13 Apr 2012, 4:45 pm
@CrinklyCrustacean - a key difference between what you describe about yourself and the person I know is you want to understand, and are trying, rather than simply lashing out at your roommates. The point about "validating" their needs is profound. The guy I was involved with kept saying "I am not meeting your needs." Which, to me, sounded SO patronizing--and dismissive (like : and therefore we can't be together, and I don't want a relationship anyway--so we're done). I'm a strong independent person who gets her "needs met," or doesn't. And not having my "needs met" ---which sounds so passive, some little princess requiring someone to wait on her and meeting her needs 
--- is not the point. It is exactly what your mother's friend said about validating my needs.
Someone else doesn't have the responsibility for meeting my needs; I stopped believing that very early in my childhood, actually. But at least acknowledging or caring about or even trying to care about , or even pretending to care about my needs. That is the issue right there. My needs were interpreted ONLY in terms of a burden to HIM. Not in terms of how I felt. How I felt seemed to be so....uninteresting. The fact of my experience--rather than his---seemed to range, for him, from sort of boring to outright vexing.
Which seemed so baffling to me because he is uber uber UBER sensitive about his own needs. Why not be able to understand other people have equally valid needs (and probably actually have FEWER needs than he)?
That is what drove me round the bend. If someone is logical and good at "math" or physics or whatever, why can't they understand the same principles apply? Meaning, if a set of conditions applies in one situation, then it is likely (especially given evidence to support this) that the same set of conditions will apply to another situation. Meaning, one has one's own needs that are important, and which are NOT about being a burden to others; therefore, other people also have their own needs, which also are NOT about being a burden to others. Especially if evidence is present that this is the case (i.e., someone telling them they are also sensitive, they also have tender feelings, they also don't like their schedule to be disrupted by drastic non-communicated changes). Why is that? "Lack of empathy" just seems like too blunt a term. But is that what it is?
Not to be a jerk --really, I just don't know any other way to say this, and do not intend to be insensitive or unkind-- but when I was, say 4 years old, I remember my mother would occasionally get migraines and need to stay in bed. My brothers and I, looking back, had no compassion for her. We did not have the capacity to empathize with her, or her "needs." We had out own needs and that's about all we could manage to get our heads around, I guess. I wonder whether it is like that at all? A year or so later that was no longer the case, and I could empathize with my mother as a separate person. Not that I understand what a migraine was but understood at a "feelings" level that she wasn't feeling well. Not just intellectually, but I could feel it.
So CrinklyCrustacean, thanks again for your post. You probably know this already anyway, but roommate situations are SO hard for anyone. I commend you for sticking with it and doing your best. That's really brave and strong--and also super flexible---for you to stick with it. Many people have folded under the pressure of roommate situations. So, truly, good for you--you're doing great--stick with it as long as you can! And that's a nice story about the bottles.
__________________________________________________
AScomposer/Amelie - this discussion of "shutdowns" is illuminating. Thank you. It helps me (too late) to understand a bit more. As per Amelie, the problem with the guy I'm referring to is he either doesn't KNOW he's Aspie (I don't think he does) or doesn't care. It is all everyone else's fault. "I'm just here trying to live my life without drama."
There must be some consciousness around all of this in order for a relationship to work. My BF would/could(?) never ever have the wherewithal or self-awareness to say "I am in shutdown mode now." Or even, afterward, "When that happens it means I am in shutdown mode." Or if I brought it up, he would pooh-pooh it, and say I was making too much of it, that he simply went off the grid for 2 weeks (after a great time together--or, for that matter, an argument), because he was busy with work, why couldn't I understand that?!?! I tried to talk to him about need to have time alone and no contact---but he wouldn't "formalize" that, wouldn't acknowledge that there was a pattern for him, and that he DID have needs that if I learned what they were I could accommodate or we could together navigate.
So, there has to be a willingness ---in the way there is in any intimate relationship--- to look dispassionately at the issues when not in the middle of them and sort of chart a course. Not deny there's a "situation," and blame it on the NT.
The slash-and-burn thing is interesting to hear about. Cut it off, say horrible things, have a tantrum, and cut off contact. I sometimes knew he didn't "mean" it--meaning it felt almost like a seizure to me, and that he didn't "mean" what he was saying, that the anguish was real but that the over-the-top black-and-white hyperbolic language was of the moment, and it would pass and he would no longer "feel" that way. But it's hard to know. And when you break up, it's best to take someone at their word.
