Nice Guys and Love, what's your take on the issue

Post Reply New Topic

Just because someone is 'Bad' it doesn't mean they have a dark side. More often then not it just means theyre an idiot.

No doubt true - the world is full of self-centred @$$holes who score women at will. I have seen it at work many a time. The sad part is seeing the sheer level of attraction jerks can generate in women - even when the women know they are being abused. In a previous company I worked for, there was a very attractive woman who lived with the most arrogant jerk you could ever want to meet. This woman had had numerous stays in hospital at the hands of this d**khead. But get this, every time she was out of the house, he would have one of his other girlfriends stay over. And this woman knew about it. Despite this, the woman in question not only put up with his ill-treatment of her, she couldn't say enough things about how wonderful he was (all the time with that dopey, vacant, far away look chicks get in their eyes). When I left that company, she was still with him. At the time. I can remember being very confused about how could anyone (female or male) feel such attraction for someone who treated them so badly.

This was all before I worked out the importance of confidence in attracting women. Not that am in any way able to apply this knowledge but that is not the point. The point ultimately is, despite whatever reasons a woman has for choosing to be with any guy, the fact is she chose to be with him. Yes, I appreciate there are biological urges at play but we humans are capable of deciding when to and not to obey these urges - obese people choosing to eat less in order to loose weight is an example. I get relatively sick of women choosing to be with @$$holes and then slighting men in general because they themselves can't make intelligent decisions.

I have little (if any) sympathy for women who get abused by jerks. As far as I am concerned, jerks and the women who are stupid enough to be with them deserve each other.

Bingo!

However, I think this is one of those "age out" deals, for a normally un-stunted and growing/developing adult female. When I met my ex husband, I was in college. I would never have noticed the softspoken computer geek guy. I would have interpreted him as not "confident". My ex was athletic, and charismatic with an outgoing demeanor. Not a jock, but athletic and very typically male. I thought that meant: masculine. What I know from our 15 years together is he was actually frightened, just underneath it a scared little boy. And a lot of the athletics and sports was a cover-up for not dealing with the world. (Not saying everyone's this way, just saying my ex husband)

My grandma used to say look at how a man acts. Don't listen to his words, look at his actions. After my husband left us, I had a couple years alone and when I ventured back out dating (with Mr. Rath) I tried to practice this. I found that he has a very quiet sort of confidence. He sits at his desk and pays his bills on time. He bends down onto his knee and speaks to the children firmly and openly about mistakes, or consequences. If he is frightened he doesn't really hide behind other stuff but he'll say it frankly. If he's unsure, he says it. That is confidence to me, today. Masculine means something different to me, today. Mr. Rath, more than even confident, is steady. And steadiness is attractive to me today.

He doesn't have a DUDE!! IN YOUR FACE! confidence, but then again - at 41, I'm not falling for that B.S. Email that crap back to my gullible college girl self. The thing that is very attractive to me about an aspie male is the sometimes-oblivious bit. It can be maddening also - but I love that Mr. Rath is oblivious to a lot of crap. In and of itself that feels confident - he doesn't really care much what other people are wearing or thinking in the popular culture and to that extent, he follows his own drum.

I think the "macho / jock / as*hole / jerk" exterior is often misconstrued as confidence and confidence is attractive to the female of the species. As we age, we hopefully recognize confidence and steadiness in different ways.

I have sometimes wondered if this is not the case with a lot of macho @$$holes.


Amen. It one thing to hide fear bhind a facade of bravado - like most "confident" guys do. It is annother to admit one's fears and actually confront them. I agree that Mr Rath has the real kind of confidence.


Glad to hear it - there are entirely to many alpha-male wannabes runnig around with that kind of attitude. Usually these idiots use others (often introverts) as foils to boost their confidence. To me, having to use others to boost what confidence you have is pretty weak. I respect that Mr Rath has what I like to call, "Quiet Confidence".


I have often thought that the constant bowing to peer pressure and societal expectations that most NT's do is the ultimate form of cowardice. It is really cool you have a man who is able to hold to his own convictions and thas the confidence to treat his own path in life.


I agree - what people interpret as confidence actually is confidence for them.


I hope so. More to the point, I hope that as I get older, I am recognosed more for my abilities and my perseverance to overcome disability than I am for having a disability. Like most very introverted people, I don't have a "Shout it from the rooftops" confidence or a "I'm better then you kind of you" confidence. Thank God for which. Rather, I have the "Yeah, I can do that" confidence. The amazing thing is that most macho jerks I have met who spend all their time beating their own drum have not achieved anywhere near what I have in life. My obvious problem is a lack of ability to convey this confidence.

