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With AS, Does no one want to "give?"

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Sallamandrina
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25 Mar 2010, 9:50 am

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ViperaAspis
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25 Mar 2010, 11:57 am

@hopegrows: I will try harder. I take a dim view of people coming here and judging us. I tend to let my emotions get involved when I percieve people as being unfairly maligned.

MichelleRM78 wrote:
Not saying everyone with AS is like this.

Then I have no quarrel with you. I would, however, point out that no less than FOUR people have now pulled out and commented on this same section of your text.

Since you seem interested in learning about us, here is the basis for the misunderstanding:

Reason 1:
Thread title (grammar corrected): Why doesn't anyone with AS want to give?
This is an immediate judgment of a group of people, even if you do not see it as a judgment. Here is the dictionary link to what a judgment is: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/judgment As you can clearly see, while you may not feel this falls under the category of a judgment or being judgmental, that is what this is. If (as you now say) you didn't mean the title in this way, then why did you answer the member's question like you did below:

Reason 2:
Member: Why do you have the impression that THE FORUM POPULATION SEEMS UNINTERESTED IN GIVING?
You: CONFIRMED this impression and used the alleged member comment of "this is what I know how to give and won't take the time to learn to give anything else." as a reason. I cannot find this alleged member comment on any searches of this site, by the way.

Simplest terms:
You. Giving your opinion. About all of us with AS. Judgment. Dictionary agrees.


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HopeGrows
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25 Mar 2010, 12:27 pm

@ViperaAspis - Look, perhaps the phrasing of the initial post could have been better, but I don't think the OP's intent matches your interpretation. (Again, I'm not the OP, so I can't say that for sure, and that statement is based on my own interpretation - which could be flawed.)

But here's why I've given her the benefit of the doubt: I've read her posts and she doesn't come across as a hater to me, at all. She's involved with a guy with AS, and she seems to really care for him and wants to make her relationship with him work - hell, she's re-modeling her house so he can have space to be by himself. That seems like a pretty decent, caring thing to do. And I've read posts from people about what they want from a relationship, and I've caught myself thinking, "Well what are you bringing to the table?" I wouldn't characterize those posts as pervasive, but they do exist.

And you're right, certainly not everyone writes posts that way, or thinks that way. I honestly don't believe the OP meant to imply that. I guess when I read her post, I connected it to an idea that I've had (and probably expressed) that everybody has to change in order to be in a relationship: Aspie or NT. Everybody is going to have to do things they don't want to do, consider things they don't want to consider, be inconvenienced in ways they don't like, etc. It's the difference between living by yourself, and living with someone else. We all make compromises to be in a relationship, and probably even more compromises to be in a happy, healthy relationship. I think it makes sense to expect that. Anyway, that's what the post made me think of.


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MichelleRM78
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25 Mar 2010, 1:03 pm

ViperaAspis wrote:
@hopegrows: I will try harder. I take a dim view of people coming here and judging us. I tend to let my emotions get involved when I percieve people as being unfairly maligned.

MichelleRM78 wrote:
Not saying everyone with AS is like this.

Then I have no quarrel with you. I would, however, point out that no less than FOUR people have now pulled out and commented on this same section of your text.

Since you seem interested in learning about us, here is the basis for the misunderstanding:

Reason 1:
Thread title (grammar corrected): Why doesn't anyone with AS want to give?
This is an immediate judgment of a group of people, even if you do not see it as a judgment. Here is the dictionary link to what a judgment is: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/judgment As you can clearly see, while you may not feel this falls under the category of a judgment or being judgmental, that is what this is. If (as you now say) you didn't mean the title in this way, then why did you answer the member's question like you did below:

Reason 2:
Member: Why do you have the impression that THE FORUM POPULATION SEEMS UNINTERESTED IN GIVING?
You: CONFIRMED this impression and used the alleged member comment of "this is what I know how to give and won't take the time to learn to give anything else." as a reason. I cannot find this alleged member comment on any searches of this site, by the way.

Simplest terms:
You. Giving your opinion. About all of us with AS. Judgment. Dictionary agrees.


*sigh* I am not going to go around and around about my wording anymore, after this. I feel I clarified and also apologized if it came across differently. I didn't want the title to be "Why doesn't anyone with AS want to give?" It should have been more like "Are there people with AS who are willing to give?" or "To those with AS- what do you feel you can GIVE in a relationship?" I don't sit and contemplate every word of my post (remember, I am one of those NT people who doesn't necessarily communicate perfectly through the written word). Again, in case it was missed, I didn't give an opinion about ALL of anything. I didn't write that and certainly don't believe that any description about personality or intention fits any group.