So, again, a measure of self-awareness on both people's part is necessary. If someone doesn't even acknowledge that there is a "shutdown" phenomenon----and gets angry when the other person is puzzled, hurt, and angry---there's probably no way it's going to work.
thanks again to everyone -- I feel better in some slight way, but also really, really sad right now but know a desire to understand has to exist on both sides.
13 Apr 2012, 7:46 pm
limeginger wrote:
If someone is logical and good at "math" or physics or whatever, why can't they understand the same principles apply? Meaning, if a set of conditions applies in one situation, then it is likely (especially given evidence to support this) that the same set of conditions will apply to another situation. Meaning, one has one's own needs that are important, and which are NOT about being a burden to others; therefore, other people also have their own needs, which also are NOT about being a burden to others. Especially if evidence is present that this is the case (i.e., someone telling them they are also sensitive, they also have tender feelings, they also don't like their schedule to be disrupted by drastic non-communicated changes). Why is that? "Lack of empathy" just seems like too blunt a term. But is that what it is?
No. It's not exactly "lack of empathy", but more a difference in communication styles. I think what you have to understand is that even though your needs and his needs may be the same, there may be different ways in which they should be expressed. For him, alone time meant, "Leave me alone, and sooner or later I will come back to you," whereas for you it was, "Tell me you need alone time and give me an idea of how long it will last, or at least ring me every so often so I know that you're still there for me." For whatever reason, he wasn't willing to compromise.
A similar thing happened between me and my flatmates shortly before the big blow up. What happened was that the flat needed a new vacuum cleaner. It was put on the flat whiteboard as something that needed to be purchased, and about 3 weeks later one of my flatmates asked me to do it. So that weekend, I went out, found the cheapest one I could (AND it was on sale!) and duly purchased it. A week later they told me off, because apparently I hadn't looked in a couple of shops and had ended up spending too much money. This was in fact a really good demonstration of how aspie logic can be different from NT logic.
My line of reasoning was, "It has been on the to do list for three weeks; my flatmate has asked me to do it; if I don't soon then I will be in trouble, and heck it's time we vacuumed the floors. What we need is a hoover that does the job but isn't too expensive, and it needs to be purchased ASAP."
Their line of response was, "You should have asked us before spending $260 because, even though that was the lowest price you could find, it is still a lot of money coming out of the flat account and we need to make sure it's not more than we can currently afford."
On reflection I can see that actually they have a very valid point, and I apologised to them and said I'd ask them next time, but I hope you can also appreciate that there is merit and logic to both our lines of reasoning, it's just that I applied one and they applied another.
Another thing is that, as I explained on another thread, sometimes NT behaviour conflicts with the aspie sense of logic. Instinctively, the aspie will try to understand the whole world through a perfectly logical and consistent framework, i.e. "If I do X then they will do Y." This is fine, but sometimes the sequence goes, "I did X and Q happened the first time, then N the second time, and F the third time" and that's when the problems start. Often there is no obvious explanation for why the outcome kept changing, and if there is an explantion, it may not always be logical. At that point either it's something the aspie will just have to accept, or there may be something which needs to be explained so they can understand that other factors may have played a part, and (s)he will need to take account of those next time.
There is a really good article, written by an aspie married to an NT, about conflicts of needs and communication here:
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.co.nz/2010/11/aspie-myths-he-wont-miss-me.html
This one covers aspies learning empathy:
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.co.nz/2010/07/article-on-matter-of-empathy.html
and a whole series of articles he's written, covering other aspects of empathy, aspie/NT relationships, and even how to improve them as the aspie, if you scroll down here:
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.co.nz/search/label/Relationships
He's a very good writer and clearly knows what he's talking about, so do give them a read.
13 Apr 2012, 11:21 pm
CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
limeginger wrote:
If someone is logical and good at "math" or physics or whatever, why can't they understand the same principles apply? Meaning, if a set of conditions applies in one situation, then it is likely (especially given evidence to support this) that the same set of conditions will apply to another situation. Meaning, one has one's own needs that are important, and which are NOT about being a burden to others; therefore, other people also have their own needs, which also are NOT about being a burden to others. Especially if evidence is present that this is the case (i.e., someone telling them they are also sensitive, they also have tender feelings, they also don't like their schedule to be disrupted by drastic non-communicated changes). Why is that? "Lack of empathy" just seems like too blunt a term. But is that what it is?
CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
No. It's not exactly "lack of empathy", but more a difference in communication styles. I think what you have to understand is that even though your needs and his needs may be the same, there may be different ways in which they should be expressed.
To turn around and echo your reply: No, It's not exactly "a difference in communication styles."
Or rather, my point was not about "a difference in communication styles," (altho' of course that is also true; it was just not my point).
What I said was simply this: if someone [e.g., an Aspie] can understand that he has his "own needs that are important, and which are NOT about being a burden to others" what is the impediment in understanding that "other people also have their own needs, which also are NOT about being a burden to others."
Given what other NTs have said here, my experience has also been their experience. The experience being that the person with Aspergers seems very aware of their own needs, but when it comes to their significant others' needs they were simply not terribly interested---or didn't seem to get at a deep level that the needs of "the Other" are 100% as legitimate and meaningful as their own. That was my only point.
CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
For him, alone time meant, "Leave me alone, and sooner or later I will come back to you," whereas for you it was, "Tell me you need alone time and give me an idea of how long it will last, or at least ring me every so often so I know that you're still there for me." For whatever reason, he wasn't willing to compromise.
That's probably a fairly accurate representation of the 2 perspectives. And I know all of this is very difficult to convey, or for some readers to get a clear sense of---but it is not that he wasn't "willing to compromise." Again, what the issue was: he could not understand that our needs were of equal validity and importance. He does not organically understand that other peoples' feelings are as intense to them as his are to him.
I heard him speak of many other people and situations---and he could NOT empathize. And didn't even VALUE empathy or compassion. Not that he was a "jerk," but he would just not try to step into someone else's shoes. It was like there was a note that was so high he couldn't hear it.
Further---and this is the crux----he did not seem to think it was important to try. That is what one of the previous posters was also trying to convey. A lack of recognition that there is anything wrong with not being able to value others' experiences and perspectives; they are simply annoying or perplexing. And that it is ok to see things that way.
Like---for me---let's just say if someone complained to me that I just don't care enough about golf. And they were going on and on about why golf, and should be important to me. Well, I don't care about golf. I am fine without knowing about golf. They could talk to me about golf all day and night, but I would be frustrated because I do not feel like it's important for me to care about golf. That is what it was like. But substitute the Aspie person for me. And "Other people's feelings" for Golf.
[sidebar----golf was a totally random example---and in real life if my partner loved golf and wanted me to understand his love for it, I would "go there."
I have developed many interests and appreciation of things that my SO's have been into---because it is a way to connect and if it means a lot to them I want to be able to share that, if they want me to]He would "get" that people would get mad---or have other "negative emotions"--about him, like sadness, or frustration, but not the ability to stand in their shoes.
Perhaps because he has been a semi-public figure for 20 years, and people are often sycophantic to him-----they regard him as adoring fans, and will put up with anything he says and does----so maybe he is no longer accustomed to people having usual expectations--or reacting honestly to him---or the expectation that there will be effort to meet people halfway. I know that's part of the reason he liked me. We connect on a creative and intellectual level. What he does for a living is cool, but I would like him if he dug ditches for a living. Blindly adoring fans are boring to him. And yet, they are around a lot, and he's used to that. So maybe that's part of it.
CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
A similar thing happened between me and my flatmates shortly before the big blow up. What happened was that the flat needed a new vacuum cleaner. It was put on the flat whiteboard as something that needed to be purchased, and about 3 weeks later one of my flatmates asked me to do it. So that weekend, I went out, found the cheapest one I could (AND it was on sale!) and duly purchased it. A week later they told me off, because apparently I hadn't looked in a couple of shops and had ended up spending too much money. This was in fact a really good demonstration of how aspie logic can be different from NT logic.
My line of reasoning was, "It has been on the to do list for three weeks; my flatmate has asked me to do it; if I don't soon then I will be in trouble, and heck it's time we vacuumed the floors. What we need is a hoover that does the job but isn't too expensive, and it needs to be purchased ASAP."
Their line of response was, "You should have asked us before spending $260 because, even though that was the lowest price you could find, it is still a lot of money coming out of the flat account and we need to make sure it's not more than we can currently afford."
On reflection I can see that actually they have a very valid point, and I apologised to them and said I'd ask them next time, but I hope you can also appreciate that there is merit and logic to both our lines of reasoning, it's just that I applied one and they applied another..
My line of reasoning was, "It has been on the to do list for three weeks; my flatmate has asked me to do it; if I don't soon then I will be in trouble, and heck it's time we vacuumed the floors. What we need is a hoover that does the job but isn't too expensive, and it needs to be purchased ASAP."
