This "nice guys vs jerks" nonsense has to stop.

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But sunshower, AS guys can and DO get girls!
But lets face it: Being nice to a gal that you are attracted to and wanna hook with is is NOT going to make her attracted to you unless she feels that way already. The mistake made by *nice guys* is that by being nice to a woman you make her feel like owes you sex in return, but the fact is she does NOT. If a woman you happen to fancy doesnt find You attractive, then cut you losses and MOVE ON. But most of all, DO NOT EVER compromise your personal pride and self-respect for the sake of a woman!! Dont be an effing doormat, putting her on a pedestal because shes a woman will make you look desperate and *that* is clearly not attractive.

I hope by "move on" you mean "stop trying to have a romantic relationship with" and NOT "stop talking to and spending time with altogether".

Because I can promise you, one of the most repulsively unattractive qualities a man can have is to only interact with women they would like to have sex with. If a woman gets the feeling that you will immediately stop interacting with her if there is no chance of sex, her feelings of repulsion will be so strong you'll be pushed across the room.

But if you are actually just advocating not stalking a woman who has said "no", then carry on.

Women don't like to be stalked. But women also don't like to feel that a man finds their company to be worthless without the chance of sex. It really isn't a fine line. There is a huge chasm between "efffing doormat"/stalker and "if I can't %$#$ you I won't talk to you". And true nice guys inhabit that enormous middle ground pretty easily.

Correct.



Thats a good point, but sometimes the sexual tension really gets in the way if there's a one way attraction. What I discovered by my mid-20s is that once you're not a teenager anymore, platonic relationships with members of the opposite sex(for straight folks ) are increasingly difficult to forge and maintain. But if a guy is really just after sex he should do everything to be DISCRETE about it and conceal it as much as possible. Sex is the one thing that you fellas should never be direct with woman about!

Putting them on a pedestal? Oh dear, is someone taking advice from The 40 Year Old Virgin.

Not all of them by a long shot. It does hurt your odds. I think this thread is more focused on the ones who can't or don't. Not everyone with AS is alike. Just because some can doesn't mean that some aren't handicapped in that regard.



I am.

But that's not really the point. It's the attitude that counts. Knowing that you're awesome is good for projecting confidence.

My advice for nice guys is to just hit on whoever you find attractive, and see what happens. The worst that any girl can say to you is "no". And if you get rejected, who cares? That's life. Forget about it and try again.

You have misunderstood me sunshower: this is exactly the point I was trying to make to SilverStar!! If you're having to turn people down all the time then you will also feel the pain of rejection. It goes both ways. I suppose the only thing that could be worse is if you meet someone who is a perfect match, and for whatever reason you cannot feel love for them.



I have experienced both sides too, thanks, although for me it is girls and not boys.

The assumptions are also incorrect.
For instance, "The truth" is probably closer to...

assertive guys stand a better chance of finding significant others than guys who aren't assertive
jerks are narcissistic a-holes
we happen to notice assertive jerks who have significant others because it validates our whole nice guy/jerk assumption, or mistakenly think some assertive guys are jerks because we are associating an outgoing playful personality with being an a-hole, eg if we mistake jokes for insults and so on.

Goats on Fire, as you post more in this discussion, it becomes increasingly clear why you're having problems with women. The first is what you said in your last post about how "thinking you're awesome projects confidence." No, it projects a cocky and phony attitude that comes off as confidence for a VERY short period of time, and annoys people. True confidence is essentially the quality of NOT needing to tell people how awesome you are, because you have become egoless. Real confidence comes from learning from your mistakes and knowing that what you're doing will work, and that if it doesn't, not getting down on yourself for it.

Secondly, you asked how "blaming yourself" could possibly help. The answer is that most people do not take responsibility for their words and actions, and like to blame everyone else when things go wrong for them. If you want to get good with women, you're going to need to change the way you approach the whole situation, change the way you think about it, and change the way you act. You can't change until you take responsibility for the fact that oftentimes, it is the way YOU ARE ACTING which gets you rejected. This is not to say that if you act "right," every girl will like you--not by a long shot. It means that there are certain things which many women are attracted to, and you need to develop those qualities if you want to have a chance.

