DataSage’s Alpha Male Guide to Meeting Women (JULY UPDATE!!)

Post Reply New Topic

yeah, tell a girl, who has issues, that shes ugly in a playful manner and see how that goes. For NT girls, beauty is number one importance in their life, its walking on eggshells.

yeah, tell a girl, who has issues, that shes ugly in a playful manner and see how that goes. For NT girls, beauty is number one importance in their life, its walking on eggshells.

Of course you would know they're lying. Thats the point. You said you know you're not ugly cause people tell you you're not. So why do you need another person telling you that? This isn't really about expressing 'romantic interest' cause you dont know the person that well. Its just a girl you're attracted to and want to have a conversation with. Or not even a girl you're attracted too. People give eachother a hard time about whatever. Its just friendly banter

I guess thats a bad example

I dont know. I hate compliments

DataSage’s Alpha Male Guide to Meeting Women (Updated 7/31/07)

For right now, I will be starting out with a rough outline of how to approach and talk to a girl that you don’t know. I will be adding to this guide as time goes on, elaborating on some finer points and going into greater detail, and I would appreciate any feedback you have. I may even expand it if you have anything in particular you want me to address—maybe I can make this into an all encompassing guide one day, concerning not just approaching women, but also what do when you’re dating them. I’ve spent a lot of time testing these things in my own life, and watching it in the lives of others, so I hope this is beneficial in some way to you.

I. Introduction
II. On The Alpha Male, And Asperger’s
III. A Brief Algorithm For The Approach
IV. The Language of Pick-Up

I. Introduction

Howdy everyone! I’ve been cruising around these forums and I’ve noticed that a lot of the guys here with AS are having very basic problems when it comes not only to meeting women, but also how to approach them, and get the ball rolling. Understandably, some of you are younger than others, and some of us have more maturing to do. Regardless, I’d like to help you guys by making this rather brief guide on things that helped me overcome some of those “stiff” social moments we experience with AS. As all of us aspies know, we don’t suddenly wake up and realize our problems and fix them—it’s a constant learning and growing experience through the feedback of others.

Three years ago, I became very frustrated with my relationships with females (I still am frustrated to an extent, but what male isn’t?), particularly with NTs. That’s when I decided I needed to change not only my outlook on dating and the like, but I would also have to make a more potent change to my self-esteem and attitude. I still am “tweaking” myself, so to speak, so I can be as successful as possible with women. But it took me a lot of time, research, and effort to get to where I am now. This little guide will highlight all the things I think are crucial to bring about those changes—I hope maybe some of you guys will find it useful.

First and foremost, I’d like to bring something to the forefront here, and I can’t stress it enough: these problems are typical of ALL males. However, it’s much harder for a male aspie to make a lot of these changes because he is already at a basic disadvantage due to his inability to correctly read body language. And let me tell you, body language is the key to really communicating with women—this is the hardest part, because it will require a tremendous amount of self-coaching if you want to make any progress. But it IS possible; you just need to stick with it.

Another thing is that I encourage all who read this to approach it with an open mind. I realize that for some of you this will be your first time hearing anything like what I’m about to tell you. Some of it will sound downright bizarre but I wouldn’t steer any of you wrong, because I’m here to help, not cause problems.

II. On The Alpha Male, And Asperger’s

I’ve heard a lot of people talking about Alpha Males, and I realize that just like the very concept of popular dating, the term of “Alpha Male” has been given certain definitions and connotations by society and consumer culture. Well, that’s a theme I’m going to stress in this guide heavily: Everything that society and pop culture have told you about women and the way you should act towards them is mythic, and if you’ve heard negative things about Alpha Males, it’s not a shock to me. Understanding and breaking out of these propagated norms is what is going to change your success with women in general, be it if you’re looking for a long term partner, girls to date casually, or to do otherwise with. If you are not prepared to first accept this as reality, then you are not going to be able to accomplish any of the following steps. I leave the choice up to you.

So what is an Alpha Male??
I thought you’d never ask. There’s a lot of ways to explain what an Alpha Male is, but I think an easier way to find out the core meaning of this term is to fully understand what an Alpha Male isn’t. Need an example? Look at roughly 90% of the guys out there. You’ll find they all act the same way. They’re cohersive in the truest sense, they will often times tell a woman exactly what she wants to hear, agree with her on a whim, modify his views/opinions just to validate hers, and most importantly, they’ll try to sweet-talk girls often just to get them into the bedroom.