Their line of response was, "You should have asked us before spending $260 because, even though that was the lowest price you could find, it is still a lot of money coming out of the flat account and we need to make sure it's not more than we can currently afford."
On reflection I can see that actually they have a very valid point, and I apologised to them and said I'd ask them next time, but I hope you can also appreciate that there is merit and logic to both our lines of reasoning, it's just that I applied one and they applied another..
Interesting story. Definitely there is merit to multiple perspectives! Anyone who is with someone with Asperger's know this in spades. We have chosen to be with someone who we're going to have to work 5x harder in understanding their perspective than if we were with someone else.
And not to pick nits, the logic behind your decision is sound; but it's about 2 things: (1) context---if you all were wealthy and money were no object then your logic would be completely appropriate---but because the context is you-all don't have endless funds and $260 is not an insignificant amount of money (probably anything over, say, $150 would be significant), but (2) communication---I know this is probably hard for someone with Aspergers to totally "get," but I'm telling you the truth, for better or worse----even something as seemingly stupid or trivial or logical as buying a vacuum cleaner is a way [very minor but real] that NT's bond with each other. It's silly things like this that help to create positive relationships---and by "this" I mean doing some research about vacuum cleaners and how much they cost, and then emailing or telling the group what you found, what the range is, etc. NOT a lengthy treatise on vacuum cleaners, but "I went to the store, there were 10 vacuums---this was is the best price and on sale---I think we should go ahead and buy it. What do you-all think? Should we keep looking or is this good?"
They probably didn't want to have to live with someone else's decision---and having to absorb that amount of $$---without having been included in the decision-making process. Or at least a gesture indicating that you care about their opinion.
Even if you don't care, you can fake it. And again---it doesn't have to be over the top, just This is what I found. What do you-all think?
CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
Another thing is that, as I explained on another thread, sometimes NT behaviour conflicts with the aspie sense of logic. Instinctively, the aspie will try to understand the whole world through a perfectly logical and consistent framework, i.e. "If I do X then they will do Y." This is fine, but sometimes the sequence goes, "I did X and Q happened the first time, then N the second time, and F the third time" and that's when the problems start. Often there is no obvious explanation for why the outcome kept changing, and if there is an explantion, it may not always be logical. At that point either it's something the aspie will just have to accept, or there may be something which needs to be explained so they can understand that other factors may have played a part, and (s)he will need to take account of those next time.
It has seemed to me sometimes that things seem illogical to Aspies (and I have known and worked with many many many) are not strictly "illogical," but rely on attention to social "data points" whose nuances are perhaps imperceptible to them.
Quote:
It has seemed to me sometimes that things seem illogical to Aspies (and I have known and worked with many many many) are not strictly "illogical," but rely on attention to social "data points" whose nuances are perhaps imperceptible to them.
CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
There is a really good article, written by an aspie married to an NT, about conflicts of needs and communication here:
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.co.nz/2010/11/aspie-myths-he-wont-miss-me.html
This one covers aspies learning empathy:
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.co.nz/2010/07/article-on-matter-of-empathy.html
and a whole series of articles he's written, covering other aspects of empathy, aspie/NT relationships, and even how to improve them as the aspie, if you scroll down here:
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.co.nz/search/label/Relationships
He's a very good writer and clearly knows what he's talking about, so do give them a read.
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.co.nz/2010/11/aspie-myths-he-wont-miss-me.html
This one covers aspies learning empathy:
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.co.nz/2010/07/article-on-matter-of-empathy.html
and a whole series of articles he's written, covering other aspects of empathy, aspie/NT relationships, and even how to improve them as the aspie, if you scroll down here:
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.co.nz/search/label/Relationships
He's a very good writer and clearly knows what he's talking about, so do give them a read.
Thank you so much! I'm not a professional, obviously, but you seem pretty "high functioning" -- just from what and how you share.
As for me, I am burnt out on the topic for now. I feel as hard as I tried---and it was almost a constant effort---over the course or 1.5 years, really really really trying to scaleback my own emotional response to things, and to understand, and to accommodate, and scale back my needs and expectations, and not taking things personally, and perpetually suspending my disbelief, and dealing with slings and arrows of friends and family who said to run away---I'm tired. I am not bitter. We will be friends, eventually. I do care about him. I know not everyone is like this. But for now, I'm tired and I need to go off the grid myself for a while.
