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SoulcakeDuck
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27 Jun 2011, 7:48 pm

OK ok I will... stop screaming at me.


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TheygoMew
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28 Jun 2011, 12:49 am

hyperlexian wrote:
TheygoMew wrote:
I've heard the term "Woman up" or "Woman out" It ALWAYS has to do with weight. If a woman is thin apparently she's not a real woman and hasn't womaned up yet. It's a shame there is such an obsession over women's bodies that even women oppress other women.

whut? never heard that expression in my life, much less as an insult to thin women. do you live in an area of 90% obesity, so that a thin body stands out? cuz that's really strange.


I've seen it said on divorce court. The lady "woman outs" after having a child as if putting on weight is what makes you a woman. I hear several women calling women who are thin "boyish figures" even the ones with apparent breasts and a bottom. Women are just vicious towards each other and I think women are more oppressive to other women than men at times.



metaphysics
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28 Jun 2011, 12:54 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
yes it's a typical oriental mentality and I can't blame you, you are the product of your own culture after all. What I really find tragic in our cultures (the oriental cultures at least) , that man is a man and woman is a woman and there's literally no room for anyone to be just a bit human, you are either totally a gender or you're nothing.


"You are the product of your own culture after all", true.

I can understand part of the next sentence, but not all of it.



Mindslave
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01 Jul 2011, 6:20 pm

Whenever anyone tells me to be a man, I tell them to go f**k themselves. I've never once heard something like that from someone I respect. I respect people that respect themselves, and people that respect themselves aren't going to tell me to "be a man" (I AM a man, you dolt!) The only people that give me that are people with no job and no future. No useful skills, no ambition, no creativity, no sense of humor, no spine, no nothing. People I do respect say that, but in a more constructive manner.

As for "be a woman" every woman I've ever met that needs to woman up I never liked in the first place. Then again, most men like that I've never liked in the first place.



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01 Jul 2011, 10:56 pm

EGGREGUYOUS wrote:
Ok ValentineWiggin this is where I get genuinely confused, I do not see any of what I said to be considered an insult directly to women just to men. All men, and women know that girls are physically weaker and it's been said over and over in marriage and other crap that women stress over a lot of things and talk too much. So then it's a major fetching contradiction for a women to get pissed off when they hear that they are fragile and so on, when they are. So help me understand this if you'd be so kind.


You're not a sexist because you're a sexist?

Splain that one.


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01 Jul 2011, 11:06 pm

"Be a man!"

"Alright, I'll seduce you, bang you and leave you for a younger woman after years of treating you like s**t and making false promises."

My response to any woman who says that to me.



ValentineWiggin
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01 Jul 2011, 11:22 pm

Jonsi wrote:
"Be a man!"

"Alright, I'll seduce you, bang you and leave you for a younger woman after years of treating you like sh** and making false promises."

My response to any woman who says that to me.


That's a pretty accurate depiction of our society's construction of what it means to "Be a man", actually.


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Jonsi
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01 Jul 2011, 11:25 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Jonsi wrote:
"Be a man!"

"Alright, I'll seduce you, bang you and leave you for a younger woman after years of treating you like sh** and making false promises."

My response to any woman who says that to me.


That's a pretty accurate depiction of our society's construction of what it means to "Be a man", actually.

Which is why I strive to be in touch with both my masculine and feminine sides. :D



ValentineWiggin
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02 Jul 2011, 12:04 am

Jonsi wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
Jonsi wrote:
"Be a man!"

"Alright, I'll seduce you, bang you and leave you for a younger woman after years of treating you like sh** and making false promises."

My response to any woman who says that to me.


That's a pretty accurate depiction of our society's construction of what it means to "Be a man", actually.

Which is why I strive to be in touch with both my masculine and feminine sides. :D


The problem isn't forcing people into a dichotomy, the problem is the existence of the dichotomy in the first place.


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Rossc09
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03 Jul 2011, 11:30 pm

I think that women hear "Be a Woman" ALL. THE. TIME.
However, they don't hear it in those words.
Rather, women constantly hear:
"Be thin, eat right, exercise, get a degree, get a career, be independent, get a man, have babies, stay sexy, wear this, wear that, say what you mean but be nice about it..."

Women get put in their place plenty.



Gwenwyn
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03 Jul 2011, 11:55 pm

You know, I've heard OF the phrases 'man up' and such, but never really experienced them in real life (I mostly saw them used on TV). I think its just an oudated notion of what it means to be a man. How is a man a failure for being human? Why does being male mean one cannot express emotions, or have weaknesses? Its silly trivial stuff from a time when gender roles had more meaning.

But if I had to choose one for women, it would be... hmmm... "Passive up"? Naw... but something that expressed that women are or were supposed to be passive and subservient, weak, and so forth.

