so if you didn't feel like you had to get a girl....

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No, I'm pretty sure I didn't "essentially call him a rapist".

Increasingly amusing, though, the extent of the dug-in fury and accusations of sexism and "you're calling him a rapist" and all the rest about something pretty simple:

Ask before you start touching someone sexually.

It really makes me wonder what exactly you're defending, or worried about.

Last edited by tarantella64 on 17 Jul 2014, 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

He's got a long blog post of his own about it. I'm not a bit worried about a slander (libel, actually, it's publication) charge.

I like how you're not even denying using loaded language and presuming guilt.

Really?

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp6120029.html#6120029


So, tell us how "women would be well advised not to date you or get into elevators with you" is not read as "I think you'd rape someone given the chance. No hurry, I'll wait.

If you'd like, I can also jog your memory with other times you've made similar implications against people who've argued with you, they're not hard to find, and unlike other posters I could mention, I'm perfectly happy to back my claims with evidence.



I'd put your framing more like "if you don't get explicit verbal permission before engaging in any kind of romantic activity, including flirting, you're a rapist, and feminists will hound you on Twitter".
Besides which, I've only just joined the thread, and I'm taking on very specific points, so spare me the lazy broad brush.



Are you trying to say something about me, tarantella? Perhaps imply something? Don't be shy, come out with it, I'm sure we'd all love to hear it.

I view posting on a forum as more akin to a spoken conversation than publishing something, so I use the (to my mind) more appropriate term, slander, though aside from the medium they're fairly interchangeable, unless you're an insufferable pedant of course. I also never said you should be worried about a libel/slander suit, merely that you were getting close to the line that could trigger one, e.g. making a false accusation that damages his reputation without evidence; why do you think his blog post somehow makes it okay to libel him? Then again, you think someone disagreeing with you makes it okay to imply that they are a sexual predator, so I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised.

This afternoon I was at a "cocktails and canvas"party with my daughter and one of her friends. Thinking maybe times have changed that much from "my day," I asked them both [single, youngish, fun] if they would be offended if a man attempted to kiss them without first asking for permission. They thought that was a crazy question. Somehow, the entire room got involved in the conversation, including the art leader. Consensus was, unless the guy was an extremely good-looking and old fashioned southern boy, that asking for permission for a kiss was weird and creepy.

I'm not sure whether this is the correct thread or not, but I look at them all as related.

BTW, I think starting September 24, somebody sure made some, in my opinion, incredibly man-hating statements [ not to be confused with the ones questioning, almost accusing statements about Autistics who selfishly choose to have kids.] Also, I know you have issues with your Autistic father that are painful enough that you have chosen 'No contact," but it seems as though you have issues with Autistics in general and Autistic males specifically. None of us here are your father. And many of us are incredible parents. Please stop hurting people. And maybe you should spend equal time with your kid and your job rather than pretending you know more about how we should live our lives than we do.

Last edited by vickygleitz on 18 Jul 2014, 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You asked a question which provoked thought, and many men would reflect upon womens arguments and agendas and wanton rights and desires, then reflect upon their own for the correct answer.

Much of the magic comes from spontaneity of the moment for the correct answers, between the two individuals.

Sorry, Dox, unless you're willing to have a reasonable conversation, rather than snarling and making wild accusations, we're done talking.

*scratching head* So I was being weird and creepy according to them.

If only you recorded this conversation and uploaded it to youtube, that would be interesting to watch.

I've found this thread on loveshack:
http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romanti ... ld-guy-ask

I am gonna quote every female response, of both With, Against and InBetween the idea of asking first for a kiss:


Against:

Against:


Against:


With:


Unclear...probably inBetween:



With:



I have to dig more threads.

Snarling? Wild accusations? Is that what you call calmly pointing out the holes in your arguments, and then providing citations to prove that you said what you now claim you didn't?

Let me give you some advice; in a written medium, people can easily look at exactly what was said and how it was phrased, and draw their own conclusions. What this means for you, is that you should stop trying to distort what other people say and mischaracterize them, as when they point it out, you've got no escape, the words are right there for everyone to see and know your dishonesty for what it is.