Well, let me be clear: an Alpha Male engages in none of this. In fact, he does the exact opposite. If he disagrees with a girl, he says so. If he’s got no knowledge on a subject that she does, he’ll acknowledge it. He will be honest about interests, goals, and hobbies, and will probe the woman on hers. He asks questions that are meaningful, and he only engages in in-depth conversations that he is passionate about. He is decisive, says what he means, and means what he says. If he likes a girl, he’s upfront about it. If he’s rejected, he thinks nothing of it, and never views anything as a failure, only as a learning experience. He is modest about his success, he is able, and he is confident to the extent that he needs no one’s opinions or support to validate his own.

You would not believe how much women get turned on by all of that subconsciously. It is hardwired in their brains, and once you can start exhibiting some of these traits, you’ll really be able to connect with any woman you want to. Similarly, you’ll be able to choose yourself who you feel you have the best connection with, and like I said, this will all come as a product of repetition.

Fantastic, now how does this tie into dating?
Ok, ok, I know what you’re asking… “But DataSage, tons and tons of guys are getting married later in life and having kids, and if 90% of guys aren’t ‘Alpha Males,’ how are they getting with women?” Well there’s a simple answer for that: marriage does not equal happiness. There are many men out there now in unsatisfying relationships, be they marriages or otherwise, and that’s because they lack a very essential ingredient in their love life: choice. Most guys are limiting themselves, whether it is out of fear of rejection or fear of conveying a “manwhore” image to others. The original concept of “dating” is to find someone suitable—someone who compliments you and who you approve of. You’re not going to be able to do this successfully unless you maximize your selection. Remember, we’re not putting emphasis so much on finding “the one,” as we are meeting women. Simply put, if you don’t meet enough women, you will not find “the one.” It may have been different 60 or 70 years ago, but in an information-driven era, networking is crucial in all aspects of life—even dating.

Unfortunately, people in today’s world seem to engage in two types of dating: the static kind, or the unfettered kind. Neither is good when it comes to building happiness in a love life, and neither one of them yields positive results. That’s why I’m here to help you throw away that old dating paradigm. As of this moment, I want you disregard everything you think (or thought) about dating. We’re going to start with a clean slate.

You’ve heard me say before that we’ve been socialized into thinking certain ways about certain things thanks to the societies we live in. In western culture, there is a high amount of emphasis placed on the woman, and how guys are supposed to be competing over women, playing their games of hard-to-get and grab-ass as if it’s some sort of marathon as to who can last out the longest. Ironically enough, despite this commercialized social trend, guys have become, in fact, LESS assertive. While women are expecting guys to make the moves, guys aren’t making them. Why do you think that is? There’s a whole host of reasons, but the most logical one in my view is the fact that too many guys are bent out of shape as to how and why they’re even approaching women. There is too much thought being put into something which should be highly instinctual. Again, this is because of the way we’ve been socialized, but I think what I’ve just outlined in this paragraph explains two important things about daily interaction between male and females: a.) men are fed up because they think that women are somehow different, and will not risk much if there is even a chance of rejection, and b.) women are fed up because they’re attracted to all these great guys who will not put the moves on them, and aren’t assertive at all. Do a girl a favor, guys; hit on her, make her feel good—it means something in the world we live in today.

That’s why I think it’s most important that we start thinking about dating differently. If we do, we have success that the majority of the male race at this point in time could only dream of having.

If you look around and talk to most people, whether they’re serious about dating other individuals or not, you’ll notice how stale the whole system is. 99% of the time, it’s the same thing: girl meets guy, guy asks girl out, they go on a date (usually comprising of dinner and a movie), and more likely than not, nothing really happens between them. To top it all off, (mostly) every woman, especially those who really are looking for that one man in their life, will go through this grind hundreds of times, often without any measurable success. I have a lot of female friends, and if it’s one thing I hear uniformly from all of them, it’s their frustration with guys doing the same thing over and over again.

Thankfully, you can cash in on this from the get-go. The approach will undoubtedly be the most important thing in terms of meeting women, because it’s going to make or break you in EVERY INSTANCE. I don’t mean to scare you, but subconsciously, the most time you’ll ever have with any girl, including that person you marry someday, will be the first 2-3 minutes of the initial interaction. Everything after that (dating) is supplementary to the established emotion from those first couple of minutes. So the way to make every situation in your favor is to break molds. Women love to be socially caught off guard around men, whether they acknowledge that or not, because it creates tension, and tension creates that sexual feeling way down God-knows-where which gets their hormones and emotional gears turning. Once you accomplish this with any woman, you will be able to evaluate her accordingly to your own standards, and even decide if she’s worth dating, because she will open up to you once you affect her emotions in a positive manner.