I appreciate the benefit of the doubt HopeGrows (and the others who shared it). I am not a hater at all. I also have very little tact and absolutely NO way with words. Maybe that's why I spend so much time asking questions of people and am very willing to explain and clarify my thoughts and intentions. I expect perfection of no one. I also assume decent intent. The defensive posts, to me, help me to understand what phrasing people find offensive. I don't brush it off as nothing-- and I am glad for the feedback.

Anyway, I still do appreciate and enjoy the responses to the original intent.



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25 Mar 2010, 2:02 pm

HopeGrows wrote:
@ViperaAspis - Look, perhaps the phrasing of the initial post could have been better, but I don't think the OP's intent matches your interpretation. (Again, I'm not the OP, so I can't say that for sure, and that statement is based on my own interpretation - which could be flawed.)

But here's why I've given her the benefit of the doubt: I've read her posts and she doesn't come across as a hater to me, at all. She's involved with a guy with AS, and she seems to really care for him and wants to make her relationship with him work - hell, she's re-modeling her house so he can have space to be by himself. That seems like a pretty decent, caring thing to do. And I've read posts from people about what they want from a relationship, and I've caught myself thinking, "Well what are you bringing to the table?" I wouldn't characterize those posts as pervasive, but they do exist.

And you're right, certainly not everyone writes posts that way, or thinks that way. I honestly don't believe the OP meant to imply that. I guess when I read her post, I connected it to an idea that I've had (and probably expressed) that everybody has to change in order to be in a relationship: Aspie or NT. Everybody is going to have to do things they don't want to do, consider things they don't want to consider, be inconvenienced in ways they don't like, etc. It's the difference between living by yourself, and living with someone else. We all make compromises to be in a relationship, and probably even more compromises to be in a happy, healthy relationship. I think it makes sense to expect that. Anyway, that's what the post made me think of.


Thanks. I had not read any other posts. Your thought process and actions have been more wise than mine. NTs that wish to help us, be kind to us, and be a part of this community are welcome here. Those that are here to be nasty or take out their anger on us are not (and we do get these from time to time). I wasn't sure of the OP's original intent - the title seemed questionable. At first, I shared your idea of giving the benefit of the doubt (although her calling another member paranoid was irksome). Sound's request for clarification is what put me over. The OP did not deny that she felt this way about us. Having worked on "gift giving" after struggling with it in past relationships, I became very angry and sounded off accordingly. I should have waited to cool down before responding.

Great relationship compromise analysis as well; excellent points on all fronts.

Thank you, Hopegrows.

@MichelleRM78: I am switching back into "benefit of the doubt" mode. I hope you will continue to grow and interact with us, helping others and sharing valuable insights with this community.


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HopeGrows
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25 Mar 2010, 2:25 pm

ViperaAspis wrote:
I became very angry and sounded off accordingly. I should have waited to cool down before responding.

Thank you, Hopegrows.


You're welcome, @ViperaAspis. And umm, I've actually done the above once or twice myself. :oops:


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25 Mar 2010, 2:27 pm

PLA wrote:
I haven't had many opportunities to attend or nurse someone ill. I've had some experiences, and it was generally good, but I still haven't had a chance to hold someone's hair back while they "pray before the porcelain goddess". I'd like to do that sometime.


I have ( 3 times) and I was surprisingly ok at it. Once I nursed a girl who was 5 inches taller than me but nearly passing out drunk, I had to hold up her entire body with one arm and keep her head over a bucket with the other. Alcohol and party pills= bad birthday party.


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25 Mar 2010, 4:10 pm

MichelleRM78 wrote:
alana wrote:
very good point. I have a list of things I think I would really enjoy. I don't even think I can write them out, and because they sound silly and sappy and make me sound like June Cleaver. My inner feminist is definitely at odds with my submissive side. If I could be a housewife I would, but I know that will never happen. I'm sad about it really, but I would love to wait on someone hand and foot, if I ever got the opportunity, which I won't. It sucks. I actually feel something akin to grief about this because it is a side of me that I don't think is ever going to be fulfilled. I have to work and support myself and that will never change. Even if I got the chance I don't know if I could let someone support me because of the power thing and having my own money. That sounds like taking rather than giving but it isn't if you are creating a home for someone and cooking and cleaning, etc.