Thanks again for your---and other people's---very thoughtful posts.
14 Apr 2012, 2:29 am
14 Apr 2012, 2:40 am
limeginger wrote:
To turn around and echo your reply: No, It's not exactly "a difference in communication styles."
Or rather, my point was not about "a difference in communication styles," (altho' of course that is also true; it was just not my point).
What I said was simply this: if someone [e.g., an Aspie] can understand that he has his "own needs that are important, and which are NOT about being a burden to others" what is the impediment in understanding that "other people also have their own needs, which also are NOT about being a burden to others."
Given what other NTs have said here, my experience has also been their experience. The experience being that the person with Aspergers seems very aware of their own needs, but when it comes to their significant others' needs they were simply not terribly interested---or didn't seem to get at a deep level that the needs of "the Other" are 100% as legitimate and meaningful as their own. That was my only point.
Or rather, my point was not about "a difference in communication styles," (altho' of course that is also true; it was just not my point).
What I said was simply this: if someone [e.g., an Aspie] can understand that he has his "own needs that are important, and which are NOT about being a burden to others" what is the impediment in understanding that "other people also have their own needs, which also are NOT about being a burden to others."
Given what other NTs have said here, my experience has also been their experience. The experience being that the person with Aspergers seems very aware of their own needs, but when it comes to their significant others' needs they were simply not terribly interested---or didn't seem to get at a deep level that the needs of "the Other" are 100% as legitimate and meaningful as their own. That was my only point.
I see, sorry for the misunderstanding. Personally, I find it very difficult to accept something if I cannot see a logical, justified reason behind it. When I was a child my first response to things like this was, "That's STUPID!" and my poor, frustrated family would simply say, "That's just the way the world works." It's not ego-centricism per se, more an, "If it doesn't apply to me, why should it apply to anyone else?" That question is the flip side of the coin from your question of, "If things apply to him, why don't they apply to me?". I really don't know why this is the case, it's just the way our brains work, I suppose. In the case of your boyfriend (and I'm speculating here) perhaps that was what was happening but in a more rigid form: "When I'm busy I don't want to talk to anybody, including my girlfriend. When I am away from my girlfriend, she has other things to do (is busy) so why should I bother her?" Again, I'm not trying to defend your boyfriend, but this seems a logical explanation to me as to why he wouldn't do it. It does not, however, explain why he continued when you told him otherwise. That is illogical to my mind, and I can't explain it, sorry.
The good news is that flexibility can be increased by altering the rules that we have for interacting with the world. For example, I now have two more rules:
1) If I am not available for conversations and activities with my flatmates, they will feel invalidated and the flat will break apart. It's not whether we have a conversation, but the fact I am there and willing which counts. This also means that I have to be the initiatior in some things to reassure them that I am part of their group and not just hanging on.
2) I have to be prepared to go above and beyond from time to time, whether that's clearing out the bottles in the pouring rain or doing ALL the washing up (most of which was other people's) without being asked, because one of my flatmates is having someone round to dinner and there's a massive pile of it by the sink.
This is not always an easy process for me, but sometimes I just have to accept it and move on.
CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
For him, alone time meant, "Leave me alone, and sooner or later I will come back to you," whereas for you it was, "Tell me you need alone time and give me an idea of how long it will last, or at least ring me every so often so I know that you're still there for me." For whatever reason, he wasn't willing to compromise.
Quote:
That's probably a fairly accurate representation of the 2 perspectives. And I know all of this is very difficult to convey, or for some readers to get a clear sense of---but it is not that he wasn't "willing to compromise." Again, what the issue was: he could not understand that our needs were of equal validity and importance. He does not organically understand that other peoples' feelings are as intense to them as his are to him.
I heard him speak of many other people and situations---and he could NOT empathize. And didn't even VALUE empathy or compassion. Not that he was a "jerk," but he would just not try to step into someone else's shoes. It was like there was a note that was so high he couldn't hear it.
Further---and this is the crux----he did not seem to think it was important to try. That is what one of the previous posters was also trying to convey. A lack of recognition that there is anything wrong with not being able to value others' experiences and perspectives; they are simply annoying or perplexing. And that it is ok to see things that way.
Like---for me---let's just say if someone complained to me that I just don't care enough about golf. And they were going on and on about why golf, and should be important to me. Well, I don't care about golf. I am fine without knowing about golf. They could talk to me about golf all day and night, but I would be frustrated because I do not feel like it's important for me to care about golf. That is what it was like. But substitute the Aspie person for me. And "Other people's feelings" for Golf.