Don’t look at dating in a linear fashion; there are no “highs” and “lows,” no “booms” or “busts.” See dating as a circle. There is only change. Every girl you meet resides outside the circle, and it’s your job to decide which of them gets in. If a girl leaves the circle on her own accord, you must realize that she left for the exact reason every girl leaves every guy (REGARDLESS of the situation): she expected something that you could not give her, and that is not your problem, it’s hers.

Alright, but why is this so important if I have AS?
It’s important for the simple reason that so many AS guys seem to put a rather disproportionate amount of energy and emotional dedication into their relationships with females. And if they’re not putting in the energy directly, they’re moping about how they’ll be alone or how they were rejected by that one girl in 10th grade biology. Unfortunately, we can’t simply change who we are as individuals and what makes us happy, as that is not only next to impossible, but it’s also wrong. We can change behavior and reactions, however, our needs and desires are at the mercy of our hearts and souls, which are the two things that make us who we are as individuals.

On the flipside, those of us with AS have two character “flaws” which work to our advantage compared to NT males: a.) we don’t have a problem holding our ground and bowing into the status quo, and b.) we are incredibly loyal to those we care about. Simply put, in some ways, we really are tailored to work well with our female counterparts. The challenge is changing the things that put us at disadvantages: body language, voice tone, and our over-analytical nature. Yes, I understand that being “over-analytical” can come in use in other parts of life, but when it comes to social interaction and relationships, it generally only brings more pain and higher anxiety to situations that don’t warrant it. The term “making mountains our of mole hills” applies here.

Us male aspies are not good at taking in the subtle nature of body language, and unfortunately, so much of this seduction material has to do with body language! Often times, I’ve learned, you don’t really need to say anything in particular to get a woman interested in you… it all has to do with rather subtle movements, eye contact, and physical contact. The best way to use and master this type of body language (and I know it’s tough, because you’re not aware of it), is to act as casually as possible. Imagine that you’re having a party with your guy friends; you’re cracking jokes, reminiscing, having a beer, and enjoying yourself. “Acting casual,” when you think about it is a result of having no stress related to the present—it is a state of mind where only now matters at that exact moment.

Think about that. Comprehend it. Feel it. Now just think how comfortable you can make women feel by acting this way around them. Put it together with confidence, talking about interests that you’re passionate about, and being assertive, and you have a formula that now makes you available to 90% more of the female population. And for those of us with AS, we want to overcome our disability, and we want to improve our social lives… what better way to make a statement about overcoming the odds by having the ability to talk to any woman you want, have her interested, and maybe date her? That’s not trickery—it’s self improvement.


III. A Brief Algorithm For The Approach

STEP 1 – Leave Your Comfort Zone
Yes, yes, we all know, none of us like change. And if we are to deal with change, we need to know ahead of time. Well guess what? Now’s your chance, because the only change is going to come from within—so you’re the one who’s going to dictate how and when these changes happen. But you have to have discipline, and you can’t back out at the last moment.

When I say “Leave Your Comfort Zone,” I’m talking about putting yourself in situations you normally wouldn’t. In this context, it’s meeting and/or talking to girls. Do you see a girl that’s attractive sitting in a restaurant? Or maybe you see a cute girl at the mall? You have to do what we all dread. You have to talk to her. But the real question is… how do you do that?

Well, maybe that’s the wrong question to be asking. The question we should be asking is how to do we prepare ourselves and put ourselves into a state where we CAN just go up and talk to them? It’s not as complicated as you would think. For those who’ve never just walked up to a girl and struck up a conversation, this will be extremely hard to do at first. Yet you only have to do a couple of things to make it actually work.

