I go fishing. How do I reel them in?

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The first time you pick up a violin you will be able to make nothing but awful screechy noises with it. This will continue for perhaps the next 100 times. Eventually you will be able to play a song. Eventually you will be able to play a song really beautifully so that other people will want to listen too. Does the virtuoso violinist bemoan all those times he made nothing but screechy noises? No! He realizes that those stages are mandatory steps towards virtuosity...or even playing a recognizable tune.

So it is with relationships. I know you don't want that to be true but it is. You can't go from no relationship to marriage (unless you are in an arranged marriage, in which case love is not one of the considerations). A series of short term relationships, such as the one you had, are a necessary part of the learning curve. If you see dating a person you don't ultimately have a long term relationship with as a waste of time then you are like the guy who won't practice the violin because he doesn't sound like a virtuoso the first time he picks it up and refuses to waste his time making squeaky noises no matter how many people tell him the squeaky noises are just a necessary stage.

You say she broke up with you because you are boring. There is something to learn from that. Something you wouldn't have known otherwise. You now know that you need to find a girl with as low a need for excitement as your own. "Any girl who likes me" really is too wide a net. From this dating experience- this screechy violin noise of the beginner- you have learned (I hope) that excitement compatibility is important so you can tweak your search criteria somewhat. You will be most compatible with a girl who is as overwhelmed by frenetic experiences as you are and who sees you as a safe haven from the blaring world. Such a girl is likely to be doing very quiet activities so that can help you narrow in. And when you find her, it may not ultimately work out. But that doesn't make it a waste. It means you are in the sqawky but recognizable tune phase of playing the violin. And you learn something more. You keep trying and learning and eventually you have learned enough that you are ready for marriage. And I have no doubt you will eventually get married. But you need to learn more about who exactly is compatible with you and how to interact with her, something you can't learn without practice.

I wasn't my husband's first girlfriend and he wasn't my first boyfriend. This is normal. You are seeing it as "attempt...fail. attempt....fail". You need to re-frame it as "practice, practice, practice". That's why I used the musical instrument metaphor. You know your way around music. You know the importance of practice and the importance of rehearsal. Is rehearsal a failure simply because there was no audience? No! It's a mandatory part of making sure you know what you're doing. The same thing really is at work in relationships.

Perfectly put!

lets see if he, or anyone, listens

I still can't see relationships in the same way as practicing an instrument or learning some specific skill like that. Each woman is a unique person. That means, I have to start over from square one each time I try. If I were learning to play a violin, I could keep coming back to that violin every day and practice it. But once rejected or dumped, I can't just come back to the woman and ask for more "practice"... talk about creepy.

As for casting a wide net, what net is wide enough for someone like me? As wide as my own net is, it only produced one relationship. Narrowing it down is only doing a disservice to me at this point. The only other option is the equivalent of traveling into shark-infested waters and hoping that I don't get eaten by Jaws...

I'd say that there are differences and similarities between women. To carry your metaphor; some are like playing trombones, and some are like drum kits, and some are like nose flutes and thumb pianos. Learning any musical instrument can give you transferable skills. Learning one can give you a better insight into all music.

But if you aren't attempting to expand your knowledge of music, then you won't. And that's fine if you have no interest in music.

You don't talk about practicing because really, each experience of life is a practice, but you don't call it that. You're right that asking women for practice is wrong, it would seem odd. That's why you say, 'would you like to spend some time with me so I can get to know you'. Or equivalent. It's a semantic thing, but there you are.

Well put Janissy. Thank you. At least this post is full of genuinely good advice for future people who may stumble upon it. It is certainly falling on deaf ears with present company.

"College age" can mean anything from 14 - 95, nice dodge.

Not everyone is meant to be with someone. Some of us die alone. A complete inability to see things any way other than the way you have preconceived is one of the traits that usually results in this.

BOOM!! ! RIGHT ON TARGET. EVERY INSTRUMENT IS DIFFERENT, BUT THERE ARE SOME MUSIC SKILLS THAT ARE UNIVERSAL.
THAT SOMEONE WITH LIMITED MUSIC EXPERIENCE WOULDN'T KNOW.

I'm glad that we started some productive comments instead of just saying "I don't see how that will help." That is completely beside the point. If you don't want to share your situation, then don't comment on a thread asking for it.

Kilroy doesn't want to waste his/her time describing particular situations. Well, in the time it took for you to write all of the negitive Nancy posts, you could have written one post that acutally answered the question.

Traditional college age is 18-22. I'm in that range. That's as specific as I'll get.

So the advice that finally rang true to you is "practice"? The same advice that has been given to you since the first page of posts? So you are all set now? Got it all figured out? BOOM?

Excellent. Best of luck to you.

I thought even someone with limited music experience would know not be an ass and treat each instrument with respect, but I guess I should've known better based on the comments you've left throughout the thread.



When you put it that way, you only make us think you're 18 and are ashamedly so.

Are you?

I might be terrible in terms of proof to offer that this works, but then again its historically a lack of exercising these things for many years and the funny thing is I finally feel like its only catching up to me now:

1) Learn to not have fear of walking up to random women and dropping a cheesy ice-breaker. When you really think about it, if they aren't feeling you, and you walk away, they really have no place looking at you as if you're immature or that you did something low brow. The trouble is your very ability to do this is a litmus test, if you approach a girl with intent whether pass or fail its the appropriate way, whereas if you approach a woman with ambiguous intent or playing innocuous - it will end badly. When you can internally understand that they give guys no other choice and that they know they give guys no other choice, you'll have the ability to give yourself a pass on doing something that would have otherwise seemed out of character.