[sidebar----golf was a totally random example---and in real life if my partner loved golf and wanted me to understand his love for it, I would "go there." I have developed many interests and appreciation of things that my SO's have been into---because it is a way to connect and if it means a lot to them I want to be able to share that, if they want me to]
He would "get" that people would get mad---or have other "negative emotions"--about him, like sadness, or frustration, but not the ability to stand in their shoes.
I heard him speak of many other people and situations---and he could NOT empathize. And didn't even VALUE empathy or compassion. Not that he was a "jerk," but he would just not try to step into someone else's shoes. It was like there was a note that was so high he couldn't hear it.
Further---and this is the crux----he did not seem to think it was important to try. That is what one of the previous posters was also trying to convey. A lack of recognition that there is anything wrong with not being able to value others' experiences and perspectives; they are simply annoying or perplexing. And that it is ok to see things that way.
Like---for me---let's just say if someone complained to me that I just don't care enough about golf. And they were going on and on about why golf, and should be important to me. Well, I don't care about golf. I am fine without knowing about golf. They could talk to me about golf all day and night, but I would be frustrated because I do not feel like it's important for me to care about golf. That is what it was like. But substitute the Aspie person for me. And "Other people's feelings" for Golf.
[sidebar----golf was a totally random example---and in real life if my partner loved golf and wanted me to understand his love for it, I would "go there."
I have developed many interests and appreciation of things that my SO's have been into---because it is a way to connect and if it means a lot to them I want to be able to share that, if they want me to]He would "get" that people would get mad---or have other "negative emotions"--about him, like sadness, or frustration, but not the ability to stand in their shoes.
I can't explain that. I don't understand it any more than you do. Sorry.
Quote:
And not to pick nits, the logic behind your decision is sound; but it's about 2 things: (1) context---if you all were wealthy and money were no object then your logic would be completely appropriate---but because the context is you-all don't have endless funds and $260 is not an insignificant amount of money (probably anything over, say, $150 would be significant), but (2) communication---I know this is probably hard for someone with Aspergers to totally "get," but I'm telling you the truth, for better or worse----even something as seemingly stupid or trivial or logical as buying a vacuum cleaner is a way [very minor but real] that NT's bond with each other. It's silly things like this that help to create positive relationships---and by "this" I mean doing some research about vacuum cleaners and how much they cost, and then emailing or telling the group what you found, what the range is, etc. NOT a lengthy treatise on vacuum cleaners, but "I went to the store, there were 10 vacuums---this was is the best price and on sale---I think we should go ahead and buy it. What do you-all think? Should we keep looking or is this good?"
They probably didn't want to have to live with someone else's decision---and having to absorb that amount of $$---without having been included in the decision-making process. Or at least a gesture indicating that you care about their opinion.
They probably didn't want to have to live with someone else's decision---and having to absorb that amount of $$---without having been included in the decision-making process. Or at least a gesture indicating that you care about their opinion.
Yes, I understand that now, although I hadn't considered that decision-making like that could be a form of bonding. Thanks for that!
I think for me the gesture was that I had gone to the bother of finding the lowest price option and not just bought one because it was there. It stung me a bit when this did not seem to be something they considered important, especially since I had made the effort to do that because I wanted to do it right. Now I understand their perspective it makes more sense.Quote:
It has seemed to me sometimes that things seem illogical to Aspies (and I have known and worked with many many many) are not strictly "illogical," but rely on attention to social "data points" whose nuances are perhaps imperceptible to them.
YES! Or they aren't aware the "social data points" exist, so they can't look for them.
Quote:
I am burnt out on the topic for now. I feel as hard as I tried---and it was almost a constant effort---over the course or 1.5 years, really really really trying to scaleback my own emotional response to things, and to understand, and to accommodate, and scale back my needs and expectations, and not taking things personally, and perpetually suspending my disbelief, and dealing with slings and arrows of friends and family who said to run away---I'm tired. I am not bitter. We will be friends, eventually. I do care about him. I know not everyone is like this. But for now, I'm tired and I need to go off the grid myself for a while.
No, that's totally fair. I'm sorry you had such a rough ride and I'm glad to hear you aren't bitter.
Quote:
Thanks again for your---and other people's---very thoughtful posts.
Thank you for asking, and for trying to understand.
14 Apr 2012, 7:37 pm
16 Apr 2012, 12:48 am
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