STEP 2 – Don’t hesitate.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen friends of mine do this. The longer you sit there wondering if you should/shouldn’t talk her, and the longer you analyze the situation, and the longer you sit there considering the consequences, the harder it’s going to be for you to do it in the first place. If you see a girl you like, who you think you’d like to talk to: JUST DO IT. Start walking towards her, and do it in a casual fashion. And for the love of God, make sure you’re smiling; you’d be surprised how far this goes with a woman. It’s the simplest part of meeting a girl, but it can easily become the most problematic if you don’t address it.
But not hesitating doesn’t end after you strike up small talk. Hesitation is something women can pick up on very quickly in conversation, and it’s not an attractive quality. If you’re not on top of the conversation, if you’re not engaged, she will lose interest in you. One of the most important things I tell guys to do is ask questions—ask lots of them, because women love it when guys ask for their opinion/thoughts/views on any subject. To parallel this, I also tell guys to make sure that if they’re asked a question, they respond in a quick, non-hesitant manner. Like I’ve said before: say what you mean, and mean what you say. If you try to sugarcoat something, or “beat around the bush,” as they say, the woman will pick up on it. Doing as I explained gives the girl a frame of reference, so she knows what you’re about, and knows you are who you are, and most importantly, is damn proud of it.

STEP 3 – Don’t care whether she likes you or not.
This is an aggravating concept to come to terms with, but it’s a great philosophy because it makes the idea of being rejected go completely extinct. If you see a girl that you like, especially one you haven’t talked to yet, don’t start running scenarios through your head about what your action with her will lead to. Approach it casually. What you’re looking for is a conversation and a connection, hopefully one with common ground—NOT a girlfriend. It’s an odd dynamic, but you have to really “not care” about whether or not this girl connects with you. I mean seriously: who cares? Not every girl you see should be qualified as a possible date; that qualification should come AFTER you’ve talked to them, and it should come from you, not her. This is why we have standards guys—if we didn’t, then what would the point of talking to women be? Not every girl you talk to should qualify as someone you’d want to date in your mind, and this takes a little bit of realism on your part, as well as self honesty.

But seriously, taking an all or nothing approach towards women doesn’t work, and will only bring you anxiety. The paradoxes of the male nature amaze me when I look at them objectively. Most males will engage in activities that women wouldn’t, yet the very idea of being rejected by a girl they find attractive is out of the question. I remember one particular dating guru I listened to, he had a friend, and he asked him what the craziest thing he had ever done. His friend said that he did an extreme downhill mountain biking trek without any gear on, or a helmet. Yet, this was the same guy who was having an awful hard time meeting women because he simply was terrified of just the possibility that a girl wouldn’t like him.

Unbelievable. Just let that sink in, guys.

STEP 4 – Don’t put the girl on a pedestal.
This is a big problem, especially for guys with AS, because we tend to weigh our social success as a whole on those few tense social moments. Get yourself in a mindset. As men, we are a minority—that’s right, statistically, there are more women on the Earth than men, and do you realize what that means? They’re competing over us! So if the girl doesn’t dig you, it’s their loss, not yours. You know you have something great to offer, and you want to offer it to the right type of girls. If a girl isn’t feeling you for whatever reason, then they’re not worthy of the things you may want to share with them (that’s if you’re attracted to them, of course). Think of it in an elementary school analogy: you’re at lunch and you ask a kid to trade a snack. He says no, right off the bat. So why would you want to trade with him if he doesn’t want to trade with you? Exactly the same applies to women.


STEP 5 – Control and direct the conversation.
If you do manage to finally strike up a conversation, you have to be the one to really drive things; ask her questions, girls love to talk about themselves. If you get them going enough, they’ll start to ask you questions, and the conversation will gain momentum. If you can get to this point, you’re in very good shape, but you have to be assertive—don’t back down, and make sure you’re keeping the other things I’ve been talking about in mind. If you do that, you will become very relaxed and you will be able to truly be yourself, and the girl WILL notice it. Women have an incredible sense when it comes to sniffing out social facades, and if she doesn’t detect one around you, you’ve already made an impact.

STEP 6 – Make her laugh.
If it’s one thing that makes girls comfortable, it’s when they feel they can laugh around someone. And despite what many girls tell you, they LOVE to be teased, and they love it when guys break their balls (figuratively, heh). If you’re in a conversation and a girl is rambling on, cut it and put the ball in her court. Say something like “Excuse me, for one moment, I just want to know, do you always hit on guys at this store?” Or even better, I’ll give you a more personal example of mine. I was recently at the bowling alley, and this girl was playing in the lane next to me. I started talking to her and she told me she played softball (at my college, no less). After she told me that little piece of information, I turned it around on her. I said: “Well, I hope you play softball better than you bowl.” I had her laughing like crazy, and five minutes later, I had her number. If she says something or tells an over the top story, call her a brat, and make it CLEAR it’s a joke in your body language. (this will take tremendous self-coaching as I said before, given our disadvantages) If you do this enough, you’ve already proved your unique nature to her, and she will make it clear she’s interested in you.