This is so true. For the most part, we can assume that women crave these attributes as a product of evolution. We don't know why it is--that said, it is okay to be a bit of a jerk, as long as there is no malice involved. It is also true that there are a lot of jerks out there who hurt good women through exploitation. But guess what? There are even more men who are hurt through exploitation by women. Feminists always make it out to be that women are victims in relationships, but studies show it trending the other way, and this has to do with a lack of masculinity on the part of most men, and this applies to both jerks and nice guys.

Now BetsyRath above indicated that this could be an age thing. I have to be honest, I wholeheartedly disagree. The last girlfriend I had was 37 (I'm 23), no children, and craving marriage. In fact, she was so obsessed with me and my ambitious, George Carlin-esque personality, she was trying to get me to get her pregnant because she saw that as a tool to get me to stay. I say "stay" not in the context of me leaving the relationship, but I was about to move to go for my PhD and she didn't want to make the commitment to come with me. The point is this: she saw my ambition, she saw my "bad boy" attitude, and she saw my maturity all rolled into one, and guess what? She wouldn't have dated any other man her age because she couldn't find it there, so she went with a younger guy who did have it. Plain and simple, my unwillingness to compromise my goals, my efforts to get my life in order, and my commitment to intellectual endeavors make me a magnet for most women, this one included.

It's not about being a jerk. It is about confidence. The fact that a lot of jerks exhibit confidence is truly secondary, and is not indicative of confident people as a whole.

I can relate, I barely dodged a woman like that too. She knew I was desperate for a relationship because I didn't have a lot personality-wise going for me and so she exploited it. Meanwhile, she knew I would have steady income and plenty of money.

Nice guys tend to get picked on. That's probably one of the biggest reason's they don't have much confidence.

There's no available 'nice guys' here that would have even the remotest interest in me.

Nice guys don't like to pretend (lie or fake). If you don't like to pretend, you're bound to say something people don't like. If you say something people don't like too often, people will start to dislike you as well. When people start to dislike you, your self-esteem goes down. The lower your self-esteem gets, the harder it becomes to restore it.

That's the cause->reaction sceme I believe to be behind it.

What makes you so certain about that?

Your one data point sounds to me like another deal all together. I'm talking about otherwise normally well adjusted, aging, female. Once a woman of a certain age (childless) decides she needs a baby, all bets are off. I've seen women go crazy behind that, I'm not exaggerating.

No offense but none of my peers would be with a 23 year old for much else besides 10 hours of sex. (Not that there's anything wrong with that!!). What do you talk to the guy about later? Men settle down as they age - if she's looking for that type of intensity still at 37, there's something else going on. Makes me exhausted to think about it. Other than the sex, why be with a 20 something if you've already been there in your life.

My personal guess is that most women do not "prefer" jerks. I think immature gals are likely to mistake jerkiness and arrogance for independence in thought and confidence. And some gals (as we can see) sadly don't age out of that. Just like some guys, sadly, don't age out of jerkiness and arrogance.

I would if you weren't nearly twice my age

and do NOT completely listen to autiemalcontent either

Yeah I believe it, it's also the fact that nice guys express their feelings more and are more likely to be sensitive and therefore talk all lovey dovey more often. This leads to less desire in the girl, because she gets spoon fed all this affection, and she grows desensitized to it. Girl's like a guy that she wishes she knew what was going on in his mind, rather he missed her or rather he doesn't is always bothering her, and the more she wants to know the more she'll think about him, and the more she'll want him.

Girl's will deny it to no end, and it does make sense why they do, they like a guy who expresses his strong feelings. But it gets old fast if you lay on the hardcore mushy lovey dovey day in and day out, sure girls can take a lot before getting bored, but if a guys too lovey dovey then it will go down the drain eventually.

You can be nice and mysterious though, but chances are if your nice, then your sensitive. And you need to hold back your feelings, and it can hurt to not let them go crazy. If your dieing inside to express how much you miss her then you'd better hold your breath, because she'd probably be better off not hearing it, she might find it sweet, but her interest will drop a tad.

Of course a guy should let a girl know that he likes her, but when it's clear she knows, just start to slow down a bit.

I'm just telling you from my own experiences. The female race has not really changed over the past 13,000 years. Women prefer dominant males who can easily defend their territory and best their opponents, and in today's world, this usually comes in the form of jerks. So while your original hypothesis is kind of true, jerks DO exhibit independence and confidence.

This makes sense and could explain some of my personal experiences with women.