That actually sounds very much like giving. I enjoy doing those things for someone as well :D


yeah, I think based on the posts here I can see how someone could come to the conclusion you have because there are lots of 'deficit of sexual activity' posts and I haven't seen any 'deficit of serving a lover' posts. I think it's just a demographic/hormonal thing. Watching my brother and knowing myself though I think aspies probably have a tendency, despite what we express, to be postively servile and dangerously adoring of partners, probably to our own detriment. At least initially. I imagine once the relationship seems secure we can fall into the alone time/special interest ruts and not be attentive enough to a partner's needs. And if that partner has illusions that we will be anything but spectrum, ever, I suppose it could be really disappointing for them.



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25 Mar 2010, 4:39 pm

zen_mistress wrote:
PLA wrote:
I haven't had many opportunities to attend or nurse someone ill. I've had some experiences, and it was generally good, but I still haven't had a chance to hold someone's hair back while they "pray before the porcelain goddess". I'd like to do that sometime.


I have ( 3 times) and I was surprisingly ok at it. Once I nursed a girl who was 5 inches taller than me but nearly passing out drunk, I had to hold up her entire body with one arm and keep her head over a bucket with the other. Alcohol and party pills= bad birthday party.

Ouch, alcohol typically doesn't mix well with other "fun" substances.

Good to hear that it isn't surprisingly difficult to do.


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25 Mar 2010, 4:49 pm

alana wrote:
Watching my brother and knowing myself though I think aspies probably have a tendency, despite what we express, to be postively servile and dangerously adoring of partners, probably to our own detriment.


Seriously, this is the second time I'm hearing about this "adoration" and oh so unfortunately, not in my experience. I've been involved with approximately 2 1/2 Aspies (I cannot explain the 1/2 Aspie - it's too weird), and almost married one of them. Never, not once, did I get the impression I was adored. As a matter of fact, when my ex-fiance told me he cried when I left, I was stunned - I was honestly surprised he'd noticed I was gone. (Although, I suppose eventually he had to notice, or face the prospect of starvation....hmm - where is dinner? where is dinner? where is the cook?! OMG, the COOK is gone! *weeping* women come and go, but a cook like that...) Well, you get the picture. :wink:


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25 Mar 2010, 5:09 pm

PLA wrote:
zen_mistress wrote:
PLA wrote:
I haven't had many opportunities to attend or nurse someone ill. I've had some experiences, and it was generally good, but I still haven't had a chance to hold someone's hair back while they "pray before the porcelain goddess". I'd like to do that sometime.


I have ( 3 times) and I was surprisingly ok at it. Once I nursed a girl who was 5 inches taller than me but nearly passing out drunk, I had to hold up her entire body with one arm and keep her head over a bucket with the other. Alcohol and party pills= bad birthday party.

Ouch, alcohol typically doesn't mix well with other "fun" substances.

Good to hear that it isn't surprisingly difficult to do.


It very nearly was a problem, I had to run to get the bucket and get her over it... just in time. She threw up a little on her bed too...


I think it can be either of 2 things, the aspie partner can be a detached sort of person, (actually some NTs can be this way too) or they can be very very affectionate.

Having a detached aspie type is like having a cat, sort of. A person who goes out with them has to be fine with how they are. Its doable but I think it can be disastrous if a person who needs X amount of affection gets together with them.


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25 Mar 2010, 5:24 pm

HopeGrows wrote:
alana wrote:
Watching my brother and knowing myself though I think aspies probably have a tendency, despite what we express, to be postively servile and dangerously adoring of partners, probably to our own detriment.


Seriously, this is the second time I'm hearing about this "adoration" and oh so unfortunately, not in my experience. I've been involved with approximately 2 1/2 Aspies (I cannot explain the 1/2 Aspie - it's too weird), and almost married one of them. Never, not once, did I get the impression I was adored. As a matter of fact, when my ex-fiance told me he cried when I left, I was stunned - I was honestly surprised he'd noticed I was gone. (Although, I suppose eventually he had to notice, or face the prospect of starvation....hmm - where is dinner? where is dinner? where is the cook?! OMG, the COOK is gone! *weeping* women come and go, but a cook like that...) Well, you get the picture. :wink:


yes, I remember you posting about that before. It sucks that someone felt that and was so inadequate at expressing that. I think my ex had/has no idea of the strength of my feelings that I still carry. there is this classic bit on Seinfeld where George is in a car w/ a girl after a date and she asks him up for coffee and he says "I don't like coffee." and the rest of the bit is focused on his facial expressions where he is slowly realizing she was asking him up for sex, and he just completely blew his chance. And that is the part of my brain I interact with fellow humans with so much of the time, and hours, days, weeks later I realize how I really blew it. I always am in the 'logical idiot' mode though, instead of perceiving mode. I can see how this can wreck a relationship beyond repair.