2) You have to learn to be ok with rejection. Most guys who aren't in the magic percentage who have girls chatting them up just on looks, build, or demeanor, have to deal with anywhere from nine no's to one yes up through nineteen no's to one yes. If you do some online dating and get used to sending emails out with no reply and getting a one in ten reply, you'll start eating away at the brain circuitry that forces you to see rejection as this absolute thing of personal invalidation. Especially when you start doing enough of your own rejecting to understand that you aren't dissing the girls your rejecting, that enough of them you even like or respect as people a great deal but they're just not your style or you don't see chemistry or good conversation being possible - you understand that going to a bar or club and chatting girls up is quite a bit like a face to face version of eharmony or okcupid or anything like that.

3) When you chat them up read their body language. If the gears are engaging and you feel like your words and body language are turning on their light switches - you have something. If they give you a very bored or distant look or, worse, give you the fading detached smile like they think your a weirdo - move on. Some may really judge you, most won't, if you come to know yourself well enough and be able to separate the basis of what your doing (ie. what it appears like vs. what it actually is in terms of absolute custom) it won't play with your head and you won't walk away feeling deflated or like a loser if it doesn't work. Remember: they don't know you well enough to be able to call your identity for you.

Past initiating I think we as aspies have a couple problems as well:
1) We tend to be set in our ways.
2) Due to having had hard lives we tend to be big on personal justice - ie. what's right is right, what's fair is fair.

Both of these need to go. If you meet a girl who really seems like she's it, you really need to be able to put self-absorption aside for her, really let her know you're there, and - here's the tough part - let her know that you'll metaphorically bow to one knee and make her partial master in your life. That's also a reciprocated duty by its own nature, agreeing to be 60 or 70% master over you means that she also makes you 60-70% master over her. Your in a sense putting shackles on and giving the other person very exclusive and intimate authority. If you are afraid to give them that authority - you need to learn how to let go of the things that are stopping you from giving them that authority.

This also means that when you do run into a girl who seems like a perfect fit, as billsmith said she's a very intelligent choice - geeky enough to relate to you if your a geek, attractive enough to where the physical contact and sex are greatly energizing, and where your own nervous system could make her happiness be your drug - that's a tough thing to come by and this is where the justice oriented thinking needs some slight reformation. If you run into someone like this on a dating site and they flake on you a bit, most of us - and I know I've been terrible at it - are great at saying "Fine - have it your way", pushing them out of mind, because they didn't apparently live up to a 50/50 expectation of an interaction that we felt was the proper meeting point where she gave you your dignity. The problem here - NT's who are single into their 30's and 40's are real professionals at this, in fact I would venture to guess that its one of the bigger reasons why they're still single. As a guy also try to imagine that from her perspective, where the biggest concern is dedication. To them I think it comes off as emotively stingy, detached, like you simply don't know how to love another person or are too justice/rules-based to have any clue. If you meet a girl who's all of the things at the top of this paragraph and she starts flaking a little, chase after her and put your need for dignity on the shelf for a minute.

When I say chase though don't chase in a creepy or "I need approval way", more in a dignified "I'm still interested in you, I believe I'm right for you, and I'm willing to climb the tower and slay the dragon" - essentially, often enough, you're dealing with her fears and defense mechanisms. When you're willing to do battle with her inner guardians and win - imagine how special she feels and then imagine how unique and invaluable your place is? This is exactly what I think people are missing, we're all complicated, for whatever natural reason or for brevity of protocol the onus has been put on guys. I firmly believe that if you know your role, know your duty, and know why your supposed to do what, the voice inside your head that scolds you for even thinking about doing these things will go away and you'll find yourself more unbound and more free to love. In a sense you have to get back in touch with your inner Antonio Banderas and say "Wow, she's beautiful. I need to have her" (probably better left silent than said out loud) and let that part of you do more of the steering than you've previously allowed.

That said, again, I'm brand new to the exercise of these concepts myself but - I realize that I need to make these changes and stick with them. It seems like, outside of just having incredible luck and meeting someone through friends who won't horde all prospects for themselves or chase them away, its the only way you can take matters into your own hands. The protocol and 'role' necessity seems pretty air tight in a lot of cases - I could find myself wrong on that as I get out and practice more, for which I'll admit I'm more than willing to learn and adjust my outlook accordingly, but it seems like if you try to make up your own way or your own style of communicating with the opposite sex which you feel fits you or fits the best of you, it simply won't work. That's a bit like trying to be original and avante garde with your SAT's or ACT's by filling in the bubbles with marker, crayon, or writing letters in the circles, you may feel that it authentically expresses 'you' better but - when the card reader gets hold of it and looks for number 2 graphite filled bubbles you still end up with a pretty steep F.

you're never going to get anywhere because you refuse to do anything or accept any advice, taking anything anyone says and spit it right in their face
that's the bottom line

jumanji, I can't give any advice because none of it would be of any use to you, I don't like sharing personal stories because someone thinks it might benefit them

J is absolutely right, anybody can just go out onto the social scene dressed up and clean, but you can never make anything happen without the cooperation of the people there - aka, a woman being interested in you.

When your the one giving advice, I am expecting people to act that way towards you.

but no one can tell you how to make people interested in you because everyone is different

Would it be possible for me to go to a bar, all dressed up, smelling nice and be approached by a woman?

In my experience, this is a typical NT "trap" question. If he says "yes", then he's admitted it. If he says "no", then you will consider this proof that your assumption is correct because he has not admitted the "fact" that he is 18, even if he is actually 21. It is unwinnable for him. Worse, he can't point out the unwinnable nature of this question because you would see that as an attempt to either dodge answering or to find a way of getting round the trap you have set him, thereby "proving" (again) that he is 18 and ashamed. There is no way he can answer this question without confirming your assumption.

Last edited by CrinklyCrustacean on 01 Jan 2011, 5:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.