Cyber spying/stalking, am I obsessed and a creep

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Thank you hyperlexian for reading and replying to my posts. I really do appreciate that you do care, even if we do not see eye-to-eye. I would like to share my take on what's being said.

Actually, just about anything can be debated (even really, really stupid things and you know they are).

I know you firmly believe I should respect her on this and you firmly feel I am doing the wrong thing. It seems that you really believe that there is nothing that she owes me, and I respect that. From a current legal standpoint, you are probably correct. Philosophically and ethically though, I have some different ideas.

It is debatable, and there are forums in which it can be debated, it is debated, and has been debated. I have debated it with many people and you might be surprised at the results. People actually sometimes even agree with me. Other people walk away saying that maybe she does. Some say I've given the something to think about. Few, after listening to my arguement, flat out say I'm wrong. Of course, these are people who love philosophical debate and will debate just about anything. Convincing ordinary people off the street of it is a whole other story.



Well, not in the literal sense nor the legal sense. But there is a theory that metaphorically where relationships have situations that act like bank accounts, a theory where emotions can be deposited and withdrawn. In other words, quality, productive, and effective relationships sort of take on these tit-for-tat qualities. If I am honest with you, it builds trust. I take time to listen to you, it builds trust. If I keep my promise to you, it builds trust. On the other hand, if you break a promise with me, not only does it cause me trust you less, it leaves me feeling empty. Then when you misunderstand me, the bank's been broken.

If you want to read more about the Emotional Bank Account, check out this link http://www.lifetrainingonline.com/blog/ ... ccount.htm



I very much think you are correct on this one. And I feel ashamed and awful about it. I blame myself.

I also wonder if she is a bit ashamed of herself though. I think she knows that she wasn't fair to me.

I want to set the record strait. There were several misunderstandings.

And why was she so freaked out? Why are people so freaked out? Common, get over it and listen to the person. People don't stop and think "What's the harm?"

And whether ethically she owes it to me or not, an apology would be nice. Keeping her promises would be nice too.

sure, anything can be debated. but it does not mean that all sides are equally ethical, moral, legal, or correct. you can only control your own actions - nothiong you do can change her perspective or influence her actions at this point towards any positive end.

what i am strating to wonder is... if a person does not create the tit-for-tat balance in your emotional bank (for example) in a healthy relationship with you, then why on earth would you want anything to do with them? you are hinting that she betrayed you and created bad feelings.. so that seems like enough reasons to want her out of your life. she will not atone for those things now (whatever they are), so it is necessary for you to find ways to restore your own internal balance - without her input.

it is freaky to be a female and to have a man creeping and/or stalking you, even if it is just online. and especially since you were already acquainted. you could easily find her in real life, and she knows that. the more obsessed and single-minded you become, the more dangerous you become.

she may be uncertain at this point whether you could do her any harm. or she may just be sick and tired of pushing you away and having you come back to try to find and contact her. or maybe she is a horrible human being who is mean and nasty inside. but... it doesn't matter. the reasons are not relevant and you will probably never know. that's why it's important to move on; you will really never get the answer or the relationship that you seek, so the futile struggle is unhealthy and potentially dangerous for either or both of you. no possible continued friendship will satisfy you regardless, because i think that what you really want to hear is, "i was wrong and you are right, i'm sorry i did you wrong so let's get back together," and that is not in the cards.

i can't believe, from what you have written, that you really wish any ill upon her, so there is no reason to keep pursuing her in any way. clearly she is becoming more distant because your continued attempts at contacting her are causing her distress. and the situation is hurting you too.

you can rationalize and try to intellectualize this situation to death, but it won't help you, ultimately. since you can't have what you want, can you at least move on with dignity and allow her to have dignity too?

I'm sorry. I see I'm getting very angry here . . . just like I got so angry with her.

It seems like my emotional bank account with the people in the forum is very depleted, and I apologize. I may not have shown that I've been listening.

Admitting to cyberstalking probably took a big chunk out of the emotional bank account. Not understanding what a social taboo it was took more out. For this I am sorry. Although I still look at her profile, the frequency is less and I don't obsess over it like I did. This may not be the results most people see as being best, but I'm working on it. I'm not perfect.

I have to ultimately decide on my own what to do. Whether or not anyone else is taking ethics into consideration, I have to do so. I'm asking the forum to trust me a little bit here to make a good decision. I have one advantage over the other people in the forum: I know her. I believe she was raised in a good family with morals and values. I believe that she really can be forgiving, even to someone who is freaking her out. However, I can also understand how she might want protect herself. I have to weigh this all and come to my own conclusion.

And even if I decide to contact her and people in the forum cannot respect that, I hope you respect my decision making process.

You were very wrong to fire your original therapist. Your therapist doesn't exist to tell you what you want to hear, he (or she) is there to help you function better, and get to the root of problems. Your therapist was completely right to tell you to leave this woman alone, anything else would have been a breach of professional ethics. I imagine you'll probably go through a few therapists before you realise the problem is in you, not them. Or you'll just give up on therapy altogether, because it doesn't tell you what you want to hear.