STEP 7 – Always be the one to end the conversation.
THIS IS HUGE. Believe me, it works. The ability to just get up and end a conversation, or just walk away from a situation, conveys so much to a woman. It explains to them subconsciously that you’re a confident person and most of all, that you’re not needy (we aspies have a hard time acting needy). This becomes an essential part of getting to the next step with that girl, because it really puts everything in perspective for them. To them, they see it this way: a guy came up, we talked, he made me laugh, we had a fun conversation, and then he left. To a woman, this is rare; they’re used to being hounded by men, and never left alone. The fact you did this puts you in a different bracket from other guys, just based on some simple behavior, and trust me, if you get this down enough, YOU WILL reap the benefits.


IV. The Language of Pick-up

“Talking little, saying a lot”
What I’ve written above in the previous section is a rough skeleton of what every approach needs to be successful. Again, this isn’t a 100% every time deal, because you’re going to need to make a mental note of how every girl reacts to you, thus adjusting your game to their own personality. Yes, this cannot be accomplished through reading, I believe the only real way to improve in this aspect is through actual contact with as many women as possible. It’s like riding a bike—you’ll never learn how to stay on if you don’t take a couple of falls.

Yet I will say that there are very subtle elements to perfecting your game, and turning it into something that actually yields results. Confidence is the foundation from which everything else will be built. As stated before, if you don’t have confidence, you’re socially bankrupt from the start. Refer to the earlier parts of this guide to understand why you should be confident around women at all times, and why social interaction between a male and a female generally always puts the male in an advantageous position. The key is to always say something—girls like to talk, but they don’t like to listen to people BS. Females have an incredible knack at picking that stuff up on the fly.

One of the things everyone here is going to have to understand is that language and word choice do mean a lot when it comes to the subconscious of human beings (as does body language, which we’ve briefly talked about). In fact, did you know that women base whether or not they can potentially be with someone off of just the first five seconds of social contact? It’s absolutely true. And it doesn’t give guys a whole lot of time to do anything amazing; however, if you do or say things in the right way, you can have a high rate of success. For instance, I use this model of first contact (or a variation of it) if I’m at a place like a bar, and I see one or more girls sitting together that I may be interested in. But first, let’s see a standard guy version of it:

Guy: Hi ladies.
Girl 1: Hi.
Girl 2: Hello.
Guy: So, can I ask you guys a question?
Girl 2: Yeah.
Guy: Okay so I have this friend, and he’s kind of having problems with his girlfriend. And I need to see what you think.
Girl 1: Okay.

Let’s stop it right there. I’m going to go further in my version, but I want to point out the blatant problems with the conversation listed above. Do you know where he went wrong? Right from the start. And it only got worse because he asked them if it was okay to ask them a question; kind of redundant and self-defeating, no? And to make matter even worse than that, he then leads into his question by once again restating what he’s already said and looking for their approval again when he states “And I need to see what you think.” So how would I handle this you ask? And does this really matter? Please humor me, but it’s icebreakers like this that can make or break any approach, depending on how you do it.

Ideally, I’d shoot for something like this…

Me: Hey guys, my name’s Jonathan.
Girl 1: Hi, I’m Ashley.
Girl 2: Melissa.
Me: Alright, so I need a female opinion, and you two look like genuine people. So here it goes, it’s about this friend of mine over there, right? Dude with the funny looking face? Yeah him. He’s been having this problem with his girlfriend, where she’s kind of upset with him because he still has a shoebox full of stuff from a previous relationship he had which lasted about two years. Does she have a right to be upset that he still has all that stuff?
Girls: blah blah blah well how long have they been dating blah blah blah is he still looking through the shoebox on a regular basis blah blah blah
Me: Well, they’ve been dating for about six months now. And no he doesn’t hang over his past, he just keeps it under his nightstand, and that bothers her. So, do you think she has a right to be upset?
Girls: blah blah blah blah blah she sounds controlling blah blah blah does he still talk to his ex blah blah blah
Me: Yeah, well he talks to his ex occasionally. Like maybe, once a month, maybe not even that. So given that information, should she still be mad at him?
Girls: blah blah blah blah blah no I think it’s fine blah blah blah I wouldn’t worry about it blah blah blah blah blah she sounds kind of crazy blah blah
Me: Yeah, well, that’s what I thought. I mean if it was my girlfriend, I’d be having a serious talk with her about control issues. Have you guys ever had a problem like that with your current or past boyfriends?

