Have you ever dated a psychopath/narcissist?

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I'm convinced that AS and NPD aren't mutually exclusive, no matter what the experts think. I'm not insisting she was a narcissist, but that the same self-deluding, infuriating mind f*** that characterizes narcissism can be seen at times in the aspie population. I've been verbally attacked, horribly, by people with an AS dx. By their own admittance, they knew what they were doing. When I broke it off with them, they blamed me with completely twisted logic. It was just unbelievable.

But whatever this woman's trip was, I'm sorry about she did to you. Sounds like she jaded your whole concept of romance.

Yes, I've been in a relationship with someone who had definite DSM-IV-TR Cluster B personality disorder traits, selecting from among the histrionic, narcissistic, borderline, and a bit of antisocial types. She's not a criminal (well, technically she has lied under oath before, but that's all I'm aware of), murderer, or rapist; but she has some definite sub-criminal psychopathic characteristics in full, stinking bloom.

• Egocentric, grandiose sense of self-worth: She is conceited and sees herself as prettier, more desirable, and smarter than others. She does not apply the same standards to her own behavior that she expects/demands of others. Her things are simply "the best."
• Pathological lying: Just about every conversation I had with her contained at least one lie, even if it only lasted a minute. Sometimes the lies were outlandish and unbelievable, but she persisted with them, sometimes to create drama, sometimes for no reason whatsoever.
• Shallow affect: She can employ a dramatic, emotional style, even while lying her ass off, to the extent where I almost believed her even though I had experienced the facts first hand. She more or less wants her life to be like a reality TV show.
• Callousness/lack of empathy: When I was deeply depressed, she only angrily berated me. When I told her most people would be more sympathetic, she only said, "I'm not most people."
• Poor behavioral controls: She has a short temper and gets angry easily.
• Superficial charm: She was much nicer to me when I first met her; I had fallen in love with her before she started doing and saying rotten things. To her family and some of her friends, she puts up this façade of being a caring, Christian woman. She's wild and uninhibited with her drinking buddies, living a sort of double life.
• Promiscuity: In college, she was in a sorority and slept around a lot. She's quite physically attractive yet has little standards.
• Alcohol and other substance abuse: She was a binge/heavy drinker and a heavy cigarette smoker. She's tried marijuana and by now probably cocaine too. She partied a lot.
• Proneness to boredom/need for external stimulation: She likes to create drama, presumably to make her life more exciting even at others' expense.
• Sensation seeking: She's gone sky diving, drunk heavily, slept around, etc.

It did not go well, but I'm not getting into details.

Dated a narcissistic girl once. Did not go well. Got cheated on, too, which is no fun.

I think I can understand what you're saying, that we tend to exhibit some tendencies like narcissists do, without "having" NPD. To use an example from current pop culture, Sheldon and to some extent probably Howard from The Big Bang Theory show this kind of narcissism, needing to feel like they are the smartest in their fields, and to have others take care of and almost worship them for their greatness.

I'm starting to think that the distinction really is intent--aspie "narcissists" are that way because we have grown up relating to the world in a certain manner, and expecting certain things from others, and lack the emotional flexibility to "unlearn" this pattern. We don't understand the emotional outlook of the people who are willing to play second fiddle to us, so we can take them for granted. Whereas from the descriptions on here, true narcissists do not suffer from a lack of understanding of others' emotions.

Also, the true narcissists are more likely to construct their grandiose ambitions out of lies, whereas for us aspies it's very real--we have often grown up actually being the person in our lives who put way more effort into developing a particular skill than everyone else. I still struggle with figuring out how to not need to always be right when dealing with other smart people, but the need is to actually be right rather than convince others (and certainly not through deception) that I'm right.

Why put a label of narcissism on a person who simply doesn't give a f**k for anybody except themself? Why analyze them? Are you fool enough to think they will change? You like lickin' lava. Stay away from people like this!!

I'm not quite sure I understand your post but I think I get it.
In my case it was due to problems I've had with others like being bullied or assuming others were bulling me along with lots of other things. I was a little misanthropic & was suffering form a psychotic depression & a little paranoid. I believed that people in general were bullies, users, abusers, liars, cheaters, mindless sheep who fallowed others, they were bad bad, evil ect; I believed that I was good, honest, real, & I had a self-righteous attitude. When I saw someone who was less popular on a forum having disagreements with members who were popular; I assumed the unpopular member was being bullied & I felt a need to try to defend them. I believed that I was better than most because I was good & most were bad When it came to romantic relationships. I believed women should of loved me because I was a great honest real guy where as most were abusive cheating liars; the women were rejecting me because they were bad or too stupid to realize how great catch I was

Hmm, the only common judgment between us about the general public is that they are mindless sheep--other than that we're quite different. I often tend to see others as preoccupied with petty things, and as valuing maturity and/or toughness over brilliance and ambition. At the same time, I benefit from the others' lower ambition if they are willing to take care of routine things so that I can spend time pursuing the profound.

I was not bullied that much, and was generally quite resilient to bullying, since I genuinely had no real desire to fit in. Therefore, rejecting me was not enough--they had to actually interfere with my life, e.g. by destroying things I had built. When it came to that, as a kid I could get quite disinhibited when angry and was unafraid to respond with physical force.

I'd think the issue may be similar, though, in that we learned to judge everyone based on a particular way in which we felt superior, while having a lesser awareness of the admirable qualities in others that we may lack.

Ive dated crazy women who were addicted to lying and complexity. I don't think they would qualify as sociopaths. But something was wrong with at least one of them.

That could be it.
BTW I'm NOT like that anymore except maybe sometimes for brief periods when I'm very stressed, upset or frustrated about something. I despise the person I was then

I had some relations with someone with nariscisstic personality traits. Yet, it did not include a formal romantic relationship. Fortunately and unfortunately, my idiosyncracies tend to preclude most people from forming a relationship with me. In any case, I think it is difficult to understand the way cluster B personality traits may manifest. From my perspective, in particular, personality traits, in the long term sense, tend to emerge and evolve in a diffuse way from adolescence through adulthood. And so, without a thorough exploration of an individual's past and present difficulties, it is likely impossible to discern whether or not someone is, in an absolute sense, struggling with a personality disorder. Having said that, my experience with someone, who was formally diagnosed with narcissitic personality disorder, is that the individual's sense of self seemed to oscilate between a very intense sense of fragility (i.e., sensitivity to preceived criticism) and a sense of superiority (i.e., grandiosity). This aforementioned oscilation occured in correlation to a given social context. For example, when around someone who would pay heed to the indivdiual's need for constant gratification, this person was the center of attention (i.e., the life of the party). However, when around someone who would not indulge the individual's need for recognition, this person would ostracise or outright reject them. It seemed that in the context of complex social contexts, this individual would go to enormous lengths to control the relational scene in an effort to stabilize and foster a congruent sense of self (i.e., keep some people very close and actively exclude others). Given my tendency to be socially ostracized (i.e., on the outside looking in), it is rather amusing to observe this relational pattern within unstructured social settings. In this case, at times, I'm glad to be on the outside.

But this sounds vaguely like a lot of things, for instance latent bipolar tendencies, and/or the way a lot of us aspies are. When we're in an environment that values our special interests, or when we discover something rewarding and profound using those interests, we can feel very confident, but in the humdrum, workaday world, or even more dramatically in an unstructured social setting, we can feel like a fish out of water.

It's because I keep hoping she will realize that her ideas make absolutely no sense, and she will divorce the guy she married (for all the wrong reasons), and consider me again.

Indeed. My description was vague. Without a specific detailed description of a situation (i.e., a thorough historical context), it is difficult to highlight the differences between many different categories of the DSM. Hence, why people recommend not using the DSM like a checklist. With regard to Bipolar disorder, I think that individuals who experience Bipolar disorder tend to experience manic and/or depressive episodes that do not occur in direct response, and in ongoing correlation, to environmental stressors. It seems that often people seem to get confused between Borderline Personality Disorder and Bipolar Disorder. With regard to Aspergers, from my experience, my sense of self does not oscilate with the same level of intensity that someone with narcissim may experience. Furthermore, when I am confronted with complex social situations that threaten my sense of self (i.e., bullying...etc), I do not try to exclude or blame others as a means to stabilize my sense of self. And so, for the most part, I do not tend to go to any great effort to control my social environment (i.e., when in unstructured social gatherings, I simply fade to the background. I don't spend any time trying to control my social environment. When an opportunity arises to speak to my interests, I'll participate.). In this way, I tend to withdraw into my own internal world, whereas, someone with cluster B personality traists may make frantic attempts, sometimes successful and sometimes not, to exert control over their external world. Hopefully that makes sense.

right, and that seems really unhealthy for you. she was clearly unreasonable yet you are still attached to her. have you stopped to think what you are gaining from holding onto the hope, as opposed to what you are missing out on? your love life and happiness are on hold while you still hope for something that sounds like it caused you pain when you were experiencing it. nobody else can convince you that you are better off with someone who treats you better, but therapy could help you to value yourself more.

It's because there are no other Aspies that have the same interests, religious beliefs, or sex drive (which is very high) as me. As for politics, I have no problem dating someone who votes Democratic, but the political left assumes that I am intolerant because I am a Christian and a Republican.

maybe approach dating with less of a checklist and more of a means of seeking connections with people.

it's possible to date or marry someone with different ideas (religion is the hardest one to compromise though), as long as you are both open-minded. one or both of you might change some of those ideas with time, for example people are usually more willing to try new ideas in the bedroom after they are more comfortable and trust their partner more. so you can't totally judge how a person is at the starting gate and decide they are not suitable for you, because some of those ideas could change. politics and sex drive can and will change radically over a person's lifetime.

that woman from before was clearly unsuitable for you even though she ticked off the boxes, so that right there is a huge red flag that your checklist is not working for you.