Yes, you are a stalker, and if not a creep, then certainly a bully. Leave her alone. She's done nothing wrong, or cowardly, in trying to block you, since you say yourself you're stalking her. You also say you want to make her suffer. That's not love, that's possessiveness. A woman is not an object to be owned, tracked down, hunted to submission.

I see from your last post that you are beginning to question your behaviour, and that's a good thing. The most important step you can take in your decision making process is to try to put yourself in the position of the other... and I know how hard that is for aspies.

I hope you learn from this experience, and grow through it. And I hope you don't get into trouble, because this could easily go nasty. However, you say you're looking at her profile less... that's a good thing.

I was angry when I originally wrote this message, but I've calmed down a bit. You see, I was a woman who was stalked. However, my stalker didn't display any maturity, and you seem to be moving on. I apologise if my original response offended you, and I hope that you stay well, and come to some peace. There are other women out there, and sometimes the most surprising things happen, when you stop trying.

God bless, and happy Christmas.

I'm sorry that you got stalked and someone treated you poorly. Seeing this must have brought up some of those memories. My goal is to tell my side of the story, not to bring up bad memories for anyone else. I'm sorry if it did.

Just to let you know, there were many things going on with my original therapist that caused me to find someone else, not just this issue. I am now working with a therapist who I feel much better about.

Saying I fired him was harsh. Maybe a better way of saying it would be that me and my first therapist came to the mutual conclusion that there may be someone else who could help me with my problems. Saying I fired him may not be a fair way of saying it and not fair to him. I apologize that it came out that harshly. I'm sure he's helped many people along the way.

I just get along better with the new guy. He's really not telling me anything different than the first guy, but he's more empathetic. He acts like he wants to see me rather than it's just his job.

Anyway, that's that.

I'm glad the new guy is more helpful. I've found that with therapists myself, some of them have an agenda, and that can get in the way of the therapeutic relationship. I reread your account, and I can see there were a few issues with him... hopefully the new guy is more open to your own concerns.

Anyway, since I probably won't get a chance to say later, have a good Christmas, if possible. Thanks for being so understanding.

Actually, I'm going to go out on a limb here, knowing that this might be an unpopular point of view, but as someone who has had someone do this to me 5 months ago (and who cannot let go), IMO there *is* a moral obligation to give a reasonable explanation, especially when you know the other person is an aspie and is going to have a hard time with this "it's not you it's me" stuff. I'm not saying it's okay to stalk and pursue someone to the ends of the earth when they don't want to be contacted, and certainly NOT okay to harm anyone, but it *is* reasonable IMHO to be a bit persistent about holding someone responsible for the pain they inflict when they unilaterally, without discussion, pull the rug out from under someone (which is what happened to me). Everyone is talking about moral and ethical stuff, but tell me, how ethical is it to do that to another person, leaving them to wonder what the hell happened indefinitely? I'm not saying it's unethical to DUMP someone, but rather to do it THAT WAY. Maybe we are aspies and maybe we DON'T pick up on things, but what is so bad about telling us what happened?

Remember that I'm not defending any particular action (fake ID's/profiles, phone calls, etc), but rather saying that there could possibly be unethical behavior on both sides here, and taking one to task and not the other is a bit lopsided. (yeah, I know, one asked and the other didn't, but still).

Kate

Are you at some level agreeing with some of what I'm saying here?

And once again, I'm not defending ALL of my behavior. I hope no one has ever gotten that impression.

Yes, some of it. I think making fake ID's, etc, is going too far, but it is not unreasonable to expect someone doing the dumping to recognize that they *are* inflicting pain and explain their reasons for doing so. They may or may not be good reasons, and the person is not obligated to stay with you even if they're not good reasons (which is what I think ppl are getting at with "she doesn't owe you anything"...which made *me* cringe...ouch), but IMO they *are* obligated to bite the bullet and act like adults and have a grown-up discussion about what went wrong. Anyone who refuses is a coward and deserves to be taken to task for the pain they cause. I do understand that this person may feel "creeped out" by some of your behavior, and part of that is her being female and you male. However, if you're not defending those things that go "beyond what's reasonable", I can agree with the parts of what you say that don't do that. I know how hard it is to "just get over it", and it does NO good to tell you to. I've been doing everything in my power to get over my rejection for 5 months now, and it just isn't happening.

~Kate

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way in the eyes of the law. The system is designed to protect the victim from any unwanted communication, sexual or otherwise. The moment she says "No, I don't want to talk to you" and he persists in trying to persuade her otherwise, it becomes harassment.

In the eyes of the law, the only right a stalker has is to disappear off the face of the earth and cease to exist. His relationship issues are of very little interest to a judge and jury.

I was talking ethically, not legally. No one has a legal right to communicate with anyone else on a personal level. I think people who do this (cut off contact with no or inadequate explanation) are cowards with little regard for others. Legally protected cowards, but still cowards.