See what I did here? Right from the start, I’m stand up about who I am. Before they can even answer my greeting, I tell them what my name is, and I go in with a casual attitude and a smile on. And once they tell me their names, I jump right into it, and I let them talk after I finish my question. I listen to them. I keep giving them new information, changing the scenario with each social volley so as to keep asking for their opinion, not once, but three times. On top of all this, notice my word usage: I call them “guys”—I treat them like a kid sister or something. I don’t just ask them that I need an opinion… I need a FEMALE opinion, which is the reason why I’m there. I throw a little jab in there at my wingman by calling him “funny looking” to lighten things up. And since I’m asking their opinion on something related to relationships, it allows me to easily segue into another conversation about their lives and relationship status without coming across as desperate or creepy.

In the same respect, I’ve given them my opinion at the end in response to theirs, this time in agreement. I reveal an important piece of information about myself—if I were in the same situation, I’d stand up for myself, and not take that kind of female manipulation. On a subconscious level, this is an extremely powerful technique with women. In the world of seduction and dating gurus, this is called “demonstrating value.”

So let’s recap real quickly. So far I’ve a.) successfully opened up and engaged in conversation with not just one, but two women, b.) given them something they can talk about for a couple of minutes without things getting dull, c.) not hesitated, and treated them like I would a guy friend, and d.) demonstrated my personal value.

Most of the time in a situation such as this, you’ll want to leave them hanging, looking for more. During intial conversation, you’ll be given what are called IOIs (indiactors of interest). With women, this can range anywhere from playfully arguing to modest touching, though to be honest, it’s a lot easier to get a girl to touch you on the shoulder or something if you touch them first. We’ll get into personal contact later (some have a word for this called “keno”), but since this section is mostly based on the linguistic side of the interaction, let’s just stick to the basics for now.

Basic IOIs: What you’re both thinking, but not saying
I want to first address the most basic IOI that all men miss out on by virtue of a lack of self-esteem. It’s the most common, and it’s also the most puzzling, since it’s the most obvious IOI there is. If a girl EVER, in any circumstance, initiates conversation with you, they ARE interested in you, whether it be consciously or subconsciously. There is no second guessing here. Females DO NOT talk to guys on their own accord that they’re not interested in. It just doesn’t happen. Sure, she might not be saying “Oh this guy looks like he could be cool, maybe we could possibly date, and even get married someday,” but her brain is definitely entering her into a situation she WANTS to be in. Always assume in this case that you are being given a freebie, and never doubt yourself.

Another one is if she asks you whether or not you have a girlfriend. I don’t think this needs to be explained given everything else I’ve said.

Body language has to do a lot with the way women give off IOIs. For basic examples, her playing with her hair while she’s talking to you, tilting her head, or her licking her lips all denote some form of sexual tension and interest, whether she realizes it or not. I’m not saying this means she wants to sleep with you immediately, but what I am saying here is that she’s attracted to you if she’s doing these things. I’m using the term “sexual tension” in a very broad manner, so don’t go crazy when you read that and think I’m trying to teach you how to be a womanizer—because I’m not.

To keep on the subject of language, women generally don’t use the same language men use. This can be problematic for those of us with AS, because we take verbal communication very literally, and analyze almost every single piece of information that’s thrown at us through regular conversation. I’ll give you a perfect example. Say you’re engaging a woman in casual conversation and you’re making her laugh by throwing out little jokes here and there. You say in a joking manner, “Yeah, well you know I’m a shy person.” Her response would probably be “Hmm, you don’t seem so shy to me.”

Now how would the typical aspie handle that? For some reason, I think they’d say something to the effect of, “No really, I’m shy. You only just met me. At school it’s really bad blah blah blah blah.” Stop this. You’re misreading her. Even if you are a shy person, that’s irrelevant at this point in the interaction and you need to continue to humor her. Don’t go all cold on her. Continue your rhythm. It should go something like this:

You: Yeah, well you know, I’m a pretty shy person.
Her: You don’t seem shy to me.
You: Well, that’s just because I’m only shy around people I’m not comfortable with.
Her: Oh, so you’re comfortable around me?
You: Woah, woah. I know you find me attractive, but seriously, you’re going to have to calm down with the insinuations. This is a bookstore.
Her: Hahaha, oh stop.