Lastly, my perspective is that you use AS as a crutch for why you are unable to get with women. It is true that the social naivete that comes along with AS makes it much more difficult, but it is still learnable. The attitude of "I don't get women because I have AS" once again places the responsibility outside of yourself and makes you the victim--and THERE IS NOTHING IN THIS WORLD LESS ATTRACTIVE TO WOMEN THAN A VICTIM PERSPECTIVE. NOTHING!!

I would like to respectfully disagree with the part in which you refer to GoatOnFire. The concept he is stating is a hard one to explain in words, because it is not a literal concept.

What he means is that - saying you're awesome can create a more confident demeanour if you say it in such a way that the other person knows you mean it in a joking sort of way. As GoatOnFire said, he doesn't believe through and through he is awesome (a.k.a. he is not narcissistic) but saying he's "awesome" to other people can project confidence, as he and the other person both know he's saying it jokingly, but the other person subconsciously is warmed to him (whereas if he put himself down in front of other people, subconsciously the other person starts to associate the putdowns with him as a person).

It's all very psychological, and a lot of it depends entirely on the delivery of the line "I'm awesome" or "I'm cool" and not the line itself. It can be said in the way GoatOnFire describes (which actually can be very effective in attracting girls - but again the problem is delivery and pulling it off in just the right way is no easy feat - so generally I would not recommend aspies try this as managing the underlying tone and body language that goes with it requires some skill), it can be said in a literal way (indicating the speaker is a narcissist and making other people dislike the speaker), or it can be said in a way that sounds like the person is trying to pull the special effect off but didn't succeed (indicating to the other person that the speaker is very insecure in themself and trying to mask it).

Again this is a very complex concept, and a hard one for aspies to grasp.

Blaming yourself for everything is actually not the best way to go (although it is miles better than blaming other people). It is psychologically proven that blaming factors outside of your control, a.k.a. your AS or the circumstances, is a more adaptive and effective technique because then you are less likely to give in to despair and keep trying, or try a different method. However, this technique becomes maladaptive when you start putting the blame on other people specifically - and that's when it can actually hinder your chances of improving.

You're taking what I say way too seriously, not a good idea with me, I tend to be paradoxical and satirical. For the record, I'm not even looking for a woman.

Although if you want to actually talk seriously, the actual purpose of me saying that 'knowing that you're awesome' has nothing to do with going out and telling people that you're awesome, that just pisses people off because they usually want to hear about themselves. It's just telling it to yourself more to banish bad self esteem. It's silly but it makes rejection easier, it's better to just think "her loss" and try again later rather than mope about it. And when rejection is easier to take, that is a step towards confidence. Most of the guys having this problem are not suffering from having self esteem that's too high.

Also there is a difference between blaming yourself and taking responsibility. I was talking about blaming yourself. There's nothing productive about beating yourself up for something in the past. It's more a matter of learning from your mistakes, which can be a problem if you don't know what the mistake was.



What happened to just being yourself?



I can see that. If you take what I say too seriously. Hint: I never even said I couldn't get with women.



Now that's just not true. I know some girls that actively search for victims. Something about them being "vulnerable." They're not the kind of girls you'd want, but there are girls out there that are attracted to that. I could also probably think of other things that are less attractive.

The whole thing is confusing. In all seriousness, I would say that persistence is probably the most important thing if you want to find a girlfriend.

I am coming in the middle of this discussion, so I hope I am on point. Maybe its just semantics, but I personnally would be attracted to a guy who thought I was awsome while a guy (or gal) who thinks him/herself awsome might not have room for me. However, I am attracted to people who value themselves. This might be where some aspies fall down because its hard to value one's self when no one else does.

Thanks, you said it better than I did. I have a hard time rationalizing something abstract so I just try to give an example that unfortunately may be easily misconstrued. The timing is also important. Although I don't think forcing yourself to think better of yourself is a necessarily a bad thing. I'd say more but I have a date with a mirror.



Well, as someone who knows his own awesomeness , I can say that just because I'm awesome doesn't mean that I can't acknowledge someone else for being awesome, too. In fact, you can't be truly awesome unless you can see the awesomeness of others who are awesome. Basically, thinking highly of yourself, but not being disparaging to anyone else.

I hear the mirror calling...

I can't resist a guy who makes me laugh - you really are awsome!!

Yet that date may not reflect well on you!

Yeah, you might get done for manslaughter (for breaking the mirror!)