~Kate

@Meow101, you raise an interesting point. Having a "grown-up discussion about what went wrong," is the decent thing to do....particularly if neither partner is concerned about safety or any kind of potential violence associated with that kind of a discussion. I don't know if that's really the situation here though, because the OP's ex did give him quite a bit of latitude before she cut him off. IMO, OP....I think you hoped that she'd be willing to keep you in her life until you'd come to terms with the end of the relationship. The problem with that plan is that you really don't know how long that's going to take, or how much of her energy and attention you'd require during that process. To go back to your debate on reasonable/unreasonable, I think expecting an open-ended commitment from her to help you come to terms with the break-up is unreasonable.

@Meow101, I'm assuming your situation is different than the OP's. It seems like the issue you're struggling with is how to respond (find closure) when your ex doesn't behave decently toward you? I can understand your anger when you say, "Anyone who refuses is a coward and deserves to be taken to task for the pain they cause." But the problem is that you can't really take the coward to task; you can't force someone to behave decently toward you. Either it's in their moral code to do so, or it isn't. And it sucks when it isn't - I grant you that absolutely.

It can be extraordinarily difficult when you realize that your ex is willing to behave in ways toward you that you'd never even imagine behaving toward them. But there really is no recourse. You have to surrender the job of "taking the ex to task," to the universe (or God, or karma or whatever). IMO, the deeds people do in the world - good and evil - are what comes back to them. Please let the universe take care of your ex - you have to put your energy toward your own healing. I think accepting that - at a very basic level - you and your ex were not a good match is a good place to start. (Clearly, you weren't a good match because you had profoundly different ideas about what defined acceptable treatment between partners....not a good basis for an LTR.)

So while I agree that you deserved the courtesy of a reasonable explanation for the end of your relationship, you don't deserve to stay stuck in the place you're in because he didn't provide one. People behave according to their character - it really has very little to do with you, or anyone else they encounter. I know it's difficult to hear, "Don't take it personally," particularly when it hurts so bad. But please, don't. Start working on accepting that you're better off without him, because you definitely deserve someone who values and respects you more than he did. Good luck.

Agreed, but the main focus of this thread is to help the OP realise that, no matter how entitled he feels to an explanation from his ex, it's not in his interest to pursue the issue. Either in practical terms or in terms of his emotional well-being.

There is nothing more emotionally draining than trying to get something from someone who doesn't want/doesn't have to give it to you; the best you can do is accept the person's wishes and move on; the moment you start taking control of your life again is when you start to feel better.

reading this makes me sad because i'm reminded of stuff i've gone through. i don't understand why someone must be so cruel to someone else just because they're "not into you".
if you don't mind me asking, what were the messages about? what did the last one you wrote say when you unfriended her? unless they were somehow abusive or saturated with creepy professions of love and confessions to stalking her, i don't see why she couldn't take 5 minutes to make another person feel validated and respected.

... on the other hand though, sometimes there are good reasons for blocking someone and ceasing all communication with them. i have actually been the blocker too. i knew a guy who would search my email address and name in google constantly to find various things i've written in various forums on the internet and he's bring up details of it in conversations like he shared that memory or idea about life in common. it was ridiculous. i was able to humor him when he messaged me about "loving" me even though he knew i didn't like him, but when he started making plans to move to my city and making it known that he was stalking me, i had to do what i did.

i recently had something similar happen with a guy where he refused to give me the time of day even though he knew i was hurting. i broke up with him because he was obviously losing interest and he unfriended me and refused to respond to my apology. it's the worst feeling in the world and i hope you eventually move on and and find someone worth your time. what you've done as far as internet stalking goes is within the realm of normalcy. i've seen much, much worse.

But it does no good to just tell someone that. I am *in* this situation right now and I can't just "move on". I've had dozens of people tell me that and it's like telling me to "just" move that 18 wheeler on the street with my brute strength. No can do. I won't do anything illegal, and I won't encourage anyone else to, but taking ppl who do this to task for it and holding them responsible for the pain they cause? Why not?

~Kate

Because you can't take them to task, Kate. You're not in a position to provide consequences to an ex - there are few exes who do have that power (some exes inappropriately use children, visitation, trips to court, withholding child support and/or alimony payments, trying to damage the ex's reputation, getting involved with the ex's friends, etc. to provide consequences). And when that power is used, it invariably produces a bad result for everyone involved.

There just isn't a way to hold them responsible, and trying to do that is only going to hurt you. It will just prolong living in the pain of the break-up. It's also possible that continuing to ask for a reason only reminds him that he's a schmuck for refusing to provide you with an explanation. Reminding him of his own shortcomings is likely to produce an angry, vindictive reaction toward you. More salt in the wound.

I think it would help you to realize that you're going to have to provide your own closure on this one. Even if that closure is tantamount to, "He's not the kind of person who cared enough to tell me why he broke up with me - and that only confirms that he wasn't worthy of me." It might also help you to remember that "moving on" is a process, that starts with a single step. It's not simple or easy, but as you get closer to emotional closure with your ex, you'll also be getting closer to creating a willingness to start your next relationship. Good luck.