EGGREGUYOUS: The 'talk too much' part? For many women this is how they vent emotions. Studies have shown that men and women experience the same frequency of emotions. However, women tend to experience more negative emotions than men. This is also true for those who:
a. make less money or
b. are in a position of diminished power
Thus women may experience more negative emotions because, for all of the gains we have made, we are NOT treated as equals and we daily know it. If you would like I can find a link to the specific study I am referring to. Men, from my experience, are also quite fragile, they just tend to have a greater capacity for emotional management. I think its an ongoing atrocity in society that women are allowed or supposed to neglect this aspect of themselves (or on the other hand, that men are discouraged from a healthy examination of their feelings)



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04 Jul 2011, 1:07 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
1) Why do you think in our culture we have these phrases that clearly delineate what proper male behavior is, but we do not for female behavior?


Mainly because of womens rights. Women fought for their rights to be equal to men so its more acceptable for a women to be masculine then it is for a guy to be feminine. Dont get me wrong, we aint that far in womens rights to the point where its socially acceptable for women to be all out masculine. If she is, shes seen as butch, lesbian. Whereas if a guy is exhibits feminine behavior he is seen as a wussy, weak, etc. Its very offensive to the majority of guys to be viewed as "weak" and incapable.

Quote:
2) If hypothetically we did commonly use phases like "be a woman about it," what kind of behavior would the phrase imply was needed and can you think of a situation where you would use it?


That would imply femininity. Its telling a women to back down from power and be submissive which equals insulting. I mean back in the old days, people used to tell strong women to be more feminine, submissive, lady like. Back in the old days if a women exhibited power, she was seen as a disgrace to society.

Quote:
3) Can a woman ever really define what constitutes "a real man?" Or can other men be the only true arbiters of real manliness?


Idk. I think the idea of a real man is complete BS.



EGGREGUYOUS
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04 Jul 2011, 5:24 pm

Gwenwyn wrote:
EGGREGUYOUS: The 'talk too much' part? For many women this is how they vent emotions. Studies have shown that men and women experience the same frequency of emotions. However, women tend to experience more negative emotions than men. This is also true for those who:
a. make less money or
b. are in a position of diminished power
Thus women may experience more negative emotions because, for all of the gains we have made, we are NOT treated as equals and we daily know it. If you would like I can find a link to the specific study I am referring to. Men, from my experience, are also quite fragile, they just tend to have a greater capacity for emotional management. I think its an ongoing atrocity in society that women are allowed or supposed to neglect this aspect of themselves (or on the other hand, that men are discouraged from a healthy examination of their feelings)


Oh yes, I know that talking for women is the equivalent of a dude lifting weights to relieve stress, I also know women are constantly fearing for their life, criticizing themselves, stuff talks to them if it's out of place, multitask, they also don't know that men are not just hairy women.


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CockneyRebel
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05 Jul 2011, 8:43 am

How can I truly be a woman, if I wish to be a man?


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Gwenwyn
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05 Jul 2011, 7:48 pm

EGGREGUYOUS wrote:
Gwenwyn wrote:
EGGREGUYOUS: The 'talk too much' part? For many women this is how they vent emotions. Studies have shown that men and women experience the same frequency of emotions. However, women tend to experience more negative emotions than men. This is also true for those who:
a. make less money or
b. are in a position of diminished power
Thus women may experience more negative emotions because, for all of the gains we have made, we are NOT treated as equals and we daily know it. If you would like I can find a link to the specific study I am referring to. Men, from my experience, are also quite fragile, they just tend to have a greater capacity for emotional management. I think its an ongoing atrocity in society that women are allowed or supposed to neglect this aspect of themselves (or on the other hand, that men are discouraged from a healthy examination of their feelings)


Oh yes, I know that talking for women is the equivalent of a dude lifting weights to relieve stress, I also know women are constantly fearing for their life, criticizing themselves, stuff talks to them if it's out of place, multitask, they also don't know that men are not just hairy women.


Aww man, totally awesome. I will now imagine all men as hairy women. It will make grabbing their chests so much more entertaining... :P



DrManhattan
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26 May 2016, 8:59 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
1) Why do you think in our culture we have these phrases that clearly delineate what proper male behavior is, but we do not for female behavior?


Even in this day men are expected to be way more proactive, at least when it comes to dating. The notion that women are more passive, as outdated as it is starting to be, still causes this lack of change.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
2) If hypothetically we did commonly use phases like "be a woman about it," what kind of behavior would the phrase imply was needed and can you think of a situation where you would use it?


To survive, withstand misery and pain. But to allow and express emotions as well.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
3) Can a woman ever really define what constitutes "a real man?" Or can other men be the only true arbiters of real manliness?


Yes, anybody really, every idiot with a mouth or keyboard can do it. It's up to others how much they want to let it define their reality.