David DeAngelo calls this “Cocky-Funny.” The thing that’s genius about C-F is that it’s easy to gauge its success. For example, in the conversation above, her saying “Oh, so you’re comfortable around me?” is pretty indicative of her interest in the conversation, and more importantly, in you. Women will never say more than they have to—unless of course they want to. So if they’re playing along with the shtick, and they’re obviously having fun, consider that an IOI in and of itself.

C-F is a pretty crucial blend of the nuances in our language: not what we say, but how we say it. This can also be difficult for those of us with AS because it obviously involves a certain level of tonal perception. Saying “Yeah well you know, when you’re this sexy, it’s tough to go out in public” about yourself can come across either funny as hell, or it can turn a girl off completely. Most people reading this who have AS right now are going to say “Oh geeze, that’s the most dickheaded thing I’ve heard,” but that’s because you’re just looking at the words. Women do not interpret messages like that. They look for the emotion or the feeling associated with what you’re saying as an indicator of what you truly mean. To no surprise, they do the same thing on their end. If a girl says to you “Haha, so do you always hit on strange women this way?” that’s basically her way of saying “This conversation needs to continue and I want to hear you say something witty again.” Whether or not they know it consciously is a different story.

Seriously, it’s just that simple. If you can come up with your own material (and it’s not hard to make a girl laugh, trust me), you just need to put the appropriate components together for some good interaction. This will ultimately result in the girl relaxing and letting loose—she’ll feel more comfortable around you, and it will give you precedent for some possible keno.

Advanced IOIs and how to play them
Another common IOI that you’ll get from women (particularly the more socially savvy ones) is that they’ll try to throw a cute little jab at you as a test. This is type IOI is a little more advanced, because it serves two purposes. It seeks to a.) challenge your value (which you’ve hopefully demonstrated by now) and b.) tell you that she’s interested and she wants to see what else you’ve got. For instance:

Her: Haha, are you always like this?
You: Like what? Alive?
Her: Haha, no. I mean this funny.
You: Yes. I understand that you’re attracted to this, don’t worry, I’ll be asking for your phone number soon. Slow down there, Speedy Gonzalez.

They’ll try to do stuff like this all the time. As long as you keep hitting back with the comments and the original stuff, you can handle any situation easily.

Another rather advanced IOI is if they say very little, but maintain eye contact. This means she’s basically enjoying herself. She’s enjoying the questions, she’s enjoying the conversation—she’s enjoying you. If you can keep your rhythm up you can throw her another curveball with the C-F formula…

Her: *staring at you after you’re done talking*
You: You’re staring at my lips aren’t you?
Her: Haha
You: It’s okay, a lot of women do that. You’d be lucky just to be kissed on your forehead.
Her: Hahaha oh dear hahahah blah blah blah blah

So basically to recap, you want to stay tight with your game. You want to be ready for whatever she says, but you can’t be tense about it, else they’ll sense that as well. The best way to get in this state of mind? Go back to earlier in the guide. You have to remain confident and relaxed throughout the whole process, even when picking up and giving off IOIs.

Confidence is the foundation. Cocky-funny are the building blocks.

More will be added to this in the coming days/weeks. Thanks for reading, and I’ll be willing to answer any questions here in the thread.

~ Jonathan, aka DataSage

Update Log
12.2.06 – Initial posting. Talked mainly about the 7-step approach.
1.3.07 – Added a section describing the Alpha Male, and explained why seduction is especially important to those with Asperger’s.
7.31.07 – Huge update. About five pages worth of stuff on pick-up language and IOIs.