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts3087240.aspx

Thread:

Note: will include only those whom I can identify they're females (profiles not always accessible but I can easily tell their genders most of them based on their previous threads, usernames, profile pics, their posts, common sense...).

So don't think I am being selective.

Against = against the idea of being asked verbally first for a kiss.
With = with being asked first.
Inbetween = ok with both, depends on the guy...etc.



Against:


Against:


Against:



Against:


Against:


Against:


Inbetween


Against:


Not sure...



Inbetween:


Against:



Against:


unclear...probably against.


Inbetween:



Page 2:

Against:


Against:


Against:



Against, yet she's complaining about surprising unwanted kisses.



Inbetween


Inbetween:


Inbetween....more Against:


Against:


Against:


Against:


Against (she's female, I checked her post in orgasm thread).


Against:


Inbetween:


Against:




Page 3:
Against but huh..hmm...what...bit confusing?:



Against:


Inbetween, confusing.


Against:


Against:


With (at least for the 1st kiss)



Inbetween



Against



Umm...hmm....Inbetween...I think.


Incomprehensible to me:


Against:



Inbetween....leaning more to Against.


Inbetween



inBetween, but she kissed his mouth without asking.


holy.....so Against.





There are 14 pages on this thread! I might continue later, but this is a representative sample I guess.

Again, I have checked their gender one by one, remember that.

Asking for a kiss is a big no, but so is kissing if she isn't giving the right signals and reading signals is something we lack so just go for it..

Luckily I met very forward women, very initiative, I was initiative as well but they knew how to get what they want and work their magic, however you do need some initiative. Just being static isn't going to get you anywhere, you need to be responsive somewhat.

Here another thread:

http://www.datehookup.com/Thread-1237447.htm

Most women there are against being verbally being asked first too.

So tarantella and starvingartist....do you see the dilemma now?

I had shown you tons of examples of women who don't like to be asked first for a kiss; half of them were even being aggressive against the idea; a lot have even expressed that asking first is a deal breaker for them.

That's why I have always suspected that you have never socialized enough with a lot of types of women, your interaction with other women is probably limited to relatives or you befriend with same-minded women only (ie. active feminists) - which are only a tiny fraction of women, I would hardly believe otherwise regarding your interactions with other women.

In my country I am not sure how women think about it, but some women told me they prefer the "be a man, go for it" type of responses - but those were Christians, not sure if it's that common among Muslim women, I've never talked to them about it (40% of population is Christian). edit: Well, there was a muslim girl I've kinda dated who preferred the "just do it" first kiss too.

I was also often told by guys that they just go for it and advised to never ask but I always thought they were just acting macho.

Also, a kiss is not the same as sex, just we don't talk about rape again.


Anyway, you two keep lecturing guys what really women want during the date, like you know every woman's mind, and like you are spokesperson of every woman on this planet, so who are all these people on these dating threads? Ghosts? All are fake? All of them are men pretending to be women? Is Vicky's story just a lie? Also are the all men's testimonies regarding "kissing without asking work best" are deluded guys, Max cases? And the things I hear from women in real life? All lies? You talk as if you know everything and how the majority of women think regarding this subject (the kiss), it turns out that you know very little.

And so am I ( I know very little), I am kinda astonished to see that much number of women, through a quick google search, DEMAND men to read their minds and their body language flawlessly when it comes to kissing- I've always thought words are better, me too I need a reality check on this matter and reanalyze my dating history.

onewithstrange and dox weren't completely wrong in everything they said after all.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 18 Jul 2014, 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am thinking of doing an excel sheet for the data above.

I ask if I could kiss a lady's hand first. I think that's a good transition. Ladies don't mind it if you ask to kiss their hands.

Then, If she's especially receptive, I'll kiss each finger gently and caressingly.

If she's receptive to that....then the Full-Lip Monty, usually with both of us "meeting each other halfway."