intense the feeling of social inadequacy at not having a girlfriend -- the more intense that pressure.

However. This doesn't mean that other incentives to pair off don't exist, which is why I asked the question as I did: if that particular pressure didn't exist, would your behavior change. Some people have replied saying "that pressure doesn't exist for me anyway", while others have said it does, and a few have said that their behavior would change.

Why am I asking these questions? Because it seems to me that if a combination of pressures is leading men to approach women at a much higher rate than women approach men, it could make sense that men feel more bruised by rejection than women do. In which case the question is 'is it possible to relieve some of the pressures that push men to stick their hands in the fan all the time'.

Several people here have said "it doesn't matter, women face the same pressures". But I don't think that's true, and I think that's reflected in how anxious men are to ask women out v. women asking men. As I've said elsewhere, and other women have echoed, the bar for my interest is pretty high. A guy not only has to be attractive, but look like a good potential longterm partner for me, and there aren't many of those. So while I have no problem asking men out (I've never met a grown woman who's shy about that), there just aren't many I do ask out. As for other women's pressures to find men, I've described populations of women who just...aren't that driven to do it, not because they're asexual or celibate, but because they don't think it's a good use of their time right now.

I think patterns after separation and divorce also bear out the idea that there's more pressures on men to couple up than on women. If you look at dating sites, you'll find tons of guys who're there either in expectation of or just-post-breakup. Get back in that saddle, etc. The same is not so true of women, particularly single dads v. single moms. Women often take years to begin dating again. Not because they're scarred by men, but because it's more important to them to pull their lives back together and heal -- and, in the case of moms, set things up practically and help their kids through the divorce aftermath -- than it is to go find a new partner. What I've seen over the last decade or so is that the men are much more pressed to jump back in. Large studies of how men and women fare post-divorce also support it: women's quality of life tends to rise, and they're happier, while mens' tends to plummet. The men seem to need the relationships more than the women do.

How much of that's to do with social pressures? I don't know. That's why I asked.

run.

I'm not saying it never happens, Boo. I'm saying it's more often men than women who find it necessary to leap back in, to the point of cliche.

You've just made this post interesting enough or me to jump in. I'm not going to sit here and claim there is a tremendous amount of social pressure for me to find a woman and have a stable relationship with her, at least not socially. Don't get me wrong, it's there, but for some reason my masculinity isn't challenged by other men. Part of that I think is I'm a very large man, so I'm somewhat deemed as intimidating even though I'm relatively gentle. I've also found that as I get older, the pressure is less so for me. I'm treated more like a respectable member of society. Young boys and girls will go out of there way to smile at me, or say hi to me, or wave to me. Clearly there is a natural attraction to my masculinity, a feeling of being safe, and also that of a father figure, all rolled into one. The most telling sign is that women are not compelled to feel protective of their children, "Don't go up to that strange man and say hi to him." For some reason I'm not viewed as a threat.

Now mind you, I'm a single man, but I did not divorce, I'm a widower. But it's not like that's written on my forehead, and I don't go around advertising it, "My wife is dead, feel sorry for me, nurture me." I guess what I'm trying to say is simply that I don't feel a lot of social pressure to find a woman, at least not directly. Clearly I find it in advertising, and in indirect ways, but it's almost nonexistent directly. I think men who might challenge me with respect to my finding a woman sense it would go something like this, "So, man, I need to ask, what's up with you not having a woman? It doesn't seem normal to me." "What's it to you?" "Well, I'm just wondering what kind of a man you are." "Shut up, I respect actions and not words. You get the first punch. I'm not joking around either." Okay, so I'll admit that comes across as defensive and even unconfident, but quite frankly, I am defensive and unconfident, and mainly I can afford to be.

On the other hand, I feel pressure to provide more of a family for my son. Can a single Asperger's dad raise a son? While I'm doing a good job, love him dearly, and provide him with everything I can, I feel like as he gets older my limitations will become more apparent. So I feel I have pressure to find him a mommy. I'm very affectionate with him, I tell him I'm proud of him and remind him that I love him all the time. When he's sick I'll play the "mommy" role and nurture him, but I can't help but feel there's no way I can be as good as a female at this role. I'd expect a woman to be more sensitive and understanding, and provide observations I can't.

So yeah, I feel like there's pressure for me to find a woman. But mainly I feel that pressure is from the fact that women have legitimate capabilities and roles in a family that can't be replaced by a man. Women have value, they have advantages, they complete a family.

Obviously there are pressures for *me* to have a relationship with a woman as well. I'm not just looking for mommy, I'm looking for lover and friend. I'm looking for support, and or somebody to support. I'm looking for more flexibility, and also frankly the assurance that if I die in a car crash there is somebody who can care for my son, who my son loves and adores.

So ladies, no pressure. It's not like I'm asking for a lot here.

BG, have you tried to date single moms? They might be more understanding to your situation and are already moms, so the mom role idea wouldn't freak them as much; nor it would scare you to become a dad figure for her child.
And I guess there are more single moms than single dads, more options for you.

I never have understood this dug-in resistance to doing the sane and polite thing (asking, getting a yes) and the insistence on being able to read magic signals.

If you want to go on telling yourself that this is all about blaming men, you're welcome to. You'll just be wrong.

The conversation was with a particular man who insisted he had super-duper mindreading powers, and that social rules should be geared to these magic powers of his. It wasn't directed at men, the group, specifically.

The "directed at men" is your own overlay.

I mean considering the trouble so many men have figuring out whether women are interested in them, relying on "signal detection" seems not quite bright.

The question is whether you're actually able to interpret them accurately when the stakes are high, and men's track record on the "but she wanted it" score is abysmal, also perhaps colored by wishful "hearing".

Again, if men were genius at reading real and actual non-verbal invitations, and refraining from forcing their way through when no such invitation actually exists, then this would be moot.

I'm sure some are. Unfortunately, they don't wear signs, and a great many men are bad at it, which is why the internet is full of puzzled/outraged/frustrated "how do I know" questions

In the US, 1/5 of all women report having been raped.
Nearly 2/3 of women report having been sexually harassed.
In some other parts of the world, those numbers are much higher.

Clearly something is not working quite right with the "romantic communication"

But if you're kissing/groping women who haven't actually told you they want it, and it turns out that they don't want it, you've assaulted them sexually, even if they never say a word to you about it. If you want to make sure you're not a rapist, ask before you do anything with/to her body...

If you ask (and some people have), I'll happily say that everyone should ask verbally before touching someone else sexually, except in the context of a stable relationship where you guys have already worked these things out.