As an NT female, I agree with your statement about telling a woman/girl that she's ugly. If someone were to tell me that, I'd know they were lying because I know I'm rather attractive (or so I've been told quite often, and not just by my boyfriend). Also, I don't like playing games, and being "playful" in a negative way is quite annoying. I prefer a direct indication of one's romantic interests in me, though I am very good at spotting an unconfessed interest. I prefer people to be more direct, which is I guess why I like my boyfriend (undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome, been dating for 3 yrs) so much. Being insulting is a tip that I've seen suggested in books about seduction (the "how to seduce anyone" type of books). Those books offer good advice about getting attention from someone by giving both a compliment and an insult to keep them interested. If you tell someone they are ugly, you will almost always get a strong emotional response due to insulting their pride about a quality that is universally and fundamentally important, that being beauty and how they appear to others. These skills will help you get a woman's attention, but will be detrimental to creating a positive and long-term romantic relationship. I would probably think such an approach would be immature and insincere, and I would definitely not be impressed in a positive way. Why would a man who is interested and genuinely attracted to a woman tell her she's ugly? I'm very intuitive and good at spotting mind games, so I guess that fact that my boyfriend, after getting to know me a bit, let me know he was romantically interested in me was a breath of fresh air, something refreshingly original and welcome compared to the usually vapid come-ons I'd get, but then, I might be the exception. This tip might be useful for approaching girls, but would not be good for approaching women. Some of advice given in the original post might be good for approaching women, but the bit of advice about insulting a woman's looks, even jokingly, seems to be a pretty bad idea. Most women my age that I know (having received a B. A. and maybe getting a M.A. at a university) would not care for such an approach and would probably find it silly.

What, is "data sage", Mystery or something?

If you are an alpha male then you are an alpha male and if you aren't then you will never be. Data Sage isn't an alpha male just because he has discovered how to manipulate women. There are genuinely guys who could give a sh** less about getting laid and are more focused on their career or creating something. This is the true alpha male. You can't fake that sh** and women are smart enough to detect it, well, the elite women will detect it. Asperettes will defintely detect it. Be yourself. IF you aren't an alpha male, don't fake it.

Sorry.. kinda long, but lumping all females under one label is just not right.
Same with thinking that all males that are not silverbacks will try to be silverbacks.. thats wrong..




/me looks at the comment
/me looks at the name
/me looks at the comment
/me looks at the title
/me *sighs*

Hi I understand your the owner/creator/developer of WP.. great site thanks..
But I have NO clue what your like, or how well you take someone disagreeing with you.
Why did you have to be the first person to say 'Females are programmed'?
I am sorry, but personally I find that such a generalised statement, it is disturbing in a way, since it came from a person that created a site that I think is to show and allow other individuals differences.. not lump everyone together.

1st - I am very much a female
2nd - I am not, nor have I ever been 'programmed' to seek out alpha males (or as I see them, silverbacks)
3rd - You used the term 'most animals' .. are programmed.. Well, if we all acted like most animals, and how they are programmed -
I think the world would be a lot more open minded place, and very sexually free.

- Human Females - in general, seek, want crave the monogamous relationships
- Human Males - in general, do not seek nor wish for a monogamous relationship - they tend to 'settle down' when 'older', but most still look/fantasise

- other species - in the wildlife kingdom, there are only a handful of monogamous species - maybe 6 or 7 from what I recall..
and how many species are there?
- in the wildlife kingdom, females species, have been known to, have sex with males, females their uncles, aunts, cousins and their own offspring/children etc.. etc...
- in the wildlife kingdom - some are born hermaphrodites, some male, some female
If a male dog or female for that matter, decides to mount another of the same sex, do you think the other animals call them gay or lesbians?
- The bonobos have sexual games they play -

The King of the Jungle - The proud Lion - some say the best example of the qualities of an Alpha Male

- this is the best example of the lion matting ritual I have ever read



Does that sound very Alpha male to anyone?


Sorry for the rant at you Alex, but, generalising really gets to me.

/me goes and waits her punishment

Yes, women are quick to pick up on social facade.

Please do work on your confidence and make me laugh, but do not ever try to establish my dependance on you through put downs or condescension. I will at first be confused, and later sickened. Tone down the cocky. And you'd do well to remember married men live longer.

I don't like guys that are high up on the social ladder, I prefer the less popular ones because they're more on my wavelength. And these "alpha" types mentioned in this thread are nob heads anyway because they think they're the bees knees with ther big posse of friends that worship them.
I think the whole "women tend to go for the more high up men" thing would apply more to the women that are also very high up socially.

i heart this philosphy.

honestly, a guy who is confidently *himself* is way sexier than an alpha male type. expertise/knowledge and confidence are sexy, at least to this aspie female - not alpha-male style arrogance. by confidence, i mean a male who accepts himself for who he is, and doesn't try to force the upper hand.

alpha males come across as jerks to me in real life, and i don't like that at all.