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25 Mar 2010, 7:37 pm

zen_mistress wrote:
I think it can be either of 2 things, the aspie partner can be a detached sort of person, (actually some NTs can be this way too) or they can be very very affectionate.

Having a detached aspie type is like having a cat, sort of. A person who goes out with them has to be fine with how they are. Its doable but I think it can be disastrous if a person who needs X amount of affection gets together with them.


Now that's an interesting analogy (having a detached Aspie is like having a cat). I can totally see that in my ex-fiance. He once said to me, "I love you so much, but I really wish you were a toy." When I asked for an explanation (umm, obviously) he said, "So when I've had enough of you, I could put you away on a shelf somewhere until I'm ready to play with you again." And then he really, really tried to explain how that scenario would be just perfect for him - like he really tried to lay it out for me. I just stared at him, and finally said, "I guess it's just too bad for you that I'm a person." But that kinda fits with the cat analogy....when it suits a cat, she'll come and sit with you for hours. And when it suits her to leave, she leaves. You can't entice the cat to come sit with you, you can't entice her to stay when she wants to go....that's not the way the kitty rolls.


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25 Mar 2010, 7:55 pm

alana wrote:
yes, I remember you posting about that before. It sucks that someone felt that and was so inadequate at expressing that. I think my ex had/has no idea of the strength of my feelings that I still carry. there is this classic bit on Seinfeld where George is in a car w/ a girl after a date and she asks him up for coffee and he says "I don't like coffee." and the rest of the bit is focused on his facial expressions where he is slowly realizing she was asking him up for sex, and he just completely blew his chance. And that is the part of my brain I interact with fellow humans with so much of the time, and hours, days, weeks later I realize how I really blew it. I always am in the 'logical idiot' mode though, instead of perceiving mode. I can see how this can wreck a relationship beyond repair.


Sorry, guess that's a bit of a sore subject with me....but learning about it now is actually a bit of a relief - at least now I get it. But when I was with him, I just never felt like it would matter that much to him if I was there or not. I don't look back on it now and believe that I was the love of his life, but I really was surprised he'd cry over me. I guess the moral of the story is to tell your SO how you feel - even if you have to write it down.

It seems like you're describing the hazard of a processing delays (although I don't see how "logical idiot" could ever describe you - you're a sharp cookie). I don't know if my ex-fiance had processing delays, but that's not what ruined our relationship. The whole time we were together I never felt close to him - never. And then after I left there was this torrent of emotion. I literally asked him where it was all coming from - he showed more passion for me after I left him than he had the whole time I was with him. It was very difficult to understand.

So, I think two of my 2 1/2 Aspies were "cats," and the 1/2 Aspie was the very, very affectionate type. Unfortunately, he had no business being affectionate with me....more crossed wires.


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25 Mar 2010, 11:17 pm

^ Its just hard to understand such a different mindset. He might have been feeling overwhelmed with social contact, some people with AS can only handle a limited amount of contact, and then need a lot of time to recover from it. His comment about wishing you were a toy was unfortunate, but probably that is how he views things, it doesnt mean that he didnt love you, but he possibly could only spend a limited amount of time with people.

If you require affection in a relationship then it is a good thing you arent with him anymore, as it doesnt seem as if he could give that sort of thing.

However, the setup with you doing all the cooking seems a bit unfair. None of my AS exes, or my current have ever had me cooking for them or doing their chores.


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26 Mar 2010, 4:07 am

HopeGrows wrote:
alana wrote:
I don't know if my ex-fiance had processing delays, but that's not what ruined our relationship. The whole time we were together I never felt close to him - never. And then after I left there was this torrent of emotion. I literally asked him where it was all coming from - he showed more passion for me after I left him than he had the whole time I was with him. It was very difficult to understand.



that would really mess with me, I have to tell you. how did you react to it? was there an attempt at reconciliation? I can understand how confusing that would be, I